ExiledInIllinois Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Segregation, for all practice purposes, represented the middle ground between slavery and abolitionism. Not many people would say segregation was fair (or equal) -- yet it was the middle ground in between the two extremes. I doubt very much meathead would agree that segregation is the better choice because it lies in the center of two positions, yet he's essentially making that argument. Just trying to give a concrete example of how middle ground views can be deeply flawed compared to the other alternatives. Is it really middle ground? Plessy was 30 years after Civil War. Women still didn't have right to vote for another 20 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Is it really middle ground? Plessy was 30 years after Civil War. Women still didn't have right to vote for another 20 or so. "For all practical purposes" (Not practice, typing on the run) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) Wisdom exists in the center because the extremes are driven by polemic. exactly ive had this discussion hundreds of times. its always the partisans that have the biggest problem with it. thats bc of course they are heavily biased to one side and see the other as inferior and/or evil. to admit that wisdom resides in the center would devalue their invested partisanship, which of course they cant do and still remain in their clan and i will restate, if i havent responded to your post its bc you are playing the standard partisan 'gotcha' game, which i dont do if you really want me to respond to something, remove all partisan assumptions and accusations and resubmit Edited January 22, 2017 by Meathead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 exactly ive had this discussion hundreds of times. its always the partisans that have the biggest problem with it. thats bc of course they are heavily biased to one side and see the other as inferior and/or evil. to admit that wisdom resides in the center would devalue their invested partisanship, which of course they cant do and still remain in their clan and i will restate, if i havent responded to your post its bc you are playing the standard partisan 'gotcha' game, which i dont do if you really want me to respond to something, remove all partisan assumptions and accusations and resubmit Again, I'm as politically agnostic as it gets around here and I'll repeat: Wisdom SOMETIMES lies in the center but not always. Saying it always does is every bit as partisan as the people you're claiming are too blind to see through their partisanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 i have already stated that individual scenarios do not have to reside in the middle. the word i used was wisdom, not argument i realize this will take a while to sink in but im only going to repeat myself for a limited time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 i have already stated that individual scenarios do not have to reside in the middle. the word i used was wisdom, not argument i realize this will take a while to sink in but im only going to repeat myself for a limited time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 exactly ive had this discussion hundreds of times. its always the partisans that have the biggest problem with it. thats bc of course they are heavily biased to one side and see the other as inferior and/or evil. to admit that wisdom resides in the center would devalue their invested partisanship, which of course they cant do and still remain in their clan and i will restate, if i havent responded to your post its bc you are playing the standard partisan 'gotcha' game, which i dont do if you really want me to respond to something, remove all partisan assumptions and accusations and resubmit You will never get people here to understand it. What's more, you won't get Americans to understand it in the current climate. The entirety of political and social discourse is currently polemic-driven Again, I'm as politically agnostic as it gets around here and I'll repeat: Wisdom SOMETIMES lies in the center but not always. Saying it always does is every bit as partisan as the people you're claiming are too blind to see through their partisanship. Wisdom is always in the center, never in the extremes. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Yes. But a good businessman takes notice of his customers. Actually, a good businessman works to keep his current customers, then sets out to gain new ones, often from his competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) i think its always polemic driven. thats just how far we have developed as a general species yes its certainly worse right now, but thats a residual side effect from 9/11. when ppl get scared they intensify their effort to put a stanglehold on life. nothing is more threatening than their perceived rivals for that control most ppl reside in this big mass of partisans committed to whatever clan they align themselves with above all else and fail to see the benefit of multi-perspective analysis. hell, many of those people feel sacrilegious if they consider perspectives outside of their clan standards most people pick a template and cram themselves into it. they do so to be accepted and feel a sense of belonging. they dont realize they sacrifice a lot of themselves in the process. usually it takes many years to realize it Edited January 22, 2017 by Meathead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Segregation, for all practice purposes, represented the middle ground between slavery and abolitionism. Not many people would say segregation was fair (or equal) -- yet it was the middle ground in between the two extremes. I doubt very much meathead would