Any way you slice it Kaepernick represents good value

[boyst]

Unless, of course, you're black.

empirical evidence disagees with you but thank god CNN, Twitter and Rachel Maddow got your back!

[Rob's House]

if you assume only the killings are a problem and not simply a symptom of wider issues that materialize in other abuses of power and really unfortunate outcomes for our citizens.

 

also, interestingly enough, the data is surprisingly inconsistent on all this -- which i think is frustrating. example -- california from 2003 to 2005 reported 160 TOTAL police homocides to the BJS, and 354 justified homocides to the FBI. That would imply the subset of justified killings is larger than the totality of killings occurring. Getting a handle on figuring out if the results of interaction with our justice system are where they need to be (equitable, fair, etc... across the board) is a big deal.

 

it also leads into natural discussions on a lot of related topics of the systems in place (education, employment, housing etc...). Bringing attention and working to provide better outcomes isnt outlandish by any means.

 

And of course, theres the fact that a lot of those other "more important" problems likewise have a lot of people working on them. you can work on multiple things in parallel.

 

There's nothing wrong with having a reasonable discussion about police procedures, use of force, and racial disparities related to that topic. Any time the government (or anyone for that matter) is permitted to use force against another it's not only appropriate to scrutinize and hold them accountable, it would be inappropriate not to. The problem here is not the topic, it's the message AND its delivery.

 

Let me give an example to illustrate my point. There's nothing wrong with discussing the problems of disproportionate levels of crime, poverty, and illegitimacy in the black community. But if <insert white celebrity> "started a conversation" by wiping his feet on the flag and denouncing America as a whole for being an ungodly country on the grounds that we tolerate and subsidize an irresponsible people I don't think it would go over well.

 

I also think many of the people in this thread who aren't concerned about "politics" would suddenly find themselves much more politically sensitive in that scenario.

empirical evidence disagees with you but thank god CNN, Twitter and Rachel Maddow got your back!

 

Empirical evidence is for quakers.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2011 Alex Smith and a very good defense got to the Conf Championship IIRC

 

2012 SF dumped AS for CK and again with a very good defense got to and lost to Joe Flacco's Ravens (with a very good defense)

 

2013 Kaep and a very good defense got to the Conf Championship and lost to Seattle

 

2014 began the downward spiral.

 

Lesson learned SF dumping Alex Smith was dumb

[Boatdrinks]

Unless, of course, you're black.

I hope you mean unless of course you happen to be shot. More whites are shot than blacks ( most years) but those don't seem as widely reported. Anyway there is a system in place to determine if use of force by police is justified ( and yes the standard is lower than for a private citizen for obvious reasons) . The amount of these relative to the population and number of incidents of police contact is relatively small. Not a huge problem. Follow instructions to the "T " if involved in Police contact and " $h*t gets real". In alll likelihood you will be fine. False and misleading reports by the media notwithstanding.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Boatdrinks

[NoSaint]

 

There's nothing wrong with having a reasonable discussion about police procedures, use of force, and racial disparities related to that topic. Any time the government (or anyone for that matter) is permitted to use force against another it's not only appropriate to scrutinize and hold them accountable, it would be inappropriate not to. The problem here is not the topic, it's the message AND its delivery.

 

Let me give an example to illustrate my point. There's nothing wrong with discussing the problems of disproportionate levels of crime, poverty, and illegitimacy in the black community. But if <insert white celebrity> "started a conversation" by wiping his feet on the flag and denouncing America as a whole for being an ungodly country on the grounds that we tolerate and subsidize an irresponsible people I don't think it would go over well.

 

I also think many of the people in this thread who aren't concerned about "politics" would suddenly find themselves much more politically sensitive in that scenario.

 

well, of course delivery and content matter. and the threads branched off in a few different directions - so its hard to have that coherent conversation going in several different directions.

 

i think kneeling is a pretty a-okay delivery, but also recognize hes done less productive things like the sock fiasco. I certainly think that one is a much smarter route than the other but im also not going to HATE the guy over most of the missteps hes made. the dude can be well intentioned and flawed and not the devil.

