Hogan and Gilly Prove Bills Scouting Superiority

[Mr. WEO]

 

What I do is challenge groupthink. There is a habit around here to oversimplify things, like the way you fawn over the Patriots because they win. Their drafting has been no better than the Bills the last five years, as was pointed out in another thread. They let good players walk too. They whiff as much as they hit. The big difference is Tom Brady and whatever secret system they use to gain an advantage.

 

 

 

Oy. No "groupthink" there, right?

 

Aaron Rodgers is a great QB, so is Brees. Where are all their rings?

[dave mcbride]

If he can hit on a QB and a HC his teams will be much, much better. It's his only downfall imo. He has bolstered the talent level on the team 10 fold since he's been GM. Results aren't there because he hasn't been able to acquire a good qb and HC. We saw how good the defense was under Schwartz. We saw how good Schwartz's defense was in philly last year with a good DL, solid LBs and safeties......not very good. The talent Whaley put together on that team was good enough for a deep playoff run......if he had a qb and a HC. After a couple years of accumulating talent like that, you're bound to lose some of the good players. It's inevitable. We lost some good players this offseason, now he has to fill the holes again. He built up the talent on the team before, I believe he will do it again. But ultimately, he will need to field a good qb and a good HC in order to keep his job imo Hopefully McD is the HC. I doubt TT will ever be the qb, so I hope he can land that qb this year or next or he may get the axe

 

Can't wait to see how the Pats do when Brady retires.

Philly's defense was the fourth best in the league, up from 17th the year before. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

 

Bear in mind that they played the hardest offensive schedule in the league. They were excellent.

Edited April 25, 2017 by dave mcbride

[yungmack]

In November 2012 Hogan was cut by the Dolphins, Bills pick him up for free in October on a modest contract he contributes although minimally for years here and leaves. The Pats pay an average of 4 million per year for the guy we got for a minimum contract yet Whaley is a moron Hoodie is a genius. In September 2015 Dolphins release Mike Gillislee, Bills pick him up for absolutely nothing get a few years of production and a bunch of touchdowns. He leaves with a replacement already in place. Pats give us a 5th round pick in a crazy deep draft and pay him ten times what we did, Whaley is an idiot Belichick is the second coming. In 2012 The Bills draft S. Gilmore at 10 give him a 4 year 12 million dollar contract. He's a good player that no one would confuse with Richard Sherman, Patrick Peterson, or Revis (maybe now but not in his prime). From 2012-2016 Pats draft 8 DBs, not one of them got anything close to a 5 year 65 million dollar contract but someone did, yup Stephon Gilmore draftee of the "worst GM in the league". Whaley may not be the fav of local media (which I assume is due to the fact that he has something to do with crushing their former sources) or some percentage of fans, but he clearly has some major admirers in New England, and in the front offices of many other NFL teams I'd bet. Be careful what you wish for Bills fans, Whaley is by far the best GM that's been here since Bill Polian and this may be the year he proves to be in the upper 20% if we get 2 or 3 contributors in this draft which is very realistic.

Now you've done it, and that extremely vocal minority of supposed Bills fans who hate Whaley will be after your scalp. And should they and their insufferable comrades in the Buff media succeed in getting him run out of town, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if BB and Kraft grabbed him immediately.

[Mr. WEO]

Now you've done it, and that extremely vocal minority of supposed Bills fans who hate Whaley will be after your scalp. And should they and their insufferable comrades in the Buff media succeed in getting him run out of town, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if BB and Kraft grabbed him immediately.

 

 

This has to be sarcasm....right??

[John from Riverside]

 

Oy. No "groupthink" there, right?

 

Aaron Rodgers is a great QB, so is Brees. Where are all their rings?

at Belechek's house

[Mr. WEO]

at Belechek's house

 

Or Putin's...

[dbflaBill]

You definitely bring in different players for different schemes. 4-3 3-4 run heavy offense west coast stuff like that. McDeromott mentioned that he and Whaley work together every day on personnel Wrex said the same and we all remember the rumors about Marrone storming out of the room on the Watkins pick

Keep drafting specifically for a coach and this is what it gets you. 18years and no playoffs. Yes they work together, and when it comes down to a player thats a toss up the GM may go with what the coach wants. In the end its the GM job to find talent, the coaches job to coach talent. If everyone does their job you can put together a solid squad. Scouts spend their lives perfecting their craft. As do coaches. Coaches coach, scouts scout players play.

[John from Riverside]

Keep drafting specifically for a coach and this is what it gets you. 18years and no playoffs. Yes they work together, and when it comes down to a player thats a toss up the GM may go with what the coach wants. In the end its the GM job to find talent, the coaches job to coach talent. If everyone does their job you can put together a solid squad. Scouts spend their lives perfecting their craft. As do coaches. Coaches coach, scouts scout players play.

I just want to point out that I dont feel Shaq Lawson (or Ronald Darby for that matter) were drafted specifically for Rex Ryan

 

Shaq Lawson looks like he might actually be a better fit in a 4-3 then a 3-4

[JM2009]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2017/04/25/grading-2014-nfl-draft-raiders-browns-derek-carr-khalil-mack-johnny-manziel-odell-beckham/100687400/?hootPostID=32ac7c1d9d6ad89e7c925318b3345fa0#

D
Buffalo Bills: Sammy Watkins, the fourth overall pick, has shown flashes when he's been healthy enough play. But the decision to take him looks less appealing given Mike Evans, Odell Beckham and Brandin Cooks were among the options at receiver. Second-round T Cyrus Kouandjio was outshone by seventh rounder Seantrel Henderson until the latter was waylaid by Crohn's disease and drug suspensions. Third-round LB Preston Brown has been the group's most dependable member.

