JaCrispy Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 (edited) I'm not a big supporter of Doug Whaley, but what is your reasoning for this comment? Since he took over as GM, I can't think of too many players that were considered "reaches" where they were drafted. Certainly not at the top of our draft classes. Most actually considered Shaq Lawson and Reggie Ragland huge bargains last year. And how do you know what Whaley's reasoning is behind draft picks? As fans, let's judge Whaley by his results and not speculation. I'm not a big supporter of Doug Whaley, but what is your reasoning for this comment? Since he took over as GM, I can't think of too many players that were considered "reaches" where they were drafted. Certainly not at the top of our draft classes. Most actually considered Shaq Lawson and Reggie Ragland huge bargains last year. And how do you know what Whaley's reasoning is behind draft picks? As fans, let's judge Whaley by his results and not speculation. To me the EJ pick was a reach because the Bills backed themselves into a corner and forced their own hand to reach on a QB. Now, some will say EJ wasn't Whaley's pick because Nix was technically GM at the time of the pick. However, the draft board was set by Whaley, therefore making it seem ok to draft EJ in the 1st round. Furthermore, the "Whaley wasn't GM" point becomes moot when Whaley doubles down on EJ the following year. At any point after Nix left, Whaley could have said that EJ wasn't his choice to save his own butt. But he didn't. In fact, he went to great lengths to, metaphorically, adopt EJ, as if he were his own by building the team around him. This one action, combined with the sale of the team to new ownership on the horizon caused a chain reaction that sent Whaley to reach on the Sammy pick the following year imo. Now, just to explain, I think everyone would agree that Sammy was top 5 talent. However, to me, where the "reach" comes in was when Whaley included extra 1st and 4th rounders to move up 5 spots in the greatest WR class in history. It seemed he overspent when he didn't have to. I feel that his poor decision was founded in two flawed ideas: The first being that EJ was a franchise QB after an average-at-best showing his first season. The second being mortgaging the future for potentially, his last shot to make the playoffs for new ownership. Again, i want to reiterate, i have not heard this anywhere being reported, but just a perception of the situation that i have had, along with some other fans. And while this may be speculation, it is hard to deny that the Bills poor results in recent years could be traced back to these decisions. Edited April 22, 2017 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 I am sick of the QB class is weak bull ****. I listened to Gil Brandt yesterday morning and he again said he can see 4 in this class having good he also said the "wait till next year" is nad thinking as well. When was the last draft that produced 4 good starters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Fake news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Has to be the Bills...Whaley is the King of reaches and he knows a QB is the only position that could extend his employment...this is why he constantly makes poor draft decisions...his choices are always for the wrong reasons... Only if he got advise from your evidently crispy brain. Make sure you donate it when you are done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8billsfan Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Smoke screen. duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Only if he got advise from your evidently crispy brain. Make sure you donate it when you are done with it. Hey, I got an idea...let's hurl personal attacks because it's so much easier than adding an insightful post to the discussion....(sigh) How do I reach these kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Fresno State doesn't run an Air Raid offense. They run a traditional spread. A team like Texas Tech runs an Air Raid. I know you think they're exactly the same thing but they're not. The people I talk to who coach in college disagree with you. I asked about Fresno State's offense and was told it was Air Raid. I do get how casual fans associate the "real" Air Raid with Texas Tech. Many NFL teams do as well. It's how Goff went #1 but the Air Raid wasn't talked about as much as it is with Mahomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 To me the EJ pick was a reach because the Bills backed themselves into a corner and forced their own hand to reach on a QB. Now, some will say EJ wasn't Whaley's pick because Nix was GM, technically, GM at the time of the pick. However, the draft board was set by Whaley, therefore making it seem ok to draft EJ in the 1st round. Furthermore, the "Whaley wasn't GM" point becomes moot when Whaley doubles down on EJ the following year. At any point after Nix left, Whaley could have said that EJ wasn't his choice to save his own butt. But he didn't. In fact, he went to great lengths to, metaphorically, adopt EJ, as if he were his own by building the team around him. This one action, combined with the sale of the team to new ownership on the horizon caused a chain reaction that sent Whaley to reach on the Sammy pick the following year imo. Now, just to explain, I think everyone would agree that Sammy was top 5 talent. However, to me, where the "reach" comes in was when Whaley included extra 1st and 4th rounders