 

as to the content, i think hes likewise hit some very fair points, and probably missed the boat a few times. again one of those spots where i chalk up his intentions as generally very positive, and execution as imperfect. but hes a mid/late 20s guy trying to do big things under intense scrutiny.

 

i know YOU have done a lot of work on the topics at hand and strongly disagree. i do not get the impression that most of those with the highest level of vitriol towards him have tried remotely to understand the situation though.

 

Lets be real Rob, do you think that those that HATE, and im talking "ill never watch the nfl again if hes signed" type of folks, are more upset with him on for the finer points of his beliefs/execution, or that a young, rich and opinionated black guy is speaking up instead of entertaining them?

Edited March 22, 2017 by NoSaint

[KGUNBILLS]

Athletes get paid to play, not voice opinions, make political statements, or express unwanted points of view. As a veteran, a federal servant, and an extremely proud, thankful, and very humble American, I say stand for he National Anthem, or sit the bench forever.

[wppete]

This thread is completely out of control. Who cares about politics!!!! Isn't there a Politics Section on this Forum for this type of discussion?

 

Bottom line is he is a GARBAGE QB and the Bills would be foolish to even think of signing him. Don't think we have any interest in him anyway. Who cares what any other team does regarding him anyway.

[CanadianFan]

Athletes get paid to play, not voice opinions, make political statements, or express unwanted points of view. As a veteran, a federal servant, and an extremely proud, thankful, and very humble American, I say stand for he National Anthem, or sit the bench forever.

 

In a democracy everyone has a right to say what they believe, including opinion that's contrary to your mighty belief. One point - he's broken NO LAW. This is STILL a free country right? He can do whatever he pleases without breaking law. And there's a strong history of stars and athletes advocating varying causes.

 

Second point - the UNIQUE thing about United States of America since dark ages is that it OPENLY ALLOWED Political DISSENT. Now you're going to shame him for expressing his opinion on treatment of minorities? From the outside looking, that's what's wrong with America, and why it's gone backwards, not what made it great.

 

It's OPENNESS to People of varying backgrounds, its OPENNESS to ideas, its OPENNESS to dissent and political debate, and that consequent dynamism is what MADE USA great in the last century (amongst other things including Geography). This kind of non-sense will lead to its decline. Which will make rivals like China and Russia only too happy.

 

Now let's just get back to FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thread is completely out of control. Who cares about politics!!!! Isn't there a Politics Section on this Forum for this type of discussion?

 

I agree!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

This thread is completely out of control. Who cares about politics!!!! Isn't there a Politics Section on this Forum for this type of discussion?

 

Bottom line is he is a GARBAGE QB and the Bills would be foolish to even think of signing him. Don't think we have any interest in him anyway. Who cares what any other team does regarding him anyway.

....you go PETE ....he's been figured out and is done despite Spike Lee and his convenient race card proclamation....same goes for RG II 1/4.....time for both to look for a new line of work IMO...........

[Rob's House]

well, of course delivery and content matter. and the threads branched off in a few different directions - so its hard to have that coherent conversation going in several different directions.

 

i think kneeling is a pretty a-okay delivery, but also recognize hes done less productive things like the sock fiasco. I certainly think that one is a much smarter route than the other but im also not going to HATE the guy over most of the missteps hes made. the dude can be well intentioned and flawed and not the devil.

 

as to the content, i think hes likewise hit some very fair points, and probably missed the boat a few times. again one of those spots where i chalk up his intentions as generally very positive, and execution as imperfect. but hes a mid/late 20s guy trying to do big things under intense scrutiny.

 

i know YOU have done a lot of work on the topics at hand and strongly disagree. i do not get the impression that most of those with the highest level of vitriol towards him have tried remotely to understand the situation though.

Lets be real Rob, do you think that those that HATE, and im talking "ill never watch the nfl again if hes signed" type of folks, are more upset with him on for the finer points of his beliefs/execution, or that a young, rich and opinionated black guy is speaking up instead of entertaining them?

Honestly, I think the 2 main components are disrespecting the flag (and by extension America) and declaring America a racist country. You're always going to invoke the deep resentment of the flag waving patriotic crowd with the former, and a lot more people are sick and damn tired of being called racist. And there is a lot of overlap in those groups.

