Deranged Rhino Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, Motorin' said: The people working for these legal reforms are not the same individuals asking for to defund the police. I don't disagree -- but the point is the loudest voices, the biggest names, are pushing that first and foremost. You should ask yourself why they're doing that when it harms their overall goals. Why would they push something so hard that overshadows the actual, reasonable goals of the movement? Could it be that their goals are not reform but revolution? And if that's the case, why let those people infiltrate the movement and speak for it? Is it just because they're famous? 2
Boatdrinks Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: I don't disagree -- but the point is the loudest voices, the biggest names, are pushing that first and foremost. You should ask yourself why they're doing that when it harms their overall goals. Why would they push something so hard that overshadows the actual, reasonable goals of the movement? Could it be that their goals are not reform but revolution? And if that's the case, why let those people infiltrate the movement and speak for it? Is it just because they're famous? Right on ! The famous and wealthy are not more important or more deserving of protection than the rest of us. They can create their own villages with private security to hold the criminals at bay. Ordinary citizens need the Police. 5 minutes ago, Motorin' said: I don't agree with any of the destructiveness that has been happening. I think the whole phrase is, "a few bad apples spoil the bunch." I think all cops have a tough job, and most of them want to protect and serve. But I think the laws and culture of policing are setup to protect, intentionally or not, to protect the bad cops. And I've seen enough retaliation and punishment against the preverbal good cop for speaking out against the actions of the bad cop to believe that the system needs to be reformed. Well, there is no formal “ system” set up with the goal of protecting bad cops. The Minny four went against any procedure manual in the country. This stuff can happen regardless of training etc. There are bad people everywhere in society, and law enforcement is not immune. 1
Trump_is_Mentally_fit Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 Jennifer Rubin: Trump will not vanish on his own. The protesters must vow to vote him out — and then show up in November. Nevertheless, something is new. Americans previously willing to shuffle along behind a deranged executive or to avert their eyes have recovered their confidence and pride as citizens of a great republic. They have rediscovered we have the resources, the laws and the institutions we need to throw off the yoke of oppression — just as we did 240 years ago. 1
Boatdrinks Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Jennifer Rubin: Trump will not vanish on his own. The protesters must vow to vote him out — and then show up in November. Nevertheless, something is new. Americans previously willing to shuffle along behind a deranged executive or to avert their eyes have recovered their confidence and pride as citizens of a great republic. They have rediscovered we have the resources, the laws and the institutions we need to throw off the yoke of oppression — just as we did 240 years ago. The protesters already voted for the Dems in 2016, and live in liberal havens that vote that way consistently. Won’t make a difference. Sane people who might have considered voting Dem are looking on in horror , hearing talk of defunding police to advance the causes of criminals. They have no choice but to vote Trump! He’s the only one who will protect them from the savage mobs who want to take over America !
Warren Zevon Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Sorry Billy, we all saw the videos.
B-Man Posted June 4, 2020 Author Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Sundancer said: EXACTLY. He made a terrific Rose Garden speech, Then a symbolic walk over to the just vandalized "Church of the Presidents" The Left immediately saw that it was very effective...................and threw everything (and continue to) against it. 3
Trump_is_Mentally_fit Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: The protesters already voted for the Dems in 2016, and live in liberal havens that vote that way consistently. Won’t make a difference. Sane people who might have considered voting Dem are looking on in horror , hearing talk of defunding police to advance the causes of criminals. They have no choice but to vote Trump! He’s the only one who will protect them from the savage mobs who want to take over America ! The Blue Wave is coming for Trump. 2018 showed the way 1
muppy Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, B-Man said: EXACTLY. He made a terrific Rose Garden speech, Then a symbolic walk over to the just vandalized "Church of the Presidents" The Left immediately saw that it was very effective...................and threw everything (and continue to) against it. Effective? Yeah I'll say it was effective....effective at pissing off a ton of Christian folks who see through this blatant attempt to pander to evangelicals with this phoney display of piety...Please. 1 2
B-Man Posted June 4, 2020 Author Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Margarita said: Effective? Yeah I'll say it was effective....effective at pissing off a ton of Christian folks who see through this blatant attempt to pander to evangelicals with this phoney display of piety...Please. You are entitled to your opinion Ma'am, but that is not what I am hearing. 2 2