to move up 5 spots in the greatest WR class in history. It seemed he overspent when he didn't have to. I feel that his poor decision was founded in two flawed ideas: The first being that EJ was a franchise QB after an average-at-best showing his first season. The second being mortgaging the future for potentially, his last shot to make the playoffs for new ownership. Again, i want to reiterate, i have not heard this anywhere being reported, but just a perception of the situation that i have had, along with some other fans. And while this may be speculation, it is hard to deny that the Bills poor results in recent years could be traced back to these decisions. so, your very negative view of Whaley is based upon one trade up? doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Hey, I got an idea...let's hurl personal attacks because it's so much easier than adding an insightful post to the discussion....(sigh) How do I reach these kids? Hey I got an idea make baseless attacks on personnel because of your feelings... (sigh) How do i reach these asshats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 The people I talk to who coach in college disagree with you. I asked about Fresno State's offense and was told it was Air Raid. I do get how casual fans associate the "real" Air Raid with Texas Tech. Many NFL teams do as well. It's how Goff went #1 but the Air Raid wasn't talked about as much as it is with Mahomes. Who are you talking to because it was a spread not an air raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 (edited) so, your very negative view of Whaley is based upon one trade up? doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I think Doug Whaley does some things well...and others not so much...One of the things i don't think he does well is value draft picks...he is too reckless when it comes to the draft and I don't think he plays it as well as he could imo. Hey I got an idea make baseless attacks on personnel because of your feelings... (sigh) How do i reach these asshats? LOL you're fun... I gave my opinions and the reasons for them...if you still feel they are baseless, then that is your problem, not mine. Edited April 22, 2017 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Who are you talking to because it was a spread not an air raid. The Air Raid is a spread offense. Your point is meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 The Air Raid is a spread offense. Your point is meaningless. The spread is a formation and the air raid is an offensive philosophy it's that simple. You do multiple things out of a spread being that it is a formation and air raid is an actual offensive system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 The spread is a formation and the air raid is an offensive philosophy it's that simple. You do multiple things out of a spread being that it is a formation and air raid is an actual offensive system. I honestly can't follow what you are saying. Where does Air Raid begin and end? An interesting topic for another time. Dennison and Kubiak were running Air Raid plays at Denver as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 I honestly can't follow what you are saying. Where does Air Raid begin and end? An interesting topic for another time. Dennison and Kubiak were running Air Raid plays at Denver as well. If you can't understand what a formation is I dont know what to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 If you can't understand what a formation is I dont know what to tell you. No, I know what a formation is. I have a hard time following your argument and have lost interest in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 ...trading up in a lackluster QB year with only 6 picks is asinine....... 1. Trade DOWN into the 20's, hopefully finding a partner and look to garner another 1st in 2018; add a 2nd or 3rd to the 2017 slate (chartmasters do the math). 2. Still draft a QB later; go into camp with TT, Yates, draftee, Cardale and Woodrum (shhhh....our sleeper). Two to the active, one to PS and two adios 3. Two 1sts in 2018 with an allegedly (?; next year is always better?) better QB class; 2017 is TT's "make it or break it" year; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Has to be the Bills...Whaley is the King of reaches and he knows a QB is the only position that could extend his employment...this is why he constantly makes poor draft decisions...his choices are always for the wrong reasons... Dude. Whaley is the King of Reaches? His draft choices are way better than the Bills have historically been. You must be like 12, because no one could write that if they were around to witness Modrak, Levy and Russ "Aaron Maybin" Brandon. I mean seriously, some of you guys out there SMH... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 (edited) Dude. Whaley is the King of Reaches? His draft choices are way better than the Bills have historically been. You must be like 12, because no one could write that if they were around to witness Modrak, Levy and Russ "Aaron Maybin" Brandon. I mean seriously, some of you guys out there SMH... Dude. Whaley is the King of Reaches? His draft choices are way better than the Bills have historically been. You must be like 12, because no one could write that if they were around to witness Modrak, Levy and Russ "Aaron Maybin" Brandon. I mean seriously, some of you guys out there SMH... While I agree with your assessment of the previous GMs and their horrible picks, Whaley is the only GM i could see wasting draft picks to trade up in this mediocre QB draft class...As i said before, I made the statement about "King of reaches" based on his reckless nature with draft picks...and while he can make decent picks at times, it never seems like he gets value...Other than the EJ pick, i don't ever remember trading back- and even then EJ was grossly overvalued, imo Edited April 22, 2017 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Tribusky's agents seem to be doing a wonderful job pumping their clients hype with a week to go until the draft. Who benefits the most by creating a lot of false demand for his client? The the client and the agent. All the smoke you hear this time of year is agent driven and every agents job is to hype their clients prospects. Tribusky is in for a long wait on Thursday, IMO. I don't buy all this smoke about a QB going in the the top 5 and if one goes in the top 10 I think it'll be Mahomes not Tribusky. Just go watch Tribusky's games vs. VT, NC. St. and Duke on youtube. After watching those games tell me if you'd be excited about drafting him in the 1st round. If you have 2 working eyes my guess is that you will be totally underwhelmed with Tribusky. He's a mess. Many teams in the top 5 would love to trade down and "steal" an additional 2nd round pick so I expect to hear a lot more rumors & smoke to try and create false demand for those picks. The truth is no team is moving up into the top 7 picks to get Tribusky. He will likely be on the board when the Bills pick at #10 (unless the Browns make the mistake of leapfrogging us to take him), and the Bills will pass on him. He's not good folks! Check that VT game if you only have time to watch 1. You will see what I'm talking about with your own 2 eyes! He could step in and start immediately. He already exhibits every skill the Bills look for in a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 No, I know what a formation is. I have a hard time following your argument and have lost interest in it. Hard time following the difference between a formation and a philosophy? That's terrific. Believe me, winning an argument with you would be the equivalent of painting the sistine Chapel for a blind community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Hard time following the difference between a formation and a philosophy? That's terrific. Believe me, winning an argument with you would be the equivalent of painting the sistine Chapel for a blind community. That's your put down? Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Jason ColeVerified account @JasonColeBR 48m48 minutes ago More #Titans, #Bills, #Jets and #49ers among teams in Top 10 of NFL draft who have called around for trade downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 That's your put down? Sad. I don't need a put down. This whole time you literally have argued things that are based solely on your opinion trying to pass them off as fact... with the people you "talk to." Furthermore you admit to not knowing the different between a formation and a philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Jason ColeVerified account @JasonColeBR 48m48 minutes agoMore #Titans, #Bills, #Jets and #49ers among teams in Top 10 of NFL draft who have called around for trade downs. ...the rookie salary cap took away a huge component in trading down philosophy.....the last boyz to cash under the old system were Bradford at $50 mil guaranteed preceded by Stafford at $41 mil guaranteed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianFan Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 Cleveland spreading misinformation so they look smarter when they waste the number one pick on a QB that ends up out of the league in a few years.. THAT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 ...the rookie salary cap took away a huge component in trading down philosophy.....the last boyz to cash under the old system were Bradford at $50 mil guaranteed preceded by Stafford at $41 mil guaranteed..... this actually makes me happy to hear this, after all the rumors about the Bills possibly willing to trade up instead...if the Bills actually manage to trade down after all, it would give me a little hope that perhaps Whaley can learn from his past mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I don't need a put down. This whole time you literally have argued things that are based solely on your opinion trying to pass them off as fact... with the people you "talk to." Furthermore you admit to not knowing the different between a formation and a philosophy. I just lost interest in trying to talk about Air Raid with you. It is an interesting topic but you seem stuck in a different decade. Air Raid concepts are being introduced throughout the college game and NFL. The label Air Raid can be subjective. There are schools running Air Raid concepts that don't get the label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 this actually makes me happy to hear this, after all the rumors about the Bills possibly willing to trade up instead...if the Bills actually manage to trade down after all, it would give me a little hope that perhaps Whaley can learn from his past mistakes. ...Grandma always said, "no guts no glory, no bawls no blue chips sonny".....she was ALWAYS right.....Whaley moved up to grab Sammy and the grade to date is INCOMPLETE because of unfortunate injuries....look at the bold move Dimitrif made to get Julio, a boatload....and the pundits then were WTF?....it paid off......you just never know.....sure as hell cannot question Sammy's head or heart..