Kirby Jackson Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 If all the draft picks work out that could work. And thanks for that, most of the TT people have no conception of a team that could actually win. I do think Aaron is done which sucks because he would be great in this defense. Aaron Williams is a huge reason why we couldn't stop people these last 2 years. I think Aaron may be done as well. I also am not sure Baker makes it to their 2nd round pick. I think that he ends up late 1st. You can tweak it some though and take Adams or Hooker at 10 and Zay Jones in the 2nd. You can also cut Wood, play Groy and chase someone like Tony Jefferson. The Bills have some options. When I look at the team I put up I think that it's undeniable that the offense will have more talent. However the scheme that they had last year worked; they scored a lot. I think that the talent will be better but scheme a little worse. When I look at the defense I think that the talent is a little worse at LB and CB but potentially better at S and DL. Rex was terrible as wel so I'm hoping that removing his incompetence brings them to respectability. It's not perfect but that team could absolutely compete for a playoff spot (but not a title) at least IMO. That looks good, as our new GM who's punting and kicking?Certainly not Carpenter and probably not Schmidt. I haven't gone that far. That was just kind of top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 tyrod is 3x the qb glennon is. How is that possible ? Glennons a 65 yard a game qb ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Seems like a lot when you have a starter already entrenched. This is another reason why TT's deal as a starter, if they pick it up, isn't a lot. http://www.bucsnation.com/2017/3/2/14788460/buccaneers-offered-mike-glennon-over-7-million-per-year The information we have from that story tells little or nothing about how Tyrod's contract should be looked at. Let's say the report is correct at $7 mill per year. How much is guaranteed. Is it front-loaded or back-loaded. If they cut him after a year, will they have to pay him $4 mill, $7 mill or $15 mill? We don't know. All we know is that we don't know. But let's be imaginative and say it would be $7 mill if he were cut after a year, and $14 mill after two years. Does it somehow indicate that Tyrod, roughly the 20th best QB in the league, a bridge QB, should be paid $20 mill per year for two years (we can be very clear that the problem with Tyrod's contract is the guarantee and the fact that the contract is so front-loaded) that Glennon Last year Glennon's stats were insane, passer rating in the 120s, because he only threw 11 passes. But you sure can't say anything negative about how he performed. The last time before that that he has stats was 2014, when he had the 30th best passer rating in the league. The year before, his rookie year, he was 24th. Glennon is one of the guys you think about when you think about bridge QBs. He's certainly not as good of a bridge QB as Tyrod, but he's a guy who is a bridge/backup, not a pure backup. So paying a bridge guy like Tyrod like a franchise QB - $20.25 mill a year for two years - is certainly not justified by paying a bridge/backup guy like the one of the highest bridge/backup guy around. He's getting a bit less than Griffin III got per year. Putting it in more perspective, if Tyrod stayed two years here, the amount he'd be paid is closer to Tom Brady's yearly salary than anyone else's. Brady at #12 gets $20.5 mill, and Tyrod would be just behind that and a million ahead of the next guy. He'd also be within a million dollars per year of the next four guys ahead of Brady, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Philip Rivers and Eli Manning. Whereas if Glennon were paid $7 mill per year, he would be tied with Chase Daniel and just behind RGIII at $7.5 mill per year. I'm sorry, but that just is not that unreasonable. It's above Griffin that the huge leap upwards occurs, from Griffin at $7.5 mill to Dalton at $16 mill. Particularly when we don't know how Glennon's contract offer is structured, this says absoluely nothing about how reasonable it would be to pay Tyrod money that's close to Brady, Ryan, Newton, Rivers and Eli Manning if he stays with us for two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 How's this: QB - Tyrod RB - Shady LT - Glenn LG - Incognito C - Wood RG - Miller RT - Wagner ($7M per with a $4M cap hit) TE - Clay WR1 - Sammy WR2 - Corey Davis (1st round) Slot - Andrew Hawkins ($3M per with a $2M cap hit) DE - Hughes DT - Dareus DT - KW DE - Shaq OLB - Preston Brown MLB - Ragland OLB - Mychal Kendricks (trade 6th round pick) CB - Verner ($7M per with $5M cap hit) CB - Darby S - Aaron Williams S - Budda Baker (2nd round) I love your draft and it is a reasonable FA plan. But 2 things: 1) I keep harping on it but what good franchise has ever used 2 top 10 picks on WRs? Especially given what we traded up to get Sammy. Great qbs make WRs. Look at what the Steeelrs have used to pick WRs. I believe 4th round is the highest they have spend on them. Additionally, throwing the ball isn't Taylor's strong suit. Sammy was visibly frustrated at times with Taylor (and there are rumors that he isn't the biggest fan of bringing back TT). Adding another top 10 pick could cause problems. 