Marty McFly Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Why not, you need at l good personal to be great. Average to be good. With all the injuries they has below average personal about half the games Spikes gone searcy gone J wynn A Williams K Williams mckelvin Bradham Graham Gilmore all misses multiple games Almost none of those guys played the jets week 17 and we won anyway. so while I agree the injuries killed us during the season but that doesnt absolve rex cuz he showed he could win with bak ups against a team with a much better defense and the playoffs on the line. his scheme and the way he mis managed the defense cost us a few. dont forget replacing Searcy and Spikes is the headcoaches job too. and its like he forgot they were gone. EDIT: and gilmore was gone when we were already pretty much out of the playoff hunt Edited February 8, 2016 by Marty McFly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Anyone else notice the "LAR" for "LA Rams" in his career history? Kind of sickening how fast St. Louis had their team stripped from them. I'm old enough to remember the old LA Rams, but still feel bad for the St. Louis fans. that's idiotic, he played for the St. Louis Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 that's idiotic, he played for the St. Louis Rams. It's a lot like talking about the long, illustrious career Johnny Unitas had for the Indianapolis Colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Almost none of those guys played the jets week 17 and we won anyway. so while I agree the injuries killed us during the season but that doesnt absolve rex cuz he showed he could win with bak ups against a team with a much better defense and the playoffs on the line. his scheme and the way he mis managed the defense cost us a few. dont forget replacing Searcy and Spikes is the headcoaches job too. and its like he forgot they were gone. EDIT: and gilmore was gone when we were already pretty much out of the playoff hunt Replacing players is the coaches job ? No coaching the players on the roster his job. Once Williams went out the safety group was a mess. Beating the Jets is hardly the gold standard, they beat one team with a winning record all year. They won with back ups because as we know Fitz isn't very good Me, too. It's a huge concern. The franchise tag for offensive linemen is expected to be $13.678M. They'll need that cleared before the new league starts. That's some pretty heavy lifting. Not really , signing Glenn and Incognito can get done; Glenn is almost completely covered by releasing Mario. Between carry over and the cap increase Incognito will not be an issue. Yes after that it will take some juggling but this is the nfl , every year its jigsaw puzzle. Who stays and who goes and hopefully you fill all your holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Replacing players is the coaches job ? No coaching the players on the roster his job. Once Williams went out the safety group was a mess. Beating the Jets is hardly the gold standard, they beat one team with a winning record all year. They won with back ups because as we know Fitz isn't very good Dude I think you mis-understood my post. I did not and still do not like the Rex Ryan hire. The jets games were the only thing Rex did good besides bringing in Tryod Darby and Cognito. Now that he has his bro and the draft will be spent bringing in players that fit "his scheme and system" he basically stepped up to the noose, the defenses performance will decide whether he hangs himself or hangs last year as an out of norm season. Edited February 8, 2016 by Marty McFly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Replacing players is the coaches job ? No coaching the players on the roster his job. Once Williams went out the safety group was a mess. Beating the Jets is hardly the gold standard, they beat one team with a winning record all year. They won with back ups because as we know Fitz isn't very good Not really , signing Glenn and Incognito can get done; Glenn is almost completely covered by releasing Mario. Between carry over and the cap increase Incognito will not be an issue. Yes after that it will take some juggling but this is the nfl , every year its jigsaw puzzle. Who stays and who goes and hopefully you fill all your holes. Not even a lot of juggling--dropping Dixon and getting a pay cut from McKelvin (which he said he'd take) gets you 50% of the way there. You get the rest of the way if you drop any of Carpenter, Lawson, or Urbik. You can also create $3M worth of space with a new deal for Gilmore. I really think they're going to try to avoid touching Clay's deal...it'll leave them in much better shape for '17-'19 if they can do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baskingridgebillsfan Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Not even a lot of juggling--dropping Dixon and getting a pay cut from McKelvin (which he said he'd take) gets you 50% of the way there. You get the rest of the way if you drop any of Carpenter, Lawson, or Urbik. You can also create $3M worth of space with a new deal for Gilmore. I really think they're going to try to avoid touching Clay's deal...it'll leave them in much better shape for '17-'19 if they can do so. Mario at 12.5 , the cap is suppose to go between 8-10. They can carry over 6 from last year. Last I saw they were 3 over. right there is enough to fit