DC Tom Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 hours ago, ALF said: Obama inherited a crashed economy , you knew that , had to have stimulus to prevent a depression. Two major wars to fund cost mega $ So now we're discussing deficit spending, and not debt? Why don't you just pick one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 21 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Ok, so look at today in the market... the jobs numbers and wage increases came out yesterday and were outstanding. Then, Powell didn't signal that the Feds (yet) had any plans to tank the economy. So, up 700+ points. Monday, someone could say Congress is going to pass X, Y, Z regulations that Trump will sign (unlikely, but as an example), and it will go down 500 points. ?♀️ Up, down, back up, back down... people have gone broke (and made fortunes) trying to read the stock market tea-leaves. i will say the volatility has been crazy lately( jeez wonder what else is volatile that could reflect?) ..but since January of last year, the market has been in either a holding pattern or a downward trend. While certainly not an absolute indicator of economic performance moving forward, it generally a good indicator of sentiment for the next 18-24 months. As you said so well in another post...no matter my dislike for Trump, I want this freaking economy to stay strong..I need it to stay strong for myriad reasons!!! I fear Trump is making the wrong moves..but sure hope it's me that's wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 8 minutes ago, DC Tom said: So now we're discussing deficit spending, and not debt? Why don't you just pick one? doesn't the former lead to the latter? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: doesn't the former lead to the latter? Considering that the debt has consistently increased since 1957, including during the Clinton "surplus," and often increases by more than the deficit, I'd suggest that perhaps...no it doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, DC Tom said: Considering that the debt has consistently increased since 1957, including during the Clinton "surplus," and often increases by more than the deficit, I'd suggest that perhaps...no it doesn't? I truly don't know....was hoping to learn something( not being sarcastic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, plenzmd1 said: I truly don't know....was hoping to learn something( not being sarcastic) I've never dug in to the details myself, just seen that "deficit" and "debt" are two very different things, that nonetheless too many people use interchangeably to prove whatever point they want to make. And people also like to conflate - purposely - overall debt and public debt, and mandatory and discretionary spending. It's ridiculously easy to oversimplify and confuse the issue. Which was where I was going with my original "Comparing Obama's $3T to Trump's $2T" post - it's ridiculously easy to portray them however you prefer. For example: Obama's $3T increase in debt represents about a 30% increase in the debt/GDP ratio (roughly from 60% to 90%) to a level considered constrictive to economic growth (over 70%) by the World Bank. Trump's $2T, on the other hand, is still a decrease to 99% debt/GDP from 104% when he took office, so it represents an improving situation. Right? Well...except that that 30% increase in Obama's first to years, being a ratio, represents an economic contraction as well as an increase in debt...so that's not even as bad as it looks at first...but during Obama's "economic growth," the debt/GDP ratio still increased by 15%...so that's bad compared to Trump's first to years, right? And then what if I told you that Trump's budget deficit for 2018 is $70B less that was forecast? That shows a measure of fiscal responsibility...that's good, despite the debt, right? Point being: whenever somebody chucks a single number at you out of context, they're lying to you. And odds are, they're even lying to themselves. There's only three people on this board I trust to discuss economic policy (not that I trust them to be right, I just know they're not talking completely out of their asses.) And ALF isn't one of them. Neither am I, for that matter - I just have a background that gives me a good domain-independent ability to spot bull####. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I know this part of the discussion was from a few days ago, but some more info on Apple's woes https://news.slashdot.org/story/19/01/04/2120254/netflixs-new-itunes-billing-policy-will-curb-a-256-million-revenue-stream-for-apple #orangemanbad 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Goat Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 13 hours ago, /dev/null said: I know this part of the discussion was from a few days ago, but some more info on Apple's woes https://news.slashdot.org/story/19/01/04/2120254/netflixs-new-itunes-billing-policy-will-curb-a-256-million-revenue-stream-for-apple #orangemanbad i was just coming to post about that!! Great minds! https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/01/04/app-store-war-between-netflix-apple-is-heating-up/?utm_term=.df9b2429390e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 18 hours ago, DC Tom said: I've never dug in to the details myself, just seen that "deficit" and "debt" are two very different things, that nonetheless too many people use interchangeably to prove whatever point they want to make. And people also like to conflate - purposely - overall debt and public debt, and mandatory and discretionary spending. It's ridiculously easy to oversimplify and confuse the issue. Which was where I was going with my original "Comparing Obama's $3T to Trump's $2T" post - it's ridiculously easy to portray them however you prefer. For example: Obama's $3T increase in debt represents about a 30% increase in the debt/GDP ratio (roughly from 60% to 90%) to a level considered constrictive to economic growth (over 70%) by the World Bank. Trump's $2T, on the other hand, is still a decrease to 99% debt/GDP from 104% when he took office, so it represents an improving situation. Right? Well...except that that 30% increase in Obama's first to years, being a ratio, represents an economic contraction as well as an increase in debt...so that's not even as bad as it looks at first...but during Obama's "economic growth," the debt/GDP ratio still increased by 15%...so that's bad compared to Trump's first to years, right? And then what if I told you that Trump's budget deficit for 2018 is $70B less that was forecast? That shows a measure of fiscal responsibility...that's good, despite the debt, right? Point being: whenever somebody chucks a single number at you out of context, they're lying to you. And odds are, they're even lying to themselves. There's only three people on this board I trust to discuss economic policy (not that I trust them to be right, I just know they're not talking completely out of their asses.) And ALF isn't one of them. Neither am I, for that matter - I just have a background that gives me a good domain-independent ability to spot bull####. Thanks, I feel better now, sort of. I was starting to worry about your mental state, but now I see I'm the one slowing down.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Ford Cancels a $1.6 Billion Mexico Plant and Adds 700 Jobs in Michigan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Foxx said: Ford Cancels a $1.6 Billion Mexico Plant and Adds 700 Jobs in Michigan 2-year old news? What are you using, dial-up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: 2-year old news? What are you using, dial-up? lol, my bad. forgot to check the date. thanks for the check. it was on DT Jr. twitter a couple days ago.... Edited January 9, 2019 by Foxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, Foxx said: lol, my bad. forgot to check the date. thanks for the check. it was on DT Jr. twitter a couple days ago.... It happens a lot around here, so I've become accustomed to checking dates. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: It happens a lot around here, so I've become accustomed to checking dates. i generally do as well but it is hard to catch every little thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Did you guys hear the latest? A Constitutional Amendment was just passed allowing women the right to vote! Those damned suffragettes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 23 hours ago, Koko78 said: Did you guys hear the latest? A Constitutional Amendment was just passed allowing women the right to vote! Those damned suffragettes! Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Link? I can't. I heard it over the telegraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Koko78 said: I can't. I heard it over the telegraph. That's a fine tuned ear to recall Morse code blips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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