2). If we are essentially building a stacked roster in your scenario, why pay TT? A lot of qbs could succeed in that offense. Given how Dak played, who's to say a rookie qb couldn't step into our team and play well? I love The Buddha though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) It's not that Tyrod is alot of money, it's that he's not good enough It's also that Tyrod is a lot of money. For Tyrod. Lemme repeat that if Tyrod stayed with us on this contract, for two years, he'd be paid $40.5 mill. And the four closest QBs to that average salary are Brady, Ryan, Newton, Rivers and Eli. Looks like McDermott wants to try to win immediately. Since that's true, Tyrod gives him the best chance to do so. But has absolutely not showed signs of being in the Brady-Ryan-Newton-Rivers-Eli neighborhood. Paying Glennon like Chase Daniel and Griffin III makes a ton more sense than paying Tyrod like Brady, Ryan, Newton, Rivers and Eli Edited March 2, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 If Taylor was a solid starter the money would be a steal for the Bills . Sadly he not a solid starter so the money is outrageous Great you built yourself a 8 win team Find a qb and you will win 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 If we keep Tyrod, drafting a WR at 10 is a wasted pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) I love your draft and it is a reasonable FA plan. But 2 things: 1) I keep harping on it but what good franchise has ever used 2 top 10 picks on WRs? Especially given what we traded up to get Sammy. Great qbs make WRs. Look at what the Steeelrs have used to pick WRs. I believe 4th round is the highest they have spend on them. Additionally, throwing the ball isn't Taylor's strong suit. Sammy was visibly frustrated at times with Taylor (and there are rumors that he isn't the biggest fan of bringing back TT). Adding another top 10 pick could cause problems. 2). If we are essentially building a stacked roster in your scenario, why pay TT? A lot of qbs could succeed in that offense. Given how Dak played, who's to say a rookie qb couldn't step into our team and play well? I love The Buddha though. In response to 1, we will throw the ball more in Dennison's offense. The Broncos have valued receivers (heavily) even with a broken Manning and TS after him. The Bills have a HUGE need there. Last year they were so run heavy that it was less important. With those guys being FAs they need to upgrade the talent. There is a big drop off after the top 2 this year. That's why I suspect that they grab one early. In terms of 2, you pay Taylor because he's still a WAY better option than the others. He has 47 TDs and 15 turnovers (think that's the number) over the last 2 years. You are advocating for a game manager with a talented roster. He's the ultimate game manager. That isn't meant as a compliment or a slight in this case. He is a guy that you can win with (he has a winning record) but you don't win because of. You will be married to him for 2 years but so what, you weren't likely to improve the QB play in that window anyways (despite what a vocal minority believe). The only reason not to keep Tyrod would be to blow it up. That is option 2 IMO. That involves releasing vets that are highly paid, making trades, and trying to bottom out while accumulating cap space and picks. I'd probably roll with a Cardale in that situation. My roster wouldn't have KW, Wood, Gilmore, Shady or Incognito in all likelihood. There is zero logic imo of going with Nick Foles (for example) and a talented roster. Either reset it or move forward. It's also that Tyrod is a lot of money. For Tyrod. Lemme repeat that if Tyrod stayed with us on this contract, for two years, he'd be paid $40.5 mill. And the four closest QBs to that average salary are Brady, Ryan, Newton, Rivers and Eli. Looks like McDermott wants to try to win immediately. Since that's true, Tyrod gives him the best chance to do so. But has absolutely not showed signs of being in the Brady-Ryan-Newton-Rivers-Eli neighborhood. Paying Glennon like Chase Daniel and Griffin III makes a ton more sense than paying Tyrod like Brady, Ryan, Newton, Rivers and Eli ...and yet he'd be the lowest paid starting vet (or something like that). No need to be sneaky by putting the guys around him whose contracts came up 1st. He'd be the 20th or so highest paid guy (roughly where he belongs). He will get that here or elsewhere. That's the market.If we keep Tyrod, drafting a WR at 10 is a wasted pick.No it's not, you don't have any under contract. You don't not upgrade at positions of need. If you have a chance to get a star like Davis you jump. If