Gilmore Thread

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

P51 and Bandit .. love it!!! Great stuff. Keep it coming!

[Jerry Jabber]

 

Just keep throwing out insults instead of backing up your claim; I promise it's working really well. I'm sure 100% of the folks reading this thread are being won over to your POV.

 

First off, this isn't a political election, so I'm not looking for the popular vote here. Second, if you don't like the terms "fan-boy" and "troll," then you shouldn't have acted the way you did.

 

So we're back to marginalizing the good performances in order to make your point?

 

Manning threw for 817 yards in the 3 games following the Bills game. In fact, his 3rd-highest full-game QB rating of 2014 came in the very next game against SD, in which he complete 70% of his throws en route to an easy victory.

 

Oh, and since I know "SD sucks!!11!!1!" is the next thing coming, let me head that off right now: they had the No. 4 ranked pass defense in 2014, one spot behind Buffalo.

 

I see you're manipulating stats to your advantage. The 11 games played previous to the Bills game, Manning had eight games where he threw for three or more TD's. Once he tore his Quad in the Bills game, he had zero games of throwing three or more TD's and finished the remaining three games with three TD's and four INT's.

 

If you believe that, then I'm afraid you simply don't know how to read. The corners were flat-out bad in the Jets game, as I've said both in this thread and in the Gilmore thread that followed the Jets' game (which I'm sure you didn't see, because you keep ignorantly banging the "fan boy" drum). What I am saying, for about the 12th time, is that one game should not carry more weight than a 5-year career. For you, somehow, it does, and frankly that's a very poor analytical method.

 

If you have all day to read every single post from every single member on TBD, then that means you're either retired and have all the free time in the world, or you have no job. If you're retired, congrats!

 

Says the guy that posted a PFF grade on Gilmore that dates back 4 years as his first source

 

You got me on that one. I searched for last years stats on Gilmore and didn't see it was from four years ago. Bottom line, I feel Gilmore is a good CB, but he's no Peterson or Sherman, but Gilmore wants to be paid as such. Also, I hope the days of drafting CB's/Safeties/RB's in the first round are over with as they rarely get resigned in Buffalo. IMO, it's a waste of a pick if the player turns out to be really good and he's only here for his rookie contract.

[thebandit27]

 

 

 

First off, this isn't a political election, so I'm not looking for the popular vote here. Second, if you don't like the terms "fan-boy" and "troll," then you shouldn't have acted the way you did.

 

 

 

 

Don't worry about me, Jerry. I don't get offended. Ever. It was some friendly advice that insult-hurling isn't helping your argument.

 

 

 

 

 

I see you're manipulating stats to your advantage. The 11 games played previous to the Bills game, Manning had eight games where he threw for three or more TD's. Once he tore his Quad in the Bills game, he had zero games of throwing three or more TD's and finished the remaining three games with three TD's and four INT's.

 

 

 

There's no way to manipulate numbers--they simply are what they are...and again, you're the one attempting to marginalize Manning in order to hang your hat on the idea that the CBs didn't play well against him, which isn't even a logical conclusion.

 

 

 

 

If you have all day to read every single post from every single member on TBD, then that means you're either retired and have all the free time in the world, or you have no job. If you're retired, congrats!

 

 

 

The point here is simple: if you feel emboldened enough to call someone a troll or a fan boy, my advice is to have the first clue who you're talking to, else you look foolish.

 

 

 

 

You got me on that one. I searched for last years stats on Gilmore and didn't see it was from four years ago. Bottom line, I feel Gilmore is a good CB, but he's no Peterson or Sherman, but Gilmore wants to be paid as such. Also, I hope the days of drafting CB's/Safeties/RB's in the first round are over with as they rarely get resigned in Buffalo. IMO, it's a waste of a pick if the player turns out to be really good and he's only here for his rookie contract.

 

 

I have no problem with paying him premium dollars to stay. As long as they're smart about the structure of the deal and leave themselves an out after 3 years. That way, they have the flexibility to choose whether they want to let Gilmore walk and pay Darby, the younger player.

 

They've also shown that they can get solid play at other positions like ILB and EDGE with lesser talents, so paying up for a corner isn't a non-starter.

[Kelly the Dog]

The thing about the Jet game, too, is that it happened, and it counts, but it was an anamoly. Darby and Gilmore were on their guys most of the afternoon. Fitz made a ridiculous amount of ridiculous passes he is not going to make again and proves it over and over. The Jet receivers were making a ridiculous amount of ridiculous catches in traffic or on the sidelines or at the top of their jumps. It was a weird game. What it wasn't was Jet receivers constantly beating the DBs badly. That happened, but not much.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Kelly the Dog

[Jerry Jabber]

 

Don't worry about me, Jerry. I don't get offended. Ever. It was some friendly advice that insult-hurling isn't helping your argument.

 

 

 

There's no way to manipulate numbers--they simply are what they are...and again, you're the one attempting to marginalize Manning in order to hang your hat on the idea that the CBs didn't play well against him, which isn't even a logical conclusion.

