jester43 Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The state of a division rival is far more important than many of the things that are discussed here. Jets are a pretty talented team.......the Bills barely beat them both times they played.......could have easily gone the other way both times. Fitz didn't play his best against the Bills but otherwise he was 10-4 against the rest of the league so they are pretty good with him in there. Without him........they are not. How funny is it that REX RYAN caused all this by coaxing his malcontent defense to play hard enough to turn Fitz back into Fitz for one week when the chips were down. If he pulls out one or both of those games, the Jets are in the playoffs and he has already signed for more than is on the table now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 @siriusxmnfl .@corryjoel on #Jets Word is starting to get around among agents and players that the Jets are difficult to deal with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) Nope, regressing- now you're back to failing to address the clearly spelled out actual point I made (hint: the cap hit was NOT the issue) and just reiterating your already-stated viewpoint, which amounts to "straw man" when it doesn't address the point of the post it's responding to. I don't want to go off onto the Rex tangent, I'll just leave it that I've expressed doubts on our coach elsewhere and would love to be proven wrong. I'm not trying to be stubborn and resistant to your point of view but I don't understand what you are getting at. My basic point in this thread centers around Fitz's talent. When the discussion veered toward how Nix dealt with Fitz I have no problem with him letting Fitz go because he wouldn't take a cut despite taking a cap hit. The criticism that I have against Nix and the organization has little to do with the marginally talented Fitz but with the organization's lack of aggressiveness in pursuing a legitimate franchise qb. That applies before Fitz arrived on the scene, while he was on the scene and after he left the scene. My focus centers on the issue of talent for the most important position on the field and the historical lack of urgency in addressing that position. That's where I am coming from. If you are driving on a different road then that's okay. Taking different routes doesn't necessarily mean that you still can't get to the same destination, intentionally or unintentionally. I don't want to get off on the Rex tangent. I wasn't getting off on any tangent. The point is simple: Mediocrity is mediocrity. It gets you nowhere meaningful. Edited June 9, 2016 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The Jets are so awesome that they crapped the bed against the inferior and dysfunctional Bills twice, the second time with the playoffs on the line. Yep, I can see why anyone would think that team is good. Meanwhile how on earth is this thread approaching 50 pages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 The Jets are so awesome that they crapped the bed against the inferior and dysfunctional Bills twice, the second time with the playoffs on the line. Yep, I can see why anyone would think that team is good. Meanwhile how on earth is this thread approaching 50 pages? By people who question the thread responding to the thread. It's called arithmetic. When you respond the numbers go up. If you don't like the topic and how others are responding then don't respond to it. There are other threads to respond to. Simple solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 I have actually found this thread to be pretty interesting... It's one of the biggest NFL stories of the summer and a division rival, plus our former starting QB. The standoff is Fascinating imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I'm not trying to be stubborn and resistant to your point of view but I don't understand what you are getting at. My basic point in this thread centers around Fitz's talent. When the discussion veered toward how Nix dealt with Fitz I have no problem with him letting Fitz go because he wouldn't take a cut despite taking a cap hit. The criticism that I have against Nix and the organization has little to do with the marginally talented Fitz but with the organization's lack of aggressiveness in pursuing a legitimate franchise qb. That applies before Fitz arrived on the scene, while he was on the scene and after he left the scene. My focus centers on the issue of talent for the most important position on the field and the historical lack of urgency in addressing that position. That's where I am coming from. If you are driving on a different road then that's okay. Taking different routes doesn't necessarily mean that you still can't get to the same destination, intentionally or unintentionally. I don't want to get off on the Rex tangent. I wasn't getting off on any tangent. The point is simple: Mediocrity is mediocrity. It gets you nowhere meaningful. The Broncos had far worse than mediocre at QB and won a SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) I have actually found this thread to be pretty interesting... It's one of the biggest NFL stories of the summer and a division rival, plus our former starting QB. The standoff is Fascinating imho. Are you suggesting that this is the Alamo thread? I'm running out of ammo and I am feeling besieged. The Broncos had far worse than mediocre at QB and won a SB. The Jets lost twice to a Rex coached team last year. The Jets clearly didn't conclude the season with a successful flourish. Not a good analogy. What was the problem? Fitz was Fitz. The central issue really isn't Fitz. Most of us know how he ranks as a qb. The central issue is what is his monetary value. That's the sticking point. Edited June 9, 2016 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 @siriusxmnfl .