Taylor was a solid starter the money would be a steal for the Bills . Sadly he not a solid starter so the money is outrageous Great you built yourself a 8 win team Find a qb and you will win 11 Solid or star? 47 TDs vs. 15 turnovers and a 15-14 record easily qualifies as solid. The conversation isn't "is he solid?" I don't think anyone can debate that. It's "is he good enough to win with?" You can clearly be a playoff team but can you be a championship team? I say no, but that's different than "is he solid?" Edited March 2, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 In response to 1, we will throw the ball more in Dennison's offense. The Broncos have valued receivers (heavily) even with a broken Manning and TS after him. The Bills have a HUGE need there. Last year they were so run heavy that it was less important. With those guys being FAs they need to upgrade the talent. There is a big drop off after the top 2 this year. That's why I suspect that they grab one early. In terms of 2, you pay Taylor because he's still a WAY better option than the others. He has 47 TDs and 15 turnovers (think that's the number) over the last 2 years. You are advocating for a game manager with a talented roster. He's the ultimate game manager. That isn't meant as a compliment or a slight in this case. He is a guy that you can win with (he has a winning record) but you don't win because of. You will be married to him for 2 years but so what, you weren't likely to improve the QB play in that window anyways (despite what a vocal minority believe). The only reason not to keep Tyrod would be to blow it up. That is option 2 IMO. That involves releasing vets that are highly paid, making trades, and trying to bottom out while accumulating cap space and picks. I'd probably roll with a Cardale in that situation. My roster wouldn't have KW, Wood, Gilmore, Shady or Incognito in all likelihood. There is zero logic imo of going with Nick Foles (for example) and a talented roster. Either reset it or move forward. ...and yet he'd be the lowest paid starting vet (or something like that). No need to be sneaky by putting the guys around him whose contracts came up 1st. He'd be the 20th or so highest paid guy (roughly where he belongs). He will get that here or elsewhere. That's the market. I also want to say I am in the "blow it up" camp but that doesn't mean it will take long. We keep our best players in Sammy and Marcel. This team has so many holes and we need to find a long term answer at QB. Keeping TT delays that process. The Bills are very good at steering themselves into crap situations. Look at last year where they spend 3 picks on an inside linebacker to save Rex's defense and one of the picks used would have been Dak Prescott! We need to stop trying to go for it when we are in a natural down year due to schedule and heavy FA loss. Let Tyrod go, clear cap space, acquire draft picks. With a great draft this year and next we will have a solid foundation AND we will have our QB for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 In response to 1, we will throw the ball more in Dennison's offense. That's not good if Tyrod is retained as "throwing the ball" is his weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I'm cool with the Bills paying TT $15mil per year. I mean for crying out loud Kirk Cousins is asking for about $26mil per year and quite frankly he's won the same amount of games as TT (albeit he's made the playoffs 2 times) he's lost them both on his home field. Stephon Gilmore will honestly be making more than TT this year and he's a CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) How's this: QB - Tyrod RB - Shady LT - Glenn LG - Incognito C - Wood RG - Miller RT - Wagner ($7M per with a $4M cap hit) TE - Clay WR1 - Sammy WR2 - Corey Davis (1st round) Slot - Andrew Hawkins ($3M per with a $2M cap hit) DE - Hughes DT - Dareus DT - KW DE - Shaq OLB - Preston Brown MLB - Ragland OLB - Mychal Kendricks (trade 6th round pick) CB - Verner ($7M per with $5M cap hit) CB - Darby S - Aaron Williams S - Budda Baker (2nd round) I think it will be tough for them to commit to Sammy and another first round wr long term, so unless they don't think Sammy is worth a second contract you don't make that selection. I agree though it would probably be the best scenario to win next year. Edited March 2, 2017 by 4BillsintheBurgh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I also want to say I am in the "blow it up" camp but that doesn't mean it will take long. We keep our best players in Sammy and Marcel. This team has so many holes and we need to find a long term answer at QB. Keeping TT delays that process. The Bills are very good at steering themselves into crap situations. Look at last year where they spend 3 picks on an inside linebacker to save Rex's defense and one of the picks used would have been Dak Prescott! We need to stop trying to go for it when we are in a natural down year due to schedule and heavy FA loss. Let