DrDawkinstein Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 We don't know. We're just guessing. There is nothing wrong with input. The issue is when does input become unwanted pressure to get the coach players short term. It happened under the Pegulas organizational structure just last year when we spent 3 picks on an inside linebacker to fix Rex's defense. The pick we gave away would have been Dak Prescott. We shall see if the same old same old is happening. Who is in charge? We shall see in a few weeks. Let's hope it's not McDermott. And as you know, we can't blame DW or McD for that. That is all on the Pegulas. Dude. Really? You crossed a line. You really think McDermott cares nothing about the future of his current team? That may be the stoopidfone thing I've ever read here. McD cant care about the team 3-5 years out because there is nothing to show he has that long. He MUST win within the 1st 2 years or the carousel continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) I'm in the minority, but I like Whaley. I like his ability to find FAs off the street that produce and overall, I like his drafting. I have no faith in a 1st time head coach to deliver as GM. I hope Terry and Kim know what they're doing. fwiw (and I didn't read Sullys article so maybe he said it) ...I haven't seen anything suggesting that McD would act as GM? Lacanfora said he heard McD would prefer to bring in the Panthers Director of Player Personnel as the GM. Edited March 26, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 And as you know, we can't blame DW or McD for that. That is all on the Pegulas. McD cant care about the team 3-5 years out because there is nothing to show he has that long. He MUST win within the 1st 2 years or the carousel continues. Thank you. Coaches are there to coach and to win NOW. They may care about the future but they care about the present more. It's how we messed up recent drafts trying to build Rex's defense. Let's not keep doing that with McDermott. fwiw (and I didn't read Sullys article so maybe he said it) ...I haven't seen anything suggesting that McD would act as GM? Lacanfora said he heard McD would prefer to bring in the Panthers Director of Player Personnel as the GM. If he brings in his own guys McDermott will have way too much power for a first year, conservative and defensive minded coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) We don't know. We're just guessing. There is nothing wrong with input. The issue is when does input become unwanted pressure to get the coach players short term. It happened under the Pegulas organizational structure just last year when we spent 3 picks on an inside linebacker to fix Rex's defense. The pick we gave away would have been Dak Prescott. We shall see if the same old same old is happening. Who is in charge? We shall see in a few weeks. Let's hope it's not McDermott. ...if McCoach is responsible for "between the lines", shouldn't he have significant input as to who is there and how they fit HIS scheme?.....I sure as hell would not take the HC job if the GM was going to force feed me players with the edict, "YOU better make it work"...... Edited March 26, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Thank you. Coaches are there to coach and to win NOW. They may care about the future but they care about the present more. It's how we messed up recent drafts trying to build Rex's defense. Let's not keep doing that with McDermott. That said, I hope that McD does have 5-8 years. Much like the Cowboys did with Jason Garrett, who struggled mightily even WITH a franchise QB on the roster. 3 lackluster seasons to start his coaching career, and a lot of people thought he was on the hot seat. But Jones stuck with him and helped him tweak his staff, and build and learn. And now look. A solid structure and scheme where they can plug a rookie QB and RB in and get all-pro performances out of them. That has more to do with the infrastructure in place than either of their individual performances. I'm hoping that, no matter what, the Pegulas just stick with what we have for a while. Let them settle in and grow into it. Retain this team of Whaley/Monos/McD and let them evolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 ...if McCoach is responsible for "between the lines", shouldn't he have significant input as to who is there and how they fit HIS scheme?.....I sure as hell would not take the HC job if the GM was going to force feed me players with the edict, "YOU better make it work"...... There is nothing wrong with telling the GM what type of players you need to run your scheme. What about what happens with the top ten pick? Does Mcdermott get that call? Does he convince Pegulas to give him a defensive back over the quarterback Whaley might want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Here is an article regarding Belicheats draft picks:https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1179256-bill-belichick-the-best-and-worst-draft-picks-of-his-patriots-career.amp.htmlThe 10 best and the 10 worst - What? Bill had some stinkers - no, say it ain't so...[/quote That article provides great perspective on the draft. They list a number of high picks 1st and 2nd rounders that did not pan out well for Bellichick. Some people think that 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks should be 100% slam dunks, but that is NOT reality for any team. Some hold the local GM to an unrealistic standard wrt draft picks. Our misses are much more in focus to us and we don't realize or want to acknowledge that every other team misses on high picks, too. No question that Brady and Bellichick's coaching are the biggest reason for their dominance. That doesn't mean that Bellichick never made a bad pick It does state alot the article states that Brandon Meriweather is the number one bust lets put that into perspectective: 1: Mayweather's last year in the league 2015 he played in 13 games as a ss. 2: Mayweather had more tackles and passes defenses then all of th Bills SS group combine last year. All of those SS's were brought in by who? Doug Whaley. So BB's worst drafted player outperforms our entire SS group in a fraction of the games played. Perspective oh and tge article is 5 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 ...if McCoach is responsible for "between the lines", shouldn't he have significant input as to who is there and how they fit HIS scheme?.....I sure as hell would not take the HC job if the GM was going to force feed me players with the edict, "YOU better make it work"...... That's exactly what jeff