Gugny Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Well, since I never said anything about fascism, you're arguing that point against the wrong person. I also never said that police killing people isn't a problem; what I said is that the statistics don't support the assertion that police are targeting and killing unarmed black people and getting rewarded for it, which is what Kaep said. I also never said that he couldn't protest as he is; not even close actually. I said that the centerpiece of his argument is something that is very difficult to support statistically, and so people have a hard time taking him seriously. I have a hard time seeing him as a hero for kneeling during a song. Pat Tillman was a hero. Mohammed Ali was a hero. Joe Delaney was a hero. This guy? Not in my opinion. I'm sure there are other stats out there, but I just found this one that does support the assertion that there is a problem with police killing unarmed minorities (not targeting): Race remains the most volatile flash point in any accounting of police shootings. Although black men make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population, they account for 40 percent of the unarmed men shot to death by police this year, The Post’s database shows. In the majority of cases in which police shot and killed a person who had attacked someone with a weapon or brandished a gun, the person who was shot was white. But a hugely disproportionate number — 3 in 5 — of those killed after exhibiting less threatening behavior were black or Hispanic. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/12/26/a-year-of-reckoning-police-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000/ I am pro-police and I have always thought theirs is among the most underpaid professions in our country. But I also think it's safe to say that there is a real problem with unarmed minorities being shot and killed (murdered) by police officers in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) I'm sure there are other stats out there, but I just found this one that does support the assertion that there is a problem with police killing unarmed minorities (not targeting): Race remains the most volatile flash point in any accounting of police shootings. Although black men make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population, they account for 40 percent of the unarmed men shot to death by police this year, The Posts database shows. In the majority of cases in which police shot and killed a person who had attacked someone with a weapon or brandished a gun, the person who was shot was white. But a hugely disproportionate number 3 in 5 of those killed after exhibiting less threatening behavior were black or Hispanic. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/12/26/a-year-of-reckoning-police-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000/ I am pro-police and I have always thought theirs is among the most underpaid professions in our country. But I also think it's safe to say that there is a real problem with unarmed minorities being shot and killed (murdered) by police officers in this country. your source is the Washington post. Why not the new York daily news or star? Comey, the Obama lap dog even can out and said the federal study on this is showing there is not the epidemic media makies it to be... and this is the FBI who has taken over precincts, arrested scapegoats and pushed the BLM as much as anyone to their fame. The evidence does not support it and WaPo is horribly flawed. There are thousands of sources without extrapolated data showing this Edit. Also hilarious because factual data shows a majority of the black dudes shot by police that were unarmed were black cops... Edited October 17, 2016 by Boyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Edit. Also hilarious because factual data shows a majority of the black dudes shot by police that were unarmed were black cops... Why is that relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I'm sure there are other stats out there, but I just found this one that does support the assertion that there is a problem with police killing unarmed minorities (not targeting): Race remains the most volatile flash point in any accounting of police shootings. Although black men make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population, they account for 40 percent of the unarmed men shot to death by police this year, The Post’s database shows. In the majority of cases in which police shot and killed a person who had attacked someone with a weapon or brandished a gun, the person who was shot was white. But a hugely disproportionate number — 3 in 5 — of those killed after exhibiting less threatening behavior were black or Hispanic. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/12/26/a-year-of-reckoning-police-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000/ I am pro-police and I have always thought theirs is among the most underpaid professions in our country. But I also think it's safe to say that there is a real problem with unarmed minorities being shot and killed (murdered) by police officers in this country. What WaPo wants you to do here is assume that since black men account for 6% of the population, they only account for about 6% of total interactions with the police as well, which is false. That 40% number doesn't look so high once you realize that. This is of course not to say that there isn't a problem with police shootings in this country. But the whole "lies, damn lies, and statistics" thing is highly relevant in articles like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Why is that relevant?its not a race problem that many want it to be Of course IMO which is that of the beat scholars in this universe... this whole problem is no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LA Grant Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 your source is the Washington post. Why not the new York daily news or star? Comey, the Obama lap dog even can out and said the federal study on this is showing there is not the epidemic media makies it to be... and this is the FBI who has taken over precincts, arrested scapegoats and pushed the BLM as much as anyone to their fame. The evidence does not support it and WaPo is horribly flawed. There are thousands of sources without extrapolated data showing this Edit. Also hilarious because factual data shows a majority of the black dudes shot by police that were unarmed were black cops... You need to take an IQ test, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Probably worth locking since the game has come and gone. Not sure what's wrong with discussing it. What's sad is to see the blatant racism and ignorance throughout 11 pages of comments. But that's not surprising to me anymore. No, I and others have put some genuinely meaningful