@corryjoel on #Jets Word is starting to get around among agents and players that the Jets are difficult to deal with ...and so it begins The collateral damage from these negotiations should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) Are you suggesting that this is the Alamo thread? I'm running out of ammo and I am feeling besieged. The Jets lost twice to a Rex coached team last year. The Jets clearly didn't conclude the season with a successful flourish. Not a good analogy. What was the problem? Fitz was Fitz. The central issue really isn't Fitz. Most of us know how he ranks as a qb. The central issue is what is his monetary value. That's the sticking point. What was Peyton's monetary value last season? What was he paid? What did he do on that team? There's your sticking point. Edited June 9, 2016 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) I'm not trying to be stubborn and resistant to your point of view but I don't understand what you are getting at. My basic point in this thread centers around Fitz's talent. When the discussion veered toward how Nix dealt with Fitz I have no problem with him letting Fitz go because he wouldn't take a cut despite taking a cap hit. The criticism that I have against Nix and the organization has little to do with the marginally talented Fitz but with the organization's lack of aggressiveness in pursuing a legitimate franchise qb. That applies before Fitz arrived on the scene, while he was on the scene and after he left the scene. My focus centers on the issue of talent for the most important position on the field and the historical lack of urgency in addressing that position. That's where I am coming from. If you are driving on a different road then that's okay. Taking different routes doesn't necessarily mean that you still can't get to the same destination, intentionally or unintentionally. We didn't veer towards "how Nix dealt with Fitz". You introduced what in your view is Nix's correct low valuation (and release) of Fitz as justification for what you view as the Jet's correct low valuation of Fitz. I object. The point is simple: you can't use Nix's valuation to justify the Jets valuation unless you believe that Nix, overall, showed good talent evaluation and cap management at the QB position. That would be cherry-picking one data spot to make your point, not appropriate unless you accept the whole bowl of cherries as good fruit. Evaluation of Nix's management of the QB position includes his draft choices (or lack of choices) towards the position, the QB talent he brought in, and his cap management at the position. The cap hit is only one part - who he brought in to replace Fitz and their impact on the cap vs impact on the field is another part. I've pointed this out repeatedly yet you keep reiterating "cap hit" as though that's the sum total of the picture or at least the most important part. It isn't either. It seems to me that overall you don't like Nix's management of the QB position. Therefore, my point is you can't use Nix publically-stated low valuation of Fitz as justification for the Jets stance and its implied valuation. . Are you suggesting that this is the Alamo thread? I'm running out of ammo and I am feeling besieged. But you'll be remembered Edited June 12, 2016 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 We didn't veer towards "how Nix dealt with Fitz". You introduced what in your view is Nix's correct low valuation (and release) of Fitz as justification for what you view as the Jet's correct low valuation of Fitz. I object. The point is simple: you can't use Nix's valuation to justify the Jets valuation unless you believe that Nix, overall, showed good talent evaluation and cap management at the QB position. That would be cherry-picking one data spot to make your point, not appropriate unless you accept the whole bowl of cherries as good fruit. Your response is perplexing. If you are offering me a bowl of cherries that doesn't mean that I have to eat all the cherries. I'll select the cherries I want to select and decline the cherries I don't want to eat. Nothing odd or rude about that. Your basic point is that because Nix hasn't always exhibited good judgment on many matters that it is invalid for me to accept his judgment on this particular Fitz matter. That is a perplexing position to take. There is nothing odd about Nix's view that Fitz was a mediocre qb who needed to take a pay cut in order to have a better balance between pay and performance. The less than enthusiastic view that Nix had on Fitz is the same view that every team in the league had on him, including the numerous teams he played for. I'm certainly not going to criticize the stolid GM for making a common sense judgment that was obvious to all. . Evaluation of Nix's management of the QB position includes his draft choices (or lack of choices) towards the position, the QB talent he brought in, and his cap management at the position. The cap hit is only one part - who he brought in to replace Fitz and their impact on the cap vs impact on the field is another part. I've pointed this out repeatedly yet you keep