 

The young, entitled, half-black, multi-millionaire celebrity whining about being oppressed is always going to turn people off, but guys get away with that all the time. The wholesale slander of the country generally took this to another level. That he dragged it onto the football field hits the fuktard trifecta.

 

 

 

On a slightly different note, I'm all for freedom of speech and I think demanding firings, organizing boycotts, and going after sponsors is grimy. I call it cultural fascism. But this is different. This isn't a guy who posted something on twitter, made a controversial statement in an interview, or got drunk and dropped a slur at a concert. This guy went on the field, in uniform, at game time and did this. Now I still wouldn't threaten to boycott a team that signed him, but I don't blame teams for avoiding him like the plague. He did this to himself.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Rob's House

[Boatdrinks]

This thread is completely out of control. Who cares about politics!!!! Isn't there a Politics Section on this Forum for this type of discussion?

 

Bottom line is he is a GARBAGE QB and the Bills would be foolish to even think of signing him. Don't think we have any interest in him anyway. Who cares what any other team does regarding him anyway.

 

Yes, it is . And Kaep made himself inseparable from politics through his own choice. He will forever be linked.

[Gugny]

Honestly, I think the 2 main components are disrespecting the flag (and by extension America) and declaring America a racist country. You're always going to invoke the deep resentment of the flag waving patriotic crowd with the former, and a lot more people are sick and damn tired of being called racist. And there is a lot of overlap in those groups.

 

The young, entitled, half-black, multi-millionaire celebrity whining about being oppressed is always going to turn people off, but guys get away with that all the time. The wholesale slander of the country generally took this to another level. That he dragged it onto the football field hits the fuktard trifecta.

 

 

 

On a slightly different note, I'm all for freedom of speech and I think demanding firings, organizing boycotts, and going after sponsors is grimy. I call it cultural fascism. But this is different. This isn't a guy who posted something on twitter, made a controversial statement in an interview, or got drunk and dropped a slur at a concert. This guy went on the field, in uniform, at game time and did this. Now I still wouldn't threaten to boycott a team that signed him, but I don't blame teams for avoiding him like the plague. He did this to himself.

 

I don't recall Kaepernick saying he was oppressed. I get that statistics show that police shoot more whites than blacks (there's a lot more whites than blacks in our country), and I personally don't think a few racist, trigger-happy cops should define a nation. My interpretation of his protest was that the U.S., generally speaking, mistreats blacks. I agree with that. Racism - specifically racism against blacks, is all too alive and well in this country. It should never stop being discussed and it should never take a back seat. It's a real problem. He simply reminded everyone that it is still a big problem and he got people - lots of people - talking about it.

 

His protest served its purpose, as far as I can see.

 

He could have gotten a mic in front of his face and gone on a tirade. He could have organized a rally. He chose silent protest. Peaceful protest. A protest that caused no physical harm to anyone. And it resonated. He's a smart young man and I commend him for what he's done. And yes, I stand when the anthem plays and I would like if everyone did. But it's each individual's choice and should they choose to remain seated, they have their reason(s) and I respect that.

 

I still think he's employable as an NFL QB and I'd be shocked if he didn't make someone's 53 before this season starts. If so, then good for him.

[Gunsgoodtime]

Thread needs to be closed, it's been turned into politics. Fwiw,Kap sucks as a qb

[boyst]

I don't recall Kaepernick saying he was oppressed. I get that statistics show that police shoot more whites than blacks (there's a lot more whites than blacks in our country), and I personally don't think a few racist, trigger-happy cops should define a nation. My interpretation of his protest was that the U.S., generally speaking, mistreats blacks. I agree with that. Racism - specifically racism against blacks, is all too alive and well in this country. It should never stop being discussed and it should never take a back seat. It's a real problem. He simply reminded everyone that it is still a big problem and he got people - lots of people - talking about it.

 

His protest served its purpose, as far as I can see.

 

He could have gotten a mic in front of his face and gone on a tirade. He could have organized a rally. He chose silent protest. Peaceful protest. A protest that caused no physical harm to anyone. And it resonated. He's a smart young man and I commend him for what he's done. And yes, I stand when the anthem plays and I would like if everyone did. But it's each individual's choice and should they choose to remain seated, they have their reason(s) and I respect that.