questions out there to be answered and so far only crickets in response. Edited October 17, 2016 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 its not a race problem that many want it to be Of course IMO which is that of the beat scholars in this universe... this whole problem is no problem So, black people can't be racist towards other black people. Got it. Racism, prejudice, etc. don't always take on the guise of malevolence. Any inclusion/exclusion or qualification based on race is in itself racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) I'm sure there are other stats out there, but I just found this one that does support the assertion that there is a problem with police killing unarmed minorities (not targeting): Race remains the most volatile flash point in any accounting of police shootings. Although black men make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population, they account for 40 percent of the unarmed men shot to death by police this year, The Post’s database shows. In the majority of cases in which police shot and killed a person who had attacked someone with a weapon or brandished a gun, the person who was shot was white. But a hugely disproportionate number — 3 in 5 — of those killed after exhibiting less threatening behavior were black or Hispanic. http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/12/26/a-year-of-reckoning-police-fatally-shoot-nearly-1000/ I am pro-police and I have always thought theirs is among the most underpaid professions in our country. But I also think it's safe to say that there is a real problem with unarmed minorities being shot and killed (murdered) by police officers in this country. The stat you cite is meant to deceive. It does not take into account the numbers of people engaged with the police and for what reason and if the shooting is/was justified. Very few shootings regardless of color of officers or victims have been shown to be unjustified. I'll say again that unjust shootings are tragic but there have been almost none since this issue bubbled up to the top that have been shown to be unjust and even fewer both unjust and racially motivated. Now if people don't like the rules of engagement under which the police operate, namely to eliminate the threat when there is one, then they need to work to change those laws. Edited October 17, 2016 by keepthefaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 if you want to assert that coerced flag-worship is not an inherently fascist practice, then that really is it for you. and your so-called "false narrative" of black people disproportionately being the victims of unjust policing is not false. Are you really this thick? I want your definition of fascism and you can't give me one. As for your 2nd part, this is all any of you need: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Are you really this thick? I want your definition of fascism and you can't give me one. As for your 2nd part, this is all any of you need: This is exactly what I have been trying to tell people. I am so glad someone finally put it all together. The 13% of the population and 40% of homicides by police is so misleading, and now that people are realizing that, it seems they are skewing it even more by cutting it in half to 6% to include only black men. What WaPo wants you to do here is assume that since black men account for 6% of the population, they only account for about 6% of total interactions with the police as well, which is false. That 40% number doesn't look so high once you realize that. This is of course not to say that there isn't a problem with police shootings in this country. But the whole "lies, damn lies, and statistics" thing is highly relevant in articles like that. It's a shame that this went ignored. It was a very valid point. Edited October 17, 2016 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 In that same vein, the numbers are something like 2% are women, when they make up 51% of the population. So, are we to believe that cops are sexist and it's open season on men - or do men get into these type of encounters at a higher rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 You need to take an IQ test, man. 141, iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 So I turn on NFL Network after the game to see the Bills highlights. After waiting 45 minutes they finally get around to it. Do we get to see McCoy, Tyrod? Yes, but they were overwhelmed but "highlights" of Kaep. You would think from the way they were singing his praises he actually played a good game and didn't just get shellacked by 29 points. This guy pisses enough people off and then to have his substandard performance shoved down your throat is it any wonder why the NFL ratings are taking a hit? I was listening to the local SF sports talk radio. One guy was praising Kaep for his running and his great QB rating. One guy chimes in and says "umm did you see the score??" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 In that same vein, the numbers are something like 2% are women, when they make up 51% of the population. So, are we to believe that cops are sexist and it's open season on men - or do men get into these type of encounters at a higher rate. Exactly. #malelivesmatter There are a variety of reasons why blacks are interacting with police more. This idea that crime has to be equal among races is as stupid as saying crime has to be equal among sexes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 I really think it's safe to say that there is a problem with unarmed people being shot by police, regardless of race or gender. I also think that police are "scared," for lack of a better term, and they have every right to be. I also think that most, as in over 90%, police officers are NOT dirty - but that's just my gut throwing out that percentage. I can understand why a police officer would shoot a person if there was a chance that the person had a gun. It only takes a split second and I don't envy them for having to be in that situation or for having to make that decision so quickly. But let's be honest, here - it seems more and more that we're seeing people being killed by police officers in situations that are clearly not life threatening. We're seeing people shot in the back trying to run away. I know it's the exception and not the rule, but I still see it as a problem. I think it's downright silly to not acknowledge that racial profiling is happening and blacks are being mistreated (by police and others) in this country. Kaepernick has a lot of people talking about it, so his mission has silently and respectfully been accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Game is over. If you want to continue this discussion, take it to the politics board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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