NoSaint Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Great. Then we all agree. He voluntarily made himself a non-factor. Rex was and remains entirely unrelated. I very clearly said "who knows - it could be any number of issues or a combo there of" One of which was not believing in a system that's nonfunctional... which may have been the case last year Edited October 19, 2016 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Frankly my deers, he doesn't give a damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 It doesn't have to be one thing. My view on last year was he tried but was badly utilised up until the Wembley game. After that I felt like he totally mailed it in and the stats told the same story. Whilst he didn't have the success of previous years his sack and tackle numbers up to the Jags game were a darn sight better than his numbers after that. However, having watched him this year I think not being put in ideal position to make plays, plus him quitting on the season was also exacerbated by a physical decline. Top end pass rushers (which Mario in his prime unquestionably was) are often like top end Quarterbacks. There is no steady decline... there is cliff and the drop is steep and sudden. I think Mario is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 It doesn't have to be one thing. My view on last year was he tried but was badly utilised up until the Wembley game. After that I felt like he totally mailed it in and the stats told the same story. Whilst he didn't have the success of previous years his sack and tackle numbers up to the Jags game were a darn sight better than his numbers after that. However, having watched him this year I think not being put in ideal position to make plays, plus him quitting on the season was also exacerbated by a physical decline. Top end pass rushers (which Mario in his prime unquestionably was) are often like top end Quarterbacks. There is no steady decline... there is cliff and the drop is steep and sudden. I think Mario is finished. He's certainly not getting another 12 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Great. Then we all agree. He voluntarily made himself a non-factor. Rex was and remains entirely unrelated. Ha - repeat fiction enough it becomes true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Mario requires 7 players in coverage, a running start at the QB, 2 pro bowl DTs to his left, and 3rd down to get sacks. Without Dareus, that style of defense appeared to be toothless. The current scheme seems to showcase players who are intelligent and hungry. Mario is still a great edge setter, but he is too old and big to get consistent pressure on the QB without that 9 spacing. He is still a quality DE run defender. If he were to change his name he would likely be paid less, but current expectations would be perhaps a little more realistic. I never expected the current D-line to play this well without Dareus, but then perhaps we should thank the offense for getting early leads and avoiding long stretches of having to defend against the running game? Perhaps Dareus will represent the ability to win games when the offense only scores 14? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) @SalSports According to Dolphins weekly release, Richie Incognito is MIA media conference call. As per @john_wawrow, Mario Williams declined BUF media Edited October 19, 2016 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 He is not as good a player as he once was, and the physical decline (i.e., first step/quickness) was clearly evident last year. That's the root of his problem, and that's largely why he's a complete non-producer in Miami right now (that and being a malingerer, of course). I actually started writing that post as a joke---and things just took a turn. Seriously, though, both coach and player share in Mario's demise, IMO. You are probably right, Mario might just be past the point where he can really improve his game (from a talent perspective), but he COULD try a hell of a lot harder, if he decided to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 It doesn't have to be one thing. My view on last year was he tried but was badly utilised up until the Wembley game. After that I felt like he totally mailed it in and the stats told the same story. Whilst he didn't have the success of previous years his sack and tackle numbers up to the Jags game were a darn sight better than his numbers after that. However, having watched him this year I think not being put in ideal position to make plays, plus him quitting on the season was also exacerbated by a physical decline. Top end pass rushers (which Mario in his prime unquestionably was) are often like top end Quarterbacks. There is no steady decline... there is cliff and the drop is steep and sudden. I think Mario is finished. I think Rex had two very costly missteps in his first year as Bills coach: Trying to merge his system with Schwartz's Not benching Mario The success of the defense so far this year and the continuation of Mario's wallowing (now with his THIRD team) serves as enough of a control (to date) for me to determine that Mario--and not Rex--was the reason his for his lack of 2015 production. Ha - repeat fiction enough it becomes true? Anything that's been my opinion has been clearly couched as such. Everything else has been pristinely factual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I think Rex had two very costly missteps in his first year as Bills coach: Trying to merge his system with Schwartz's Not benching Mario The success of the defense so far this year and the continuation of Mario's wallowing (now with his THIRD team) serves as enough of a control (to date) for me to determine that Mario--and not Rex--was the reason his for his lack of 2015 production. But surely you accept that number 1 of your list above played some part in the decline in his production? Is it really your position that it was 100% Mario not trying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) But surely you accept that number 1 of your list above played some part in the decline in his production? Is it really your position that it was 100% Mario not trying? Which is it X's and O's or Jimmies and Joes? I have consistently harped on this message board for a decade that it's predominately Jimmes and Joes. If a player's success teeters upon an exact set of conditions, then that player is not a great player, period, end of story. Mario Williams has all the makings of a great player. He's even performed like a great player can. But it's become crystal !