BuffaloBud Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Interesting article in the News today about One Seneca Tower. http://www.buffalonews.com/business/real-estate/ciminelli-calls-for-one-seneca-tower-to-be-demolished-20160727 I realize that many of us, myself included, do not live in the area anymore and have no vested interest. What would you do? Keep or trash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 It seems insane to demolish it vs. rehabbing for multi-use. No way should the Gov't pay $100M to subsidize redevelopment. That is an insane waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 I like the idea of reducing it by 20 floors or so. Maybe you could re-use the concrete panels elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 It seems insane to demolish it vs. rehabbing for multi-use. No way should the Gov't pay $100M to subsidize redevelopment. That is an insane waste of money. Well atleast the Buffalo Billion (NYS Gov) is giving $125,000 to a candy shop for a make over. That's $$$ well spent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Well atleast the Buffalo Billion (NYS Gov) is giving $125,000 to a candy shop for a make over. That's $$$ well spent! Viewed as a sweet deal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Well atleast the Buffalo Billion (NYS Gov) is giving $125,000 to a candy shop for a make over. That's $$$ well spent! Move Parkside to Seneca tower...A win-win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Interesting that the tower cost $50 million and note holder foreclosed on a $91 million loan. Either they were not paying off interest while they had tenants or they added to loan later on. Never build a building for a bank which does not want to finance mortgage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Interesting that the tower cost $50 million and note holder foreclosed on a $91 million loan. Either they were not paying off interest while they had tenants or they added to loan later on. Never build a building for a bank which does not want to finance mortgage. It was built in 1972, 13 years after the slow start to the BFLo decline. They were grasping @ straws. Beth in 1979 was the death nail for the old industrial economy of the area. Misguided yes, but I can't really fault them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 It was built in 1972, 13 years after the slow start to the BFLo decline. They were grasping @ straws. Beth in 1979 was the death nail for the old industrial economy of the area. Misguided yes, but I can't really fault them. Much like the subway. It was a make-work project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Cimenelli wants them to demolish the tower. So would I if I was selling real estate space and could wipe out that much of the supply just like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 A number of developers and syndicates have examined the building and run the projected revenue numbers. The numbers simply don't add up to make it a viable project. I would either knock the building down (costly and complicated endeavor) or if possible cut off a third of the building from the top and work with building that is at more a manageable scale. I'm not going to criticize the local developers who already have skin in the game who worry about the increased capacity for office space that would negatively impact their current investments. The same economic and financial dynamics are impacting the Statler building. It is too big a building for any one developer or collection of developers working together to create a project that results in a solvent investment. Maybe the best approach is to just knock the Seneca Building down and auction of the lots to multiple developers for multiple projects. Buffalo is not a Toronto or NYC type of dense metropolis. Projects that have a chance to succeed have to be scaled to suit the mid-level sized town and market that exits in the region. Being smart is better than being big! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 death nail I think you mean death knell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 (edited) I think you mean death knell.Oops... I figured that and was going to check... The way I always pronounced it though as nail. People usually write the way they pronounce. As... The "nail" in the coffin. Quite a butchhering by me w/some logic to it. Grammar Nazi... :-P ;-) http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=9823 This explains my faux pas: Death Nail January 18, 2014 @ 11:21 am · Filed by Mark Liberman under Eggcorns « previous post | next post » IT sent in a link to a web forum post that includes the following (emphasis added): However as I have mentioned a few days ago, data could well be the death nail for Ovivo, as I am sure Vodafone will limit the data bandwidth they can have, so the more customers Ovivo get the worse it will become. Who knows what deal they have on volume with Vodafone. This one was discussed over at the Eggcorn Database back in 2005. "Knell" is not a word that most people know; and ringing a bell when someone dies is not something that most people have experienced; so "death nail" makes a lot more sense than "death knell" does. Maybe it's the proverbial last nail in the coffin, or maybe the imaged interaction is more spectacular and bloodier, but either way, it works. As usual, the only problem is that "death knell" got there first. Edited July 29, 2016 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I like the idea of reducing it by 20 floors or so. Maybe you could re-use the concrete panels elsewhere? yea, build the Niagara river reef. or a bass pro store. IMO the building has no value as a architectural landmark. In a city still full of great