just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) Thank you. Coaches are there to coach and to win NOW. They may care about the future but they care about the present more. It's how we messed up recent drafts trying to build Rex's defense. Let's not keep doing that with McDermott. If he brings in his own guys McDermott will have way too much power for a first year, conservative and defensive minded coach. what does conservative and defensive minded have to do with it? It would be ok if he was reckless and an OC? Edited March 26, 2017 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) Thank you for this point. Too many make it out like Whaley lost some monumental power struggle over TT. I think it is good that he worked with his head coach to provide the best QB available in the situation. I was honestly hoping it would go that way. My issues with whaley are not as strong as some. Let them get to know each other for a full season a least. Edited March 26, 2017 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) what does conservative and defensive minded have to do with it? It would be ok if he was reckless and an OC?Yolo their seems to be a tangent of short sighted posters on hear that believe in lackluster defense and an an air raid offense similiar to the Saints and Chargers frustrating organizations. Dont ask me why but it would make more sense to have a fundamentally balanced and complimentary team. That way your team isnt destroyed if that key player is injured or missing on offense and you have to attempt to put up 40 to match the Falcons and Saints. To each their own... Edited March 26, 2017 by Bill_with_it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 what does conservative and defensive minded have to do with it? It would be ok if he was reckless and an OC? The opposite of conservative the way I used it would be aggressive. The main advantage of having an offensive minded coach is that maybe they also understand quarterbacks and quarterback play. Think of Dick Jauron as a conservative, defensive minded coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I liked more than many of Whaley's choices, but not all. At this point, if McDermitt has pro personnel staff he wants to bring in and they have the same philosophy as him, then I've changed my mind, and just pull the trigger. My guess is Whaley will end up head of scouting somewhere. We need to have our personnel dept and coaching completely lock step together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I liked more than many of Whaley's choices, but not all. At this point, if McDermitt has pro personnel staff he wants to bring in and they have the same philosophy as him, then I've changed my mind, and just pull the trigger. My guess is Whaley will end up head of scouting somewhere. We need to have our personnel dept and coaching completely lock step together. I actually think this will be out of the frying pan, into the fire. I am not a Whaley fan but I would rather have Whaley picking players than McD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 The opposite of conservative the way I used it would be aggressive. The main advantage of having an offensive minded coach is that maybe they also understand quarterbacks and quarterback play. Think of Dick Jauron as a conservative, defensive minded coach. ....too painful to regurgitate the thought of Dopey Dickey......his pressers resembled my grandmother's wake and he thought "offense" meant infraction..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 It might be possible Whaley would step back to pro personnel director, but if he did get canned either another team would sign him quickly or he'd be in charge at Univ of Pittsburgh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo86 Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Whaley should've been fired the day he traded up for Watkins & said there wasn't much of a difference between Watkins & the other WRs in the draft. Or when he decided to roll with EJ, Tuel, & Thad Lewis... for the second year in a row. Absolutely clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I actually think this will be out of the frying pan, into the fire. I am not a Whaley fan but I would rather have Whaley picking players than McD. Why have you decided McDermott would provide poor input on personnel decisions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Why have you decided McDermott would provide poor input on personnel decisions? If you were a Raider fan who would you prefer pick the players? Jack Del Rio or Reggie Mckenzie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Yeah, he keeps embarrassing the organization ...once. Belichick hasn't exactly rocked the NFL with his draft picks and free agent signings, has he? Brady = Hoodie GM skills. As for your other question, it drives me up a wall when people work themselves up over what is mostly rumors and falsehoods. But when you have a group who have their minds made up about Whaley, anything negative is taken as gospel. It's tiresome. Take Common's comment "... he keeps embarrassing the organization." Take one event and refer to it as multiple issues. That's jedi mind voodoo. All those rings are embarrassing, aren't they? I stated my belief that a coach is more important at evaluating talent and blending players into a system. A coach does need the support of the rest of the organization so that the leg work gets done. If you let other people's rants/beliefs/opinions drive you up a wall that is on you. This is a free forum and for open discussion. You continue to attack people who don't agree with you on a regular basis. So take it or leave it I really don't care. I will continue to believe that if you expect a coach to win, you should give him the power to buy the groceries (within a budget mind you) and then have a suit work out the contracts, run the scouting department so the coach as the info he needs to find that player(s), make sure Pegs is happy and oversee the big picture. IMO Whaley gets starstruck with individuals and looses sight of the team concept. One other metric I would like to posit, who generally makes a bigger paycheck? The HC or the GM? That should shed some light on exactly who an organization values the most. If you were a Raider fan who would you prefer pick the players? Jack Del Rio or Reggie Mckenzie? So instead of answering Horned Dog's question, you just moved the goal posts. We aren't talking about the Raiders as far as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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