BillsFan4 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 (edited) Patsies don't especially draft that well, imho. They work the draft especially well though, and it means that they can afford misses. I can't remember the last time they drafted a WR who actually was really good, for example. They also are prepared to use the extra picks they regularly get, in trading for guys who they know will fit what they want. For sure, that would be part of it, but you also have to remember, that it's a movable feast, in that a year drops off the list, and the most recent is added, every time they do this. Last year, with Lawson and Ragland mostly missing, is bound to hurt, and without looking at the detail, it may well be that 2011, was a decent year, so you get a bit of a double whammy on that. I don't suppose that Watkins missing a bunch of time helped, either. most likely because this year's rankings now excludes Dareus (2011), another pro bowl pick. Patsies don't especially draft that well, imho. They work the draft especially well though, and it means that they can afford misses. I can't remember the last time they drafted a WR who actually was really good, for example. They also are prepared to use the extra picks they regularly get, in trading for guys who they know will fit what they want. For sure, that would be part of it, but you also have to remember, that it's a movable feast, in that a year drops off the list, and the most recent is added, every time they do this. Last year, with Lawson and Ragland mostly missing, is bound to hurt, and without looking at the detail, it may well be that 2011, was a decent year, so you get a bit of a double whammy on that. I don't suppose that Watkins missing a bunch of time helped, either. most likely because this year's rankings now excludes Dareus (2011), another pro bowl pick.Good points. I hadn't thought about 2011 falling off. I just thought it seemed kind of strange for a team to fall 15+ spots in a single season. It wasn't just the Bills. There were a number of teams like that. If a team is truly good at drafting, I don't see how that can change so drastically in a single season, with the same scouts and GMs running the team (in most cases). Edited April 23, 2017 by BillsFan4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Pats last 5 top picks were 60, 32, 29, 52, 21 Give your head a shake if you are gloating they rank as poorly as teams picking in the top half the last 5 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Pats last 5 top picks were 60, 32, 29, 52, 21 Give your head a shake if you are gloating they rank as poorly as teams picking in the top half the last 5 years.... They picked Cyrus Jones, Dominique Easley, Aaron Dobson, Jordan Richards, Ras-I-Dowling and Tavon Wilson in the 1st 2 rounds. Wilson and Easley became decent players once they left, a couple of those guys are out of the league (Dowling, Dobson) and Richards and Jones stink. They've had some hits (Gronk, Hightower, Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins) but in general they haven't drafted well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 The pats are self-aware that they don't draft well but Bill isn't firing himself from his role in personnel and his circle of trust won't let him replace Caserio, who does other FO stuff rather well. That's why they tinker around with trades and FA so much. They'd rather just bring in guys already in the league who they have pro film on because it is less projection and more production based decision making. Their advantage is that FAs flock there and many will play for less. If they won't then Bill doesn't want them. No one else really has that ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGun12TD Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 So you're saying, the draft doesn't matter since the Patsies won like 50 Super Bowls since? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 They picked Cyrus Jones, Dominique Easley, Aaron Dobson, Jordan Richards, Ras-I-Dowling and Tavon Wilson in the 1st 2 rounds. Wilson and Easley became decent players once they left, a couple of those guys are out of the league (Dowling, Dobson) and Richards and Jones stink. They've had some hits (Gronk, Hightower, Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins) but in general they haven't drafted well. and again, who cares? they are doing just fine last i looked, and will for the next few years as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 and again, who cares? they are doing just fine last i looked, and will for the next few years as well... The topic wasn't "are the Pats fine?" The topic was "have they drafted well?" The answer to those 2 questions is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 The topic wasn't "are the Pats fine?" The topic was "have they drafted well?" The answer to those 2 questions is different. it degenerated quickly into the Pats are garbage and Belichick is worse; very quickly Read, it will help you in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 it degenerated quickly into the Pats are garbage and Belichick is worse; very quickly Read, it will help you in life. Feel free to go to the Pats board if you want to talk about them. You said that they "didn't have incentive" to draft well. I guess that was your way of defending your team's poor draft picks? They do a lot right but not everything. That was the point that I made (and even you haven't disputed). I mean if you want to make a case that Aaron Dobson was a good 2nd round pick I'm all ears. If not, take the L and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 Belichik all but admitted they haven't drafted well. I don't think he's even going to debate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 but but i thought belicheat was a genius? I said it in another thread and some dirtbags went crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Good points. I hadn't thought about 2011 falling off. I just thought it seemed kind of strange for a team to fall 15+ spots in a single season. It wasn't just the Bills. There were a number of teams like that. If a team is truly good at drafting, I don't see how that can change so drastically in a single season, with the same scouts and GMs running the team (in most cases). Yes, that big of a drop suggests a flawed methodology. Games played is one variable they use, and the 2011 class was a pretty good one in that respect. However, do they adjust it by number of players drafted? 