 

I still think he's employable as an NFL QB and I'd be shocked if he didn't make someone's 53 before this season starts. If so, then good for him.

what about racist blacks? Racist Hispanics? Racist Asians? Because, I am confused when you say the US mistreats blacks. Who is the US? Is it the government? Is it welfare doled out to a demographic consisting of roughly 75% of its kids out of wedlock? Is it Americans victimized by identity theft by illegal residents? Is it the ignorant fool who thinks that there should be a division in the hierarchy of society separating his community from the rest? Maybe it is an entire state believing it is not responsible for upholding federal law?

 

I'm really confused about who is what and I think you may be to...

[CommonCents]

what about racist blacks? Racist Hispanics? Racist Asians? Because, I am confused when you say the US mistreats blacks. Who is the US? Is it the government? Is it welfare doled out to a demographic consisting of roughly 75% of its kids out of wedlock? Is it Americans victimized by identity theft by illegal residents? Is it the ignorant fool who thinks that there should be a division in the hierarchy of society separating his community from the rest? Maybe it is an entire state believing it is not responsible for upholding federal law?

 

I'm really confused about who is what and I think you may be to...

The Buffalo Bills are racist against winning, I call for a federal investigation.

[Gugny]

what about racist blacks? Racist Hispanics? Racist Asians? Because, I am confused when you say the US mistreats blacks. Who is the US? Is it the government? Is it welfare doled out to a demographic consisting of roughly 75% of its kids out of wedlock? Is it Americans victimized by identity theft by illegal residents? Is it the ignorant fool who thinks that there should be a division in the hierarchy of society separating his community from the rest? Maybe it is an entire state believing it is not responsible for upholding federal law?

 

I'm really confused about who is what and I think you may be to...

 

If you can honestly say that racism against whites is a big problem in this country, than you really are confused.

 

I, however, am not confused. Not in the least.

 

This has nothing to do with welfare, nuclear families, identity theft ... and MOST OF ALL .. it's not about illegal residents.

 

Nice deflecting, though. With the topic at hand, I'd expect nothing less.

[boyst]

If you can honestly say that racism against whites is a big problem in this country, than you really are confused.

 

I, however, am not confused. Not in the least.

 

This has nothing to do with welfare, nuclear families, identity theft ... and MOST OF ALL .. it's not about illegal residents.

 

Nice deflecting, though. With the topic at hand, I'd expect nothing less.

again, you prove you are actually racist.

 

That was so easy to set you up gug

 

Racist against whites is not a big problem. Sorry I disagree. All racism is a big problem. But racism in this country is not a big problem.

 

Poverty is a big problem. Nuclear families (I pronounce nuclear like George Bush because it's funnier) are a problem - oh ha, that it takes a community to raise our kids quote! My god, what kind of cool would say and believe that! Anyway, nuclear families are a problem. There are many other issues that are much more important than racism. But, as someone in the liberal wasteland of deplorables that is New York's Democratic unit championed by the great Chucky Schumer it is not a surprise that there is such a blind understanding and cognitive dissonance which leads you to believe that America is racist and it's only one way.

 

I love how easy it is to manipulate you to say whatever I want.

 

I'll let you get back to Rachel, she probably has a good show tonight.

The Buffalo Bills are racist against winning, I call for a federal investigation.

federal investigation has been concluded. Emails found on Hillary's server from podesta prove that trump colluded with the Russians to ensure Putin could steal another ring.

[Gugny]

again, you prove you are actually racist.

 

That was so easy to set you up gug

 

Racist against whites is not a big problem. Sorry I disagree. All racism is a big problem. But racism in this country is not a big problem.

 

Poverty is a big problem. Nuclear families (I pronounce nuclear like George Bush because it's funnier) are a problem - oh ha, that it takes a community to raise our kids quote! My god, what kind of cool would say and believe that! Anyway, nuclear families are a problem. There are many other issues that are much more important than racism. But, as someone in the liberal wasteland of deplorables that is New York's Democratic unit championed by the great Chucky Schumer it is not a surprise that there is such a blind understanding and cognitive dissonance which leads you to believe that America is racist and it's only one way.