reiterating "cap hit" as though that's the sum total of the picture or at least the most important part. It isn't either. The cap hit that Nix took is a miniscule matter for me. You are magnifying a point that is very insignificant that borders on irrelevancy. Don't be so fixated on such a triviality. It seems to me that overall you don't like Nix's management of the QB position. Therefore, my point is you can't use Nix publically-stated low valuation of Fitz as justification for the Jets stance and its implied valuation. Without a doubt I didn't like Nix/Whaley's management of the qb position. It lacked urgency. The priority for him and Whaley from the start should have been to more aggressively address that position. One of the primary reasons the Bills have been a second-rate organization is that they haven't adequately staffed that position. However, just because Nix failed in that critical endeavor and in many other issues doesn't mean that his judgment on Fitz should be disqualified. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Being wrong on many issues doesn't mean that you are wrong on all issues, and especially on this particular issue regarding a mediocre qb.. Where I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you and others is that you are using Fitz's last year's stats as a reference point. Or another way of saying this is you are cherry-picking stats that don't reflect his unimpressive of body of work for a half dozen teams he played for. You are indicting me for cherry-picking data when you are doing it an a felonious level. I acknowledge that Fitz had a good statistical year last year. However, the mistake you and others are making is that you are using it for the basis for for his contract stance. What you refuse to do is to broaden the range of stats that convincingly demonstrate over his long career the caliber of qb that Fitz actually is. But you'll be remembered Sometimes considering the option it is better to be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 ...and so it begins The collateral damage from these negotiations should be interesting. That sounds bad but really isn't. Teams like NE, Seattle, Denver and Carolina are the best in the biz and have a reputation of not giving much ground in negotiations. The Bills used to be pusseez about accomodating disgruntled players with trades or not using a franchise tag and during the Marv/Brandon GM era they vastly overpaid for bad players and people felt that would make them look like a kinder/gentler organization for future prospective free agents. It just made them look weak and confirmed to prospective free agents WHY they were losers. The truth is that how most players get treated in negotiations really means nothing. The real fall-out here is that the Jets team is disheartened about this one particular player because they know they can't win without the kind of play he provided and they are aware that they are very unlikely to get that production from anyone else on the roster. So basically they feel like the team is sacrificing the season to avoid paying Fitz. How they have treated everyone else in the past doesn't really matter that's just the NYC media needling the Jets organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 What was Peyton's monetary value last season? What was he paid? What did he do on that team? There's your sticking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 @rapsheet Update on the #Jets situation with Ryan Fitzpatrick: Nothing. Just nothing. Doesn't seem like things will change heading into minicamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 The attached link is a WGR interview with Joe Caporoso who reports on the Jets. This is a 12 minute segment with the first half talking about Rex and his NY experience. It is not a positive view on his prospects with us. The second half of the interview deals with the Fitz situation in NY. His portrayal is consistent with my take on this issue. http://media.wgr550.com/a/115548558/joe-caporoso-of-turn-on-the-jets-talkhtm s-fitz-rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 The attached link is a WGR interview with Joe Caporoso who reports on the Jets. This is a 12 minute segment with the first half talking about Rex and his NY experience. It is not a positive view on his prospects with us. The second half of the interview deals with the Fitz situation in NY. His portrayal is consistent with my take on this issue. http://media.wgr550.com/a/115548558/joe-caporoso-of-turn-on-the-jets-talkhtm s-fitz-rex. Really? I didn't hear him call Fitz "garbage", nor did he mention the Jets bringing in another "mediocrity" to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Really? I didn't hear him call Fitz "garbage", nor did he mention the Jets bringing in another "mediocrity" to replace him. The Jets are not budging from their position. Fitz so far has no interest from the market. What does that tell you? Mediocrity is not a high priced commodity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Yeah, seems like no one wants to pay him more than $8M/season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Schefter talked about it this morning on Mike & Mike. It is no closer to being resolved. I have to admit I wouldn't hate a home open against Geno Smith at night. I am going to go ahead and put a "W" next to it in permanent marker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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