 

 

 

The point here is simple: if you feel emboldened enough to call someone a troll or a fan boy, my advice is to have the first clue who you're talking to, else you look foolish.

 

 

 

I have no problem with paying him premium dollars to stay. As long as they're smart about the structure of the deal and leave themselves an out after 3 years. That way, they have the flexibility to choose whether they want to let Gilmore walk and pay Darby, the younger player.

 

They've also shown that they can get solid play at other positions like ILB and EDGE with lesser talents, so paying up for a corner isn't a non-starter.

 

If you look at the production Manning had before he tore his Quad, his numbers went down significantly after the injury.

 

What concerns me with our secondary is that they look great against sub-par/mediocre teams, but get lit up against the elite teams. Honestly, I hope the Jets game was just an anomaly, but when you look at Fitzpatrick's career and how inconsistent he's been, it was very disheartening to see our secondary get burnt all game long.

 

In regards to the contract, the Bills are already close to the cap. There are a lot of other players and positions that the Bills will need cap room for. For next year, the only WR under contract is Watkins, so the Bills will have to pick up some WR's in FA and/or draft players at that position. Watkins contract will be coming up in a couple of years and with Whaley moving up to draft him, you know he's going to want to keep him. I'm not sure how long Zach Brown and Lorax are under contract for, but the Bills have some decisions they need to make with those two. Do the Bills give those two a pay increase/longer contract or do they let them walk?

[CommonCents]

 

Don't worry about me, Jerry. I don't get offended. Ever. It was some friendly advice that insult-hurling isn't helping your argument.

 

 

 

There's no way to manipulate numbers--they simply are what they are...and again, you're the one attempting to marginalize Manning in order to hang your hat on the idea that the CBs didn't play well against him, which isn't even a logical conclusion.

 

 

 

The point here is simple: if you feel emboldened enough to call someone a troll or a fan boy, my advice is to have the first clue who you're talking to, else you look foolish.

 

 

 

I have no problem with paying him premium dollars to stay. As long as they're smart about the structure of the deal and leave themselves an out after 3 years. That way, they have the flexibility to choose whether they want to let Gilmore walk and pay Darby, the younger player.

 

They've also shown that they can get solid play at other positions like ILB and EDGE with lesser talents, so paying up for a corner isn't a non-starter.

Speaking of high play from backers, the Pats fans are going nuts over Elandon Roberts after yesterday's game. Good call on that one, so far.

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you and mike are right and ypp.com needs to look a little deeper.

 

* I do not know the play call *

 

I played CB/SS (through 1AA under a great secondary coach) and have coached the secondary before (at the high school level), this is primarily Darby's fault all day IMO. He's not in zone (it doesnt make sense), there is no way watching the other players, AW is the SHS, Z. Brown Band is either a spy or a zone defender(possible robber concept), everyone else is manning up, head up on their coverage responsibility (Graham on the TE, P. Brown on the RB, R-C on the slot/Kerley and so on) and covers that guy post snap. I'd bet AW was peaking in the backfield or at something he shouldnt be, his single responsibility looking at it presnap and what happened post snap was to not let anyone get over the top of him (should be), and especially T. Smith... Which makes me believe secondarily he is culpable as well. Even if Darby was playing some sort of zone from that far off, it should still be his primary responsibility to cover the deep field.

 

p.s. I dont know the defensive play call, but roughly 20 years of secondary related experience tells me #28 and #23 were the responsible parties on this play not #24. Seconds 11-18 of the youtube video link sums all of this up, the all 22 should confirm it. Thats my .02...

OK, great breakdown, but you fail to mention who Gilmore was covering if Darby f'd up? Because Gilmore had nothing but space around him on that play.

[thebandit27]

OK, great breakdown, but you fail to mention who Gilmore was covering if Darby f'd up? Because Gilmore had nothing but space around him on that play.

 

He had the interior slot guy who ran a 1-route to the flat.

Speaking of high play from backers, the Pats fans are going nuts over Elandon Roberts after yesterday's game. Good call on that one, so far.

 

Hopefully I'll be wrong in the long run

[dave mcbride]

The bigger picture: our opponents' collective passer rating is 77.3, which is dismal. ALL teams and ALL corners give up big plays on occasion. Only five teams are better: KC (76.9), Seattle (74.9), and Denver (71.0), Arizona (69.7), and Minnesota (65.3). 26 teams are worse.

 

Always keep in mind that the NFL is currently designed to enhance the passing game. The bottom line: while they certainly aren't the entire reason the Bills' pass D is so good, it's pretty clear that they have good CBs. They aren't perfect, but they're a better group than what the vast majority of teams have.

[Ron Burgundy]

Rex probably has his eye on that corner from Clemson (Tankersly). I think they'd like to sign Gilmore, but won't break the bank to do it.