2011 had 9 picks and 2016 had 7. Pick by round? Etc. even comparing picks in the same round is difficult-- Jacksonville's pick vs the Pat's for example. I wouldn't put too much stock in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 a good QB can overcome a lot of bad drafting but not if you're as incompetent as Ryan Grigson. Considering our failures at QB, Whaley doesn't look too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 This same article the last 2 years had the Bills ranked 9th. http://nypost.com/2016/04/24/ranking-from-1-32-the-nfls-best-teams-at-drafting/ http://nypost.com/2015/04/25/an-exhaustive-ranking-of-every-nfl-teams-draft-haul-since-2010/ How can a team go from 9th best drafting team to 25th best drafting team in a single year, especially when the article claims to be looking at the past 5 seasons and their own rankings had the Bills 9th in the 2 previous seasons...? Seems to me that they are mainly basing their rankings on how many games the Bills most recent draft picks played last season, and with the injuries to our top 2 picks that number is obviously very low. Or it could be that out of the last 5 years of drafting there were 37 players drafted, only 16 of them remain on the team (that includes 7 from last season.) Only one of those players is really franchise at this point in Glenn. Could argue Watkins but that is still only two players. We only had 4 or 5 starters out of those 16 last season. Some of them more due to necessity rather than being any good. Some of them may not make the roster this season. That's some pretty piss poor drafting. I have no idea how people can sit there and defend/support Whaley. He is one of the worst GMs in the league. bill blowhardchek is a 'genius' for one reason: he opens the door for his prom queen goat i pray with all sincerity he continues coaching after she retires just to clearly demonstrate why he has a sub-.500 record when his golden girl isnt playing He went 3-1 without his " golden girl" last season and went 11-5 with Matt Cassel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I was surprised USC had almost 25% more picks than Alabama between '05 and '15. Who knew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I was surprised USC had almost 25% more picks than Alabama between '05 and '15. Who knew? 'Bama guys have flamed out miserably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 'Bama guys have flamed out miserably I know of at least one would be better to not light up, so he doesn't flame out. (Albeit with tens of millions after tax.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 I was surprised USC had almost 25% more picks than Alabama between '05 and '15. Who knew? They were a pro factory during the Carroll years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 (edited) They were a pro factory during the Carroll years.they still recruit and develop players very well, they've just had poor coaching and dysfunction that set them back as a program. I think they are back on the upswing though. LSU has been better than USC recently but similarly they have all these pros emerge from the program and you wonder why they didn't win more. Both programs are recruiting heavyweights and now that they have some coaching stability we will likely see one or both in the playoff imo. Edited April 24, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 a good QB can overcome a lot of bad drafting but not if you're as incompetent as Ryan Grigson. Considering our failures at QB, Whaley doesn't look too bad. Good post that will get over looked. We have won 6,9, 8, & 7 games starting EJ, Orton, & Tyrod. How many more games should we be winning with those qbs? It's hilarious how hard people make team building seem to be. It starts and ends with a qb. I don't think Tyrod is good enough long term but that's about as good of a qb you can hope to get in free agency, barring a major injury. And the draft is a complete crapshoot. If Whaley gets a franchise qb, he will be viewed as one of the best GMs in the NFL. Or it could be that out of the last 5 years of drafting there were 37 players drafted, only 16 of them remain on the team (that includes 7 from last season.) Only one of those players is really franchise at this point in Glenn. Could argue Watkins but that is still only two players. We only had 4 or 5 starters out of those 16 last season. Some of them more due to necessity rather than being any good. Some of them may not make the roster this season. That's some pretty piss poor drafting. I have no idea how people can sit there and defend/support Whaley. He is one of the worst GMs in the league. He went 3-1 without his " golden girl" last season and went 11-5 with Matt Cassel. Matt Cassell took the Chiefs to the playoffs and they won 5 less games with him than with Brady. You kidding yourself if You don't think Brady isn't a major reason for the Pats success. That said, they get a ton of draft picks and hope to get lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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