Tyrod go, clear cap space, acquire draft picks. With a great draft this year and next we will have a solid foundation AND we will have our QB for the future. I am okay with this strategy as well. I can suffer through a bad year or 2 while reloading. Those are the only options though IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 The Bucs are simply doing Glennon a favor to drive up his market value. If Brock Osweiler, who proved absolutely nothing more than Glennon as a pro (look at their numbers), got essentially 2 years, $36 million guaranteed, I would expect Glennon to be in for a nice payday. There's no way he stays with the Bucs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I think it will be tough for them to commit to Sammy and another first round wr long term, so unless they don't think Sammy is worth a second contract you don't make that selection. I agree though it would probably be the best scenario to win next year.Maybe but they will be so staggered that they will have time. They will have Davis for 5 years on his rookie deal. That gives them plenty of time to figure that out.The Bucs are simply doing Glennon a favor to drive up his market value. If Brock Osweiler, who proved absolutely nothing more than Glennon as a pro (look at their numbers), got essentially 2 years, $36 million guaranteed, I would expect Glennon to be in for a nice payday. There's no way he stays with the Bucs.Agreed, I don't know why but the Jets have always felt like the destination for him to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 The Bucs are simply doing Glennon a favor to drive up his market value. If Brock Osweiler, who proved absolutely nothing more than Glennon as a pro (look at their numbers), got essentially 2 years, $36 million guaranteed, I would expect Glennon to be in for a nice payday. There's no way he stays with the Bucs. I could see the Jets and Bears getting into an idiotic bidding war for him, rivaling Osweiler's deal and making Tyrod's deal look very good by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGBillsFan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I could see the Jets and Bears getting into an idiotic bidding war for him, rivaling Osweiler's deal and making Tyrod's deal look very good by comparison. Completely agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 He'll get at least 10 mil. Pry 12-14. Mark it down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) ...and yet he'd be the lowest paid starting vet (or something like that). No need to be sneaky by putting the guys around him whose contracts came up 1st. He'd be the 20th or so highest paid guy (roughly where he belongs). He will get that here or elsewhere. That's the market. No, it's you who's being sneaky. Pretty much nobody actually expects Tyrod to stay here for five years. Best bet is two. And if he stays for two, he'd be making $40.5 million - a guarantee that he is apparently unwilling to give up - for those two years. Which again is not the 20th best. Instead it puts him at $20.25 mill per year. And at that rate, the five closest QBs are Brady, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Philip Rivers and Eli Manning. He does not belong with that group in any form or fashion. Arguing that paying Glennon like RGIII or Chase Daniel somehow would support the idea of paying Tyrod like Brady, Ryan, Newton, Rivers or Eli Manning simply doesn't make sense. Edited March 3, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) People are stupid if they think Tyrod is a lot of money. Then they quote outdated payouts of other QBs but like I said the stupidity doesn't see that those deals were years ago. The best is when they Quote Brady as if anyone is Brady hahahahaha. God I love what this talk will turn into. People are stupid if they don't notice that in the years since those "outdated payouts of other QBs" nobody has been put above the numbers Tyrod would collect as his average salary for two years of work except these 13 guys: Andrew Luck Carson Palmer Drew Brees Kirk Cousins Joe Flacco Aaron Rodgers Russell Wilson Ben Roethlisberger Eli Manning Philip Rivers Cam Newton Matt Ryan Tom Brady That's it. Those are the only guys who make more than Tyrod would make per year if he stays for two years as seems the most likely scenario if they keep him. He is a lot of money. And again, he's Tyrod Taylor. I'm cool with the Bills paying TT $15mil per year. I mean for crying out loud Kirk Cousins is asking for about $26mil per year and quite frankly he's won the same amount of games as TT (albeit he's made the playoffs 2 times) he's lost them both on his home field. Stephon Gilmore will honestly be making more than TT this year and he's a CB. It isn't $15 mill per year. If he stays five years, the whole contract, it's $18 mill per year. If he stays two years, it's $20.5 mill per year. Edited March 3, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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