 

I love how easy it is to manipulate you to say whatever I want.

 

I'll let you get back to Rachel, she probably has a good show tonight.

 

If you think for one nano-second that you have the ability to manipulate me, think again. I'm not some adolescent girl.

 

My opinions are based on my real life experiences; not by television or memes.

 

I did not say that America is racist. I said that blacks are mistreated in America. That is not an opinion; it's a fact.

 

Yes ... before you go there, blacks mistreat white people. Hispanics mistreat Asians. Blah, blah, blah. Save it.

 

You're not goading me into anything; don't flatter yourself.

 

My goal is to show all of our new friends who the real racists and bigots are on this board. Word has it they're already onto some of you.

 

Go ahead and "dare" me to go to PPP ... I won't do it. I'm done discussing this topic. You've given me what I wanted.

 

And the funny thing is that you came out and called me a racist. That's fine. Those who know me will laugh. Those who know both of us might pull a muscle laughing so hard.

 

Go ahead and try to act like you run this board. You don't. You will never be a mod and there's no way in hell anyone who has any pull on this site has one ounce of respect for you. They all know who and what you are.

 

With that ... I'm out.

[Rob's House]

 

I don't recall Kaepernick saying he was oppressed. I get that statistics show that police shoot more whites than blacks (there's a lot more whites than blacks in our country), and I personally don't think a few racist, trigger-happy cops should define a nation. My interpretation of his protest was that the U.S., generally speaking, mistreats blacks. I agree with that. Racism - specifically racism against blacks, is all too alive and well in this country. It should never stop being discussed and it should never take a back seat. It's a real problem. He simply reminded everyone that it is still a big problem and he got people - lots of people - talking about it.

 

His protest served its purpose, as far as I can see.

 

He could have gotten a mic in front of his face and gone on a tirade. He could have organized a rally. He chose silent protest. Peaceful protest. A protest that caused no physical harm to anyone. And it resonated. He's a smart young man and I commend him for what he's done. And yes, I stand when the anthem plays and I would like if everyone did. But it's each individual's choice and should they choose to remain seated, they have their reason(s) and I respect that.

 

I still think he's employable as an NFL QB and I'd be shocked if he didn't make someone's 53 before this season starts. If so, then good for him.

Where are blacks treated well?

[boyst]

If you think for one nano-second that you have the ability to manipulate me, think again. I'm not some adolescent girl.

 

My opinions are based on my real life experiences; not by television or memes.

See

I did not say that America is racist. I said that blacks are mistreated in America. That is not an opinion; it's a fact.

 

Yes ... before you go there, blacks mistreat white people. Hispanics mistreat Asians. Blah, blah, blah. Save it.

 

You're not goading me into anything; don't flatter yourself.

 

My goal is to show all of our new friends who the real racists and bigots are on this board. Word has it they're already onto some of you.

 

Go ahead and "dare" me to go to PPP ... I won't do it. I'm done discussing this topic. You've given me what I wanted.

 

And the funny thing is that you came out and called me a racist. That's fine. Those who know me will laugh. Those who know both of us might pull a muscle laughing so hard.

 

Go ahead and try to act like you run this board. You don't. You will never be a mod and there's no way in hell anyone who has any pull on this site has one ounce of respect for you. They all know who and what you are.

 

With that ... I'm out.

dance for me but! Dance for me! You don't so well!

 

Your cute little inside insults because you think you know something special about me. Your thought I want to be a moderator. Your mission to prove you're above someone on the internet is hilarious but, remember. You're the guy who has an issue with people using your real name.

 

Lighten up. "Our new friends" my think you're up tight.

 

Dance on for me because it's funny how you think it gets to me. Glad I have you what you wanted. I'll let you know when I'm done with you.

Where are blacks treated well?

shhhh he's on a mission to expose my criminal past, my plot to take over two bills drive and my secret plan to name Tuesdays in to Boystdays!

 

But, yeah, the puppet said he was done here. He evidently proved us all as racists and beneath him. We lost, Rob. He won't come back, he's too full of ****. Maybe they all know who and what you are, too?