[TC in St. Louis]

In my opinion, Tom Brady is the only reason the Pats have continued to dominate. There is a domino effect to his presence....the team is able to sign lots of veterans who believe they'll get a ring. I also believe Brady's career is soon to end. That's why they're loading up on talent....for one last run. Brandin Cooks, Gilmore, even Gilislee to some extent have been signed for the stretch run.

 

I wonder sometimes how great Gronk would have been had we taken him instead of New England.

 

We've been handicapped for years being in the same division with Brady. Most years we can count on two losses. We have not been able to overcome that. And the Patriots cheat. There's a lot going on over there but they are running out of time.

 

To the original topic: Whaley gets a bad rap for things that may not have been his doing. Last year's draft, for example, started out looking great. Lawson and Ragland....potential beasts there.....we all know what happened with Lawson, but Ragland's injury was just one of the costs of doing business. Listenbee....wonder how that guy will turn out if he's healthy? That's half the draft right there. Did he sign Tyrod? That actually may have been his best move. Check out Taylor's highlight reel. Last year he was throwing to stems and seeds out there. We need to equip him with some weapons and see what he can do.

 

This is a key year. If Lawson and Ragland can play to their potential, it will be akin to having 3 first round picks. If I were in charge, I'd trade down a few times and get as many picks as possible. There is plenty of talent in the first 3 rounds. One guy I love (not personally) is the tight end from Miami. I actually like the idea of Peppers roaming the defense, and his stock is falling. I'd pass on the early round quarterbacks, but I'd pick up Peterman and Chad Kelly.

 

It's a good thing I'm not in charge of things. Although if you trace my history, you'll see last year I recommended Dak Prescott, and a few years back I was all over Russell Wilson.

Edited April 25, 2017 by TC in St. Louis

[Chris66]

Was thinking about this last night....

 

for all of the tar and feather posts....you actually have to be able to FIND the talent nobody else wants in order for other teams to come calling poaching them.

 

What is the patriots player development and retention strategy?

draft, sign veterans to 1-2 year deals and keep them playing for a contract

[Mr. WEO]

 

 

I wonder sometimes how great Gronk would have been had we taken him instead of Brady.

 

We've been handicapped for years being in the same division with Brady. Most years we can count on two losses. We have not been able to overcome that. And the Patriots cheat. There's a lot going on over there but they are running out of town.

 

 

huh?

[JM2009]

 

huh?

Think he means running out of time.

[muppy]

I just want to say for starters that the thread title hooked me in and now I'll read all the posts...#catchup #clevertitle #lol #yep

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Yes, you're a perfectly objective and neutral commentator who is only out to "challenge the groupthink." What a remarkable coincidence that you always fall on the exact same side of the fan fence.

Not surprised you think you speak for all fans. If it really was all Coach Tuesdays I wouldn't be here because you wouldn't learn anything. Thankfully there are intelligent posters who bring insight to TBD and make it great. But you have to take the bad with the good. Edited April 25, 2017 by PromoTheRobot

[Coach Tuesday]

Not surprised you think you speak for all fans. If it really was all Coach Tuesdays I wouldn't be here because you wouldn't learn anything. Thankfully there are intelligent posters who bring insight to TBD and make it great. But you have to take the bad with the good.

 

Yes, thank you for coming here to educate all of us. By the way, I see your act has worn just as thin (thinner, actually) over at Sabrespace.

[NewEra]

Philly's defense was the fourth best in the league, up from 17th the year before. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

 

Bear in mind that they played the hardest offensive schedule in the league. They were excellent.

 

I stand corrected. I didn't look at stats, just going off of what they did for my fantasy team last year. I was super high on them and they disappointed me....in fantasy.

 

The link doesn't work for me. I'm seeing philly as 12th in points against and 13th in yards allowed. I guess advanced stats could tell a different story though. I just wasn't nearly as impressed with them as I though I would be.

Edited April 25, 2017 by NewEra

[Pbomb]

In November 2012 Hogan was cut by the Dolphins, Bills pick him up for free in October on a modest contract he contributes although minimally for years here and leaves. The Pats pay an average of 4 million per year for the guy we got for a minimum contract yet Whaley is a moron Hoodie is a genius. In September 2015 Dolphins release Mike Gillislee, Bills pick him up for absolutely nothing get a few years of production and a bunch of touchdowns. He leaves with a replacement already in place. Pats give us a 5th round pick in a crazy deep draft and pay him ten times what we did, Whaley is an idiot Belichick is the second coming. In 2012 The Bills draft S. Gilmore at 10 give him a 4 year 12 million dollar contract. He's a good player that no one would confuse with Richard Sherman, Patrick Peterson, or Revis (maybe now but not in his prime). From 2012-2016 Pats draft 8 DBs, not one of them got anything close to a 5 year 65 million dollar contract but someone did, yup Stephon Gilmore draftee of the "worst GM in the league". Whaley may not be the fav of local media (which I assume is due to the fact that he has something to do with crushing their former sources) or some percentage of fans, but he clearly has some major admirers in New England, and in the front offices of many other NFL teams I'd bet. Be careful what you wish for Bills fans, Whaley is by far the best GM that's been here since Bill Polian and this may be the year he proves to be in the upper 20% if we get 2 or 3 contributors in this draft which is very realistic.

well said

[John from Riverside]

draft, sign veterans to 1-2 year deals and keep them playing for a contract

Sounds about right

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Yes, thank you for coming here to educate all of us. By the way, I see your act has worn just as thin (thinner, actually) over at Sabrespace.

Not referring to myself. Talking about Kirby, Yolo, Astro, many others I can't think of right this second.

 

But please, keep jumping to your own misinformed conclusions and insults. There's an audience for that too.

Edited April 25, 2017 by PromoTheRobot