BillsFanNC Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, B-Man said: You are entitled to your opinion Ma'am, but that is not what I am hearing. Insane is the right word. How can anyone hope to reason with or find common ground with people like this? The answer is you can't and anything short of marching in lockstep with their agenda makes you a racist. 4
billsfan1959 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, Motorin' said: I don't agree with any of the destructiveness that has been happening. I think the whole phrase is, "a few bad apples spoil the bunch." I think all cops have a tough job, and most of them want to protect and serve. But I think the laws and culture of policing are setup to protect, intentionally or not, to protect the bad cops. And I've seen enough retaliation and punishment against the preverbal good cop for speaking out against the actions of the bad cop to believe that the system needs to be reformed. Sorry, just not true. Two other things: (1) A standard for the use of deadly force already exists. What people are calling for is a concrete, objective standard. That is ridiculous. It's like telling you that you have to meet 3 specific, measurable criteria to be in fear of your life, and If those three thigs do not all exist and you still are in fear of your life, then that fear is not legitimate. We are talking about human beings making, what are often, split-second decisions, based on various criteria and fluid dynamics. (2) Almost every police killing is reviewed by outside agencies and every one should be. What I don't believe should happen is leaving the decision on the legitimacy of the actions of the Officer in the hands of a civilian review board. I have no problems with such boards existing and working with departments; however, they should not have that authority. 2 5
SectionC3 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Sorry, just not true. Two other things: (1) A standard for the use of deadly force already exists. What people are calling for is a concrete, objective standard. That is ridiculous. It's like telling you that you have to meet 3 specific, measurable criteria to be in fear of your life, and If those three thigs do not all exist and you still are in fear of your life, then that fear is not legitimate. We are talking about human beings making, what are often, split-second decisions, based on various criteria and fluid dynamics. (2) Almost every police killing is reviewed by outside agencies and every one should be. What I don't believe should happen is leaving the decision on the legitimacy of the actions of the Officer in the hands of a civilian review board. I have no problems with such boards existing and working with departments; however, they should not have that authority. Well said. The standard for the use of deadly physical force appears in Penal Law article 35 in New York State. And, at least in NYS, officer-initiated deaths are reviewed by the AG’s office so as to take local politics out of the equation. As those instances should be. 19 minutes ago, B-Man said: You are entitled to your opinion Ma'am, but that is not what I am hearing. We’re all equal at the foot of the cross. But, according to bunker boy, we have to honor those who fought for inequality. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/president-trump-rails-against-removal-beautiful-confederate-statues-n793451
Magox Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 34 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: This is a part of what I'm talking about. The Whitewashing of facts on the ground. 20 minutes ago, B-Man said: You are entitled to your opinion Ma'am, but that is not what I am hearing. Another example of the Orwellian society we are in today. This is a form of what Orwell considers "thought crime". I'm going to make this a theme. 2
billsfan1959 Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, B-Man said: You are entitled to your opinion Ma'am, but that is not what I am hearing. This is the shaming of America. It is nothing more than bullying people who disagree with you into agreeing with you. It is a minority of this country that engages in it, and they rely on the decency of the majority to acquiesce because they are decent people who do not want to be perceived in the manner they are being depicted. It is the very absence of tolerance by those who wrap themselves up in that particular virtue. Edited June 4, 2020 by billsfan1959 5
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 4, 2020 Posted June 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, Tiberius said: The Blue Wave is coming for Trump. 2018 showed the way It is, or it isn't. You've been wrong before, pretty consistently. 10 minutes ago, Margarita said: Effective? Yeah I'll say it was effective....effective at pissing off a ton of Christian folks who see through this blatant attempt to pander to evangelicals with this phoney display of piety...Please. Whatever. Like everyone else, if Trump walking to the church is the hot button issue that really riles 'em, they should vote their conscience. Maybe they can do it from the 11 x12 home office where they worship, mask on, while watching services online because the government tells them they are cowardly, dumb , selfish and ignorant if they attempt to celebrate together. Hell, if they have two monitors maybe they can watch their local politician marching arm and arm with other citizens, those who apparently are immune to the super bug, not a mask in sight. Or, maybe they can use the second monitor to track the movement of the wandering hoard of looters and vandals, maybe they can see their church if the vandals get to the right neighborhood. There really are a lot of options when the government locks you down. It's liberating. 2
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