@#$ing clear that during his 10 year professional career, greatness for him is voluntary. It's not about scheme. It doesn't matter who's lined up next to him. It doesn't matter down and distance. It doesn't matter winning or losing. If he chose to dominate, he could and he would. Is it easier for him to dominate in some schemes or under certain circumstances? Absolutely, and that's fine. What isn't fine is that fans give him a pass because they believe he's justified in playing as if failure to meet those conditions makes for a prohibitive environment wherein success is impossible. I roundly reject that premise, particularly for a player of Mario's talent. So when you ask about percentage of blame, I have to shake my head. Shut up, Mario. Do your job. Edited October 19, 2016 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Mario requires 7 players in coverage, a running start at the QB, 2 pro bowl DTs to his left, and 3rd down to get sacks. To be fair - he has Suh and Wake. They're pretty good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Which is it X's and O's or Jimmies and Joes? I have consistently harped on this message board for a decade that it's predominately Jimmes and Joes. If a player's success teeters upon an exact set of conditions, then that player is not a great player, period, end of story. Mario Williams has all the makings of a great player. He's even performed like a great player can. But it's become crystal !@#$ing clear that during his 10 year professional career, greatness for him is voluntary. It's not about scheme. It doesn't matter who's lined up next to him. It doesn't matter down and distance. It doesn't matter winning or losing. If he chose to dominate, he could and he would. Is it easier for him to dominate in some schemes or under certain circumstances? Absolutely, and that's fine. What isn't fine is that fans give him a pass because they believe he's justified in playing as if failure to meet those conditions makes for a prohibitive environment wherein success is impossible. I roundly reject that premise, particularly for a player of Mario's talent. So when you ask about percentage of blame, I have to shake my head. Shut up, Mario. Do your job. For the record I never gave Mario a pass. The answer is there on film. Up until Wembley he was playing okay but was less productive - that for me was largely scheme (though seeing him this year I now think it may also have been decline). After Wembley he was atrocious - that for me was Mario mailing it in. If anyone wants to go and watch the film back the evidence is there the difference is noticeable. So no "pass" is being given to Mario here. The only pass I see is you saying that Rex was entirely blameless. I simply don't believe that to be true and the tape doesn't indicate that either. It suggests that up to week 7 at least there was some responsibility on the staff. I'm not trying to pin you to percentages and say was it 60% Mario quitting or 80% Mario quitting. I am simply saying there was more at play than JUST a disgruntled player... and that is true however badly Mario let this team and its fans down in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 For the record I never gave Mario a pass. The answer is there on film. Up until Wembley he was playing okay but was less productive - that for me was largely scheme (though seeing him this year I now think it may also have been decline). After Wembley he was atrocious - that for me was Mario mailing it in. If anyone wants to go and watch the film back the evidence is there the difference is noticeable. So no "pass" is being given to Mario here. The only pass I see is you saying that Rex was entirely blameless. I simply don't believe that to be true and the tape doesn't indicate that either. It suggests that up to week 7 at least there was some responsibility on the staff. I'm not trying to pin you to percentages and say was it 60% Mario quitting or 80% Mario quitting. I am simply saying there was more at play than JUST a disgruntled player... and that is true however badly Mario let this team and its fans down in 2015. Yes, and as I very clearly stated, Rex had two substantial mistakes in 2015, and one of them was not benching Mario. For that reason alone he is not "blameless." Rex pulled his sarcastic "I can't coach routine" once Mario was out the door citing Ray Lewis and Suggs as All-Pros and DPOY's in a back-handed, self-serving way of suggesting had Mario just STFU and done his job, both he AND the team would have looked much better. Well, LorAx and Zach Brown certainly make Rex look vindicated in that, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 :lol: This Gase guy is good....really good. @JoeBuscaglia Dolphins HC Adam Gase on Mario Williams only getting 13 snaps: We were moving things around. Wanted to use him as efficiently as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Rex was and remains entirely unrelated. You said this Big Cat. Rex wasn't entirely unrelated. The first 7 games Rex was entirely related. Now of course Mario should have shut up and got on with his job and tried his ass off as so many of us who do jobs where we don't always agree with our bosses have to do. I have never defended him from that. He let this team down ans actually let himself down too. As for Lorax and Zach vindicating Rex - I couldn't have been clearer about how good a job he has done in recent weeks and how good a job the defense has done. Hell, I started a thread on this very board to allow us to track and document that as the season goes on. None of that vindicates the mess he made in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 You said this Big Cat. Rex wasn't entirely unrelated. The first 7 games Rex was entirely related. Now of course Mario should have shut up and got on with his job and tried his ass off as so many of us who do jobs where we don't always agree with our bosses have to do. I have never defended him from that. He let this team down ans actually let himself down too. As for Lorax and Zach vindicating Rex - I couldn't have been clearer about how good a job he has done in recent weeks and how good a job the defense has done. Hell, I started a thread on this very board to allow us to track and document that as the season goes on. None of that vindicates the mess he made in 2015. I think what Big Cat was getting at (and he can correct me) was that the Rex issue was unrelated to the Mario issue. Mario sucked last year and it is on Mario that he sucked. It seems he is positing that Mario is to blame for Mario and Rex is to blame for the units overall failing not the failures of Mario individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanCity Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I get the feeling that Mario will mail it in for 14 of 16 games this year. The other two? vs. The Bills. Mills better be ready because I can see an angry Mario coming at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 @JaySkurski Rex pressed on Mario Williams, laughs and says: I'll say this about Mario Williams. He's been a really good football player in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I think what Big Cat was getting at (and he can correct me) was that the Rex issue was unrelated to the Mario issue. Mario sucked last year and it is on Mario that he sucked. It seems he is positing that Mario is to blame for Mario and Rex is to blame for the units overall failing not the failures of Mario individually. And what I am saying is that I only believe they were totally unrelated from week 8 onwards. Before that part of Mario sucking was on Rex Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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