 

Yeah. I also think had Kaep been close to decent as a passer we would have been exposed quite a bit more. Luckily he's terrible. I think we find another CB and move on, wish him the best. If he agrees to a reasonable contract then keep him. By no means am i basing this off of one play, i just see him beat way too much to call him elite and that's the money he will command.

The bigger picture: our opponents' collective passer rating is 77.3, which is dismal. ALL teams and ALL corners give up big plays on occasion. Only five teams are better: KC (76.9), Seattle (74.9), and Denver (71.0), Arizona (69.7), and Minnesota (65.3). 26 teams are worse.

 

Always keep in mind that the NFL is currently designed to enhance the passing game. The bottom line: while they certainly aren't the entire reason the Bills' pass D is so good, it's pretty clear that they have good CBs. They aren't perfect, but they're a better group than what the vast majority of teams have.

 

It's a good point but who have we played so far? New England's 3rd stringer and Collin Kaepernick's first game back have accounted for 1/3 of our season so far. The one time someone strictly game-planned to beat us in the air the Jet's hurt us bad.

 

I want to believe you're right. New England will be such a big test.

[PO16FFS]

How you doing Bandit?

 

I've always liked your posts and its true, you are always positive and dont go down the " Trump " road.

 

Game 1: Flacco

Game 2 : Fitz

Game 3: Palmer

Game 4: 3rd stringer Rookie

Game 5: I couldnt even tell ya cuz I was working

Game 6: Kaepernick ( First game in 1 year )

 

 

During the games, if a QB wants to pass toward Gilmore, he will without worrying about SG24

 

Gilmore has not shown any flash. He does a good job but in his first 4 years he has taken stupid penalties, looked lost at times, looked disinterested at times, trouble tackling.

 

In my humble opinion he's a JAG.

 

All the best and keep your great posts coming.

[mikemac2001]

I love how we are arguing a blown coverage

 

We gave them 10 points

 

The fumbled hand off and the td

 

Other then that the defense gave up 6 points

[CommonCents]

I love how we are arguing a blown coverage

 

We gave them 10 points

 

The fumbled hand off and the td

 

Other then that the defense gave up 6 points

Torrey did get behind everyone twice yesterday, I'm sure they will be working on communication to clean that up. Kap missed an easy one earlier in the game, IIRC it was Darby trailing on the play.

[mikemac2001]

Torrey did get behind everyone twice yesterday, I'm sure they will be working on communication to clean that up. Kap missed an easy one earlier in the game, IIRC it was Darby trailing on the play.

Yes but they also had in the plan to make kap beat them with his arm

[CommonCents]

Yes but they also had in the plan to make kap beat them with his arm

Which would probably mean to take away big plays and force him to dink and dunk down the field. Either way those mistakes are better mad vs. bad QB's. They have two weeks to fine tune things and see where we stand.

[thebandit27]

How you doing Bandit?

 

I've always liked your posts and its true, you are always positive and dont go down the " Trump " road.

 

Game 1: Flacco

Game 2 : Fitz

Game 3: Palmer

Game 4: 3rd stringer Rookie

Game 5: I couldnt even tell ya cuz I was working

Game 6: Kaepernick ( First game in 1 year )

 

 

During the games, if a QB wants to pass toward Gilmore, he will without worrying about SG24

 

Gilmore has not shown any flash. He does a good job but in his first 4 years he has taken stupid penalties, looked lost at times, looked disinterested at times, trouble tackling.

 

In my humble opinion he's a JAG.

 

All the best and keep your great posts coming.

I'm good dude, how's things in the southern continent?

 

My biggest beefs with Gilmore are ball awareness and his poor tackling technique.

 

I do like that his best game this year came against the best QB they faced.

 

I would love to see him turn in a stellar performance against Brady in 2 weeks, but I have a feeling Brady will do as he always does and take what the defense gives him.

 

We shall see.

[JM57]

 

Gilmore is too inconsistent and is not worth the asking price (Top 5 CB). You can stop the fan-boy love for him.

Gilmore is the new EJ around here apparently. You either hate him and think he's trash or you're a fanboy homer. Okay.

[Jerry Jabber]

Gilmore is the new EJ around here apparently. You either hate him and think he's trash or you're a fanboy homer. Okay.

That's nice

[Marty McFly]

This was Gilmores assignment, if you look pre-snap and how fast Darby goes to the flat. Im not gonna crucify Gilmore off this one brain fart.

[BrooklynBills]

What's happened to the Carolina secondary this year will weigh in on how this situation is approached IMO. They lost Norman and their secondary has not recovered. I don't think Gilmore is as good, but he is a very good CB and would be alot of team's #1.

 

I think the solution is very simple. You franchise him this off-season with the intent to replace him with a cheaper player in the draft. I would look at CB in the first 3 rounds next draft and if you don't find a good player you still another draft or FA to replace him the following season. He already makes $11 million towards this year's cap so a franchise tag is only a $3 mil raise against the cap.