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan17 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I just lost interest in trying to talk about Air Raid with you. It is an interesting topic but you seem stuck in a different decade. Air Raid concepts are being introduced throughout the college game and NFL. The label Air Raid can be subjective. There are schools running Air Raid concepts that don't get the label. Concepts are vastly different than an overall style. The game is always evolving and everyone will pick things from various styles to try and get an advantage. That I fully understand and appreciate. However, the concepts and philosophy of a full on Air Raid are different than taking a few ideals from it and using it every so often. Teams have a Wilcat package, does that mean they run the wildcat full time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Concepts are vastly different than an overall style. The game is always evolving and everyone will pick things from various styles to try and get an advantage. That I fully understand and appreciate. However, the concepts and philosophy of a full on Air Raid are different than taking a few ideals from it and using it every so often. Teams have a Wilcat package, does that mean they run the wildcat full time? Yes, just like there are teams in the NFL that run West Coast Offenses yet every team in the NFL has West Coast concepts in their playbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 ...Grandma always said, "no guts no glory, no bawls no blue chips sonny".....she was ALWAYS right.....Whaley moved up to grab Sammy and the grade to date is INCOMPLETE because of unfortunate injuries....look at the bold move Dimitrif made to get Julio, a boatload....and the pundits then were WTF?....it paid off......you just never know.....sure as hell cannot question Sammy's head or heart..... After watching Sammy play on his broken foot last year, i will never question his heart...however, to me, the Falcons getting Julio made more sense than the Bills getting Sammy...they had the franchise QB and Julio was the final piece... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 After watching Sammy play on his broken foot last year, i will never question his heart...however, to me, the Falcons getting Julio made more sense than the Bills getting Sammy...they had the franchise QB and Julio was the final piece... And some say Bills are considering spending ANOTHER 1st round pick on WR, after spending 2 on Sammy, with no QB! This team has no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Personally I think the Bills are stirring up the QB pot in hopes that at least 2 will be taken before their pick so that their real target falls to them. Most logical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 And some say Bills are considering spending ANOTHER 1st round pick on WR, after spending 2 on Sammy, with no QB! This team has no clue. I will honest with ya, i am extra nervous for this draft...there is no telling which direction the Bills are planning to go....and for some reason there just seems to be more 'fools gold' this year than normal...we could be getting closer to building something or we could be setting the franchise back again- and with the new staff, there are just so many extra variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Age of Aquarius Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I'd give up the next 5 firsts for CJ Beathard. Whoever gets him is set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I'd give up the next 5 firsts for CJ Beathard. Whoever gets him is set. Man, his first name is one letter off from being really cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 I will honest with ya, i am extra nervous for this draft...there is no telling which direction the Bills are planning to go....and for some reason there just seems to be more 'fools gold' this year than normal...we could be getting closer to building something or we could be setting the franchise back again- and with the new staff, there are just so many extra variables. For sure. My view is that the Bills are 2 great drafts away from being competitive again. I have a lot of fear with our organizational structure and am really worried McDermott tries to to Jauron his way through the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Jason ColeVerified account @JasonColeBR 48m48 minutes ago More #Titans, #Bills, #Jets and #49ers among teams in Top 10 of NFL draft who have called around for trade downs. That's what I like to hear! This is what the a Bills should be trying to do. We have way too many roster spots left to fill yet, and id sure be nice to be able to fill some of those spots with a few extra draft picks. We will still have to sign a bunch of undrafted players after the draft, and probably some vet minimum signings too. But if the Bills can pick up an extra 2nd and/or 3rd (etc) I'd say that gives them a better shot at landing some quality players to fill some of those roster spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 He could step in and start immediately. He already exhibits every skill the Bills look for in a QB. He can hit the wide open hospitality tent already? .......draft him at 10.....or better yet trade up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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