agree that segregation is the better choice because it lies in the center of two positions, yet he's essentially making that argument. Just trying to give a concrete example of how middle ground views can be deeply flawed compared to the other alternatives. you're more eloquent than i am. woudl you also mention how such middle roads though, have polluted the political field by drawing voting maps that favor the incumbent and historical voting vs. the actual representation of the communities? specifically for EII and other idiots. if you redraw a map to further fortify a democratic or republican strong hold candidates get more radical left or right. they end up liek bernie sanders or rand paul. or elizabeth warren or such. republicans want to keep democrats in democrat districts to not get not interfere with areas they need to keep voting republican and vice versa. being middle of the road in these maps is not at all where you want to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I don't get why anyone would lump every Democrat in with one weirdo on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I don't get why anyone would lump every Democrat in with one weirdo on TV. well, the car they destroyed and torched was painted with "we the people." so they have to be speaking for all of themselves...amiright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I don't get why anyone would lump every Democrat in with one weirdo on TV. Same reason they lump every Republican in with one neo-Nazi !@#$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) exactly ive had this discussion hundreds of times. its always the partisans that have the biggest problem with it. thats bc of course they are heavily biased to one side and see the other as inferior and/or evil. to admit that wisdom resides in the center would devalue their invested partisanship, which of course they cant do and still remain in their clan and i will restate, if i havent responded to your post its bc you are playing the standard partisan 'gotcha' game, which i dont do if you really want me to respond to something, remove all partisan assumptions and accusations and resubmit You aren't worth discussing anything with then, because you deem anyone who disagrees with your stances as partisan. Your own assumptions about others invalidates any argument you might make, and you lack the intellectual honesty or courage to prove your assertions when asked to provide any examples of political issues where the man standing in the center holds moral authority or wisdom, outside of political expediency. To wit: you're exactly what you accuse everyone else of being, having staked yourself to your own pole, assuming it moral and just. The only difference being, you haven't attempted to defend your stances. Hell you haven't even articulated them, instead refusing to answer questions which attempt to map where you stand. Idiot. You will never get people here to understand it. What's more, you won't get Americans to understand it in the current climate. The entirety of political and social discourse is currently polemic-driven Wisdom is always in the center, never in the extremes. Period. In a Machiavellian sense only, and even then only when trying to control a populace. What you are describing as "wisdom" is not wise if it is not moral. The center is rarely moral. Edited January 23, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Actually, a good businessman works to keep his current customers, then sets out to gain new ones, often from his competitors. That too. He better start doing a better job! He'd gain a ton if he was going "stealth" with a healthcare for all plan. They sure would flock on over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 In a Machiavellian sense only, and even then only when trying to control a populace. What you are describing as "wisdom" is not wise if it is not moral. The center is rarely moral. No. That is an extremely warped definition of wisdom, confusing it with morality. And coming from just the person I expected it to come from, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) No. That is an extremely warped definition of wisdom, confusing it with morality. And coming from just the person I expected it to come from, too. Then I'll put it to you to define "wisdom" in this situation. I'll also offer that I'm not conflating or confusing wisdom and morality. My position is that "wisdom" as relates to politics and leadership depends on what your goals are. And if you wish to continue to assert that wisdom is in "the center", I'll ask you to explain how you, or anyone else, can claim a centrist (read wise) position without first reporting to your own biases, and staking yourself to them, without immediately becoming polemic yourself. Edited January 24, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Trump brought up the issue of his penis size in a national debate, so it's fair game. Trump brought that on himself. That's not true. It was Marco Rubio who brought that up... to the eternal infamy of his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Yep! Stop being a bunch of baby's. Deal with it. Pretty sure "libs" are dealing with it pretty much how most of this board "dealt" with BO....the hypocrisy is outstanding.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Pretty sure "libs" are dealing with it pretty much how most of this board "dealt" with BO....the hypocrisy is outstanding.. People here waited until President Obama had actually done something before criticizing his actions; and didn't criticize his Presidency until he had established a body of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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