old buildings And homes. i think it's kind of fugly. As for reducing available office space in the area. VIew that as a plus. Nobody in the corporate world Is beating down doors to relocate too downtown Buffalo. For the obvious reasons. That ugly clunker may have value for lofts. But to bring it up too modern buildng codes would probably be cost prohibitive. Tear it down build a park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Doug Jemal buying for $12M. He has done really well in DC as the District has gentrified and morphed over the last twenty year. He started investing in DC commercial properties before DC transformed, and he saw it coming. Interesting he is stepping out of DC...think that is a great sign for Buffalo. We all know Buffalo is rebounding, but think this may be small evidence that people outside of Buffalo, and really smart people at that, are noticing as well. http://www.buffalonews.com/business/real-estate/one-seneca-tower-sold-for-12-million-fraction-of-price-in-2005-20160819 Course, that $12m number doesn't hurt either . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Doug Jemal buying for $12M. He has done really well in DC as the District has gentrified and morphed over the last twenty year. He started investing in DC commercial properties before DC transformed, and he saw it coming. Interesting he is stepping out of DC...think that is a great sign for Buffalo. We all know Buffalo is rebounding, but think this may be small evidence that people outside of Buffalo, and really smart people at that, are noticing as well. http://www.buffalonews.com/business/real-estate/one-seneca-tower-sold-for-12-million-fraction-of-price-in-2005-20160819 Course, that $12m number doesn't hurt either . I live in the Md/DC and he is a known figure in the development world. What makes his involvement exciting is that he has successfully been involved in big conversion projects. As the BN article points out it is envisioned that this is a three tiered project that includes a hotel, rental/condo units and office spaces. As the article points out that this is not a quick fix project. It is a multi-pronged project and the financing will not be simple. But what is encouraging is that the new developer has been involved in these type of big projects. Without a doubt this is not the same type situation where an outside fraud from England got involved in the Statler project that ended up languishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Any of the real estate articles bring out a lot of comments on the News website. A number of them were calling this guy a phony, who is going to make off with govt money and got away with a fraud conviction a while back by "knowing the judge." It does seem to me that most developers end up with different charges thrown against them, probably most warranted. But, it seems that graft, etc. is all part of the game. I don't really care about that so much. But, you guys think this guy is legit? That's all I care about in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Any of the real estate articles bring out a lot of comments on the News website. A number of them were calling this guy a phony, who is going to make off with govt money and got away with a fraud conviction a while back by "knowing the judge." It does seem to me that most developers end up with different charges thrown against them, probably most warranted. But, it seems that graft, etc. is all part of the game. I don't really care about that so much. But, you guys think this guy is legit? That's all I care about in this case. know Doug, not best buds or anything, but have done business with him and his company. He is legit in my eyes! Guy was/is passionate about making the District a better place to live and a better place for its residents...and he has done that. He has made lots of money in the process to be sure, but he has also helped a chit ton of people. I am sure he sees an angle here on how to make money, and it most likely involves government money..but he knows real estate and development, at least in the District He made some mistakes along the way..he was convicted of moving some money wrongly about 10 years ago..but he paid his fine and moved on. He is still a greatly respected businessman and all around good dude in DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 know Doug, not best buds or anything, but have done business with him and his company. He is legit in my eyes! Guy was/is passionate about making the District a better place to live and a better place for its residents...and he has done that. He has made lots of money in the process to be sure, but he has also helped a chit ton of people. I am sure he sees an angle here on how to make money, and it most likely involves government money..but he knows real estate and development, at least in the District He made some mistakes along the way..he was convicted of moving some money wrongly about 10 years ago..but he paid his fine and moved on. He is still a greatly respected businessman and all around good dude in DC. That is music to my ears..............I was reading the articles on line last week, and thinking man, this is such great news. And, then get to the comments and it's the usual ripping apart of somebody. I hope he's got an angle on how to make money. Otherwise, nothing will get done.............I've been really concerned about this tower. All the progression with downtown seems hollow with it's biggest building sitting empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I vote take it down. Puts people to work taking it down and puts people to work when they re build something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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