them. Restructure clay to fit the draft picks. This is just one path , there are many others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Not really , signing Glenn and Incognito can get done; Glenn is almost completely covered by releasing Mario. Between carry over and the cap increase Incognito will not be an issue. Yes after that it will take some juggling but this is the nfl , every year its jigsaw puzzle. Who stays and who goes and hopefully you fill all your holes. "Can get done" and "will get done" are very different things. If Glenn chases the last dollar I don't see how he remains a Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 "Can get done" and "will get done" are very different things. If Glenn chases the last dollar I don't see how he remains a Bill. They can and should tag him if that's the case. That average salary is roughly what he would be asking for anyway, IMO. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Mario at 12.5 , the cap is suppose to go between 8-10. They can carry over 6 from last year. Last I saw they were 3 over. right there is enough to fit them. Restructure clay to fit the draft picks. This is just one path , there are many others Again, I really wouldn't want to touch Clay's contract. He's already at $13.5 for this year and $6.5 each of the next 3. Every penny of his $10M roster bonus that you touch this year gets added to those $6.5M figures. Right now, with their top 51, they're at just about $157.3M (according to Spotrac, which is usually very accurate). Assuming the latest projection of $153.4M is correct for the cap, they're about $4M over right now. If they choose to go with 1-year contracts over RFA tenders, they can get their RFAs signed for about $7M--more on that here: http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/01/20/a-look-at-bills-restricted-free-agents/ Add in another $5M or so for draft picks, and you're looking at having to recoup about $16M in cap space. Cutting Mario gets you $12.9M. Cutting Dixon gets you $1.1M. If McKelvin takes a pay cut down to $2.5M, you save another $2.4 Now you're under the cap, but you still need to find space to sign Glenn and Incognito. I'm guessing that'll take between $10M and $12M. Assume Gilmore gets a new deal, and you can score $3M back right there. This is where I'm looking to guys like Lawson and Urbik to take a pay cut. If they'll both help you out, you can recover another $2M. That leaves $5M left to find, and this is where I would make the hard decision to part ways with Kyle Williams. He'll be 33 in June, is coming off a shortened season due to injury, and isn't a great fit for what Rex seems to want to do up front. I know it's blasphemy, but that's what I would do if it meant keeping Glenn. Then you have the choice to part ways with guys like Carpenter and Easley, as well as pick one of Graham or Aaron Williams to keep at safety, if you want to bring in a FA defender or two. Edited February 8, 2016 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) They can and should tag him if that's the case. That average salary is roughly what he would be asking for anyway, IMO. GO BILLS!!! The OL franchise tag is expected to be around $13.5M. That's possible, but not fun to manage. Again, I really wouldn't want to touch Clay's contract. He's already at $13.5 for this year and $6.5 each of the next 3. Every penny of his $10M roster bonus that you touch this year gets added to those $6.5M figures. Right now, with their top 51, they're at just about $157.3M (according to Spotrac, which is usually very accurate). Assuming the latest projection of $153.4M is correct for the cap, they're about $4M over right now. If they choose to go with 1-year contracts over RFA tenders, they can get their RFAs signed for about $7M--more on that here: http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/01/20/a-look-at-bills-restricted-free-agents/ Add in another $5M or so for draft picks, and you're looking at having to recoup about $16M in cap space. Cutting Mario gets you $12.9M. Cutting Dixon gets you $1.1M. If McKelvin takes a pay cut down to $2.5M, you save another $2.4 Now you're under the cap, but you still need to find space to sign Glenn and Incognito. I'm guessing that'll take between $10M and $12M. Assume Gilmore gets a new deal, and you can score $3M back right there. This is where I'm looking to guys like Lawson and Urbik to take a pay cut. If they'll both help you out, you can recover another $2M. That leaves $5M left to find, and this is where I would make the hard decision to part ways with Kyle Williams. He'll be 33 in June, is coming off a shortened season due to injury, and isn't a great fit for what Rex seems to want to do up front. I know it's blasphemy, but that's what I would do if it meant keeping Glenn. Then you have the choice to part ways with guys like Carpenter and Easley, as well as pick one of Graham or Aaron Williams to keep at safety, if you want to bring in a FA defender or two. Why would you prefer a $10M cap hit this season to four $2.5M cap hits over the next four seasons? With the ability to roll unused cap dollars into future years there is no advantage to taking the hit early. Spreading the hit out just gives the team more flexibility. Edited February 8, 2016 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The OL franchise tag is expected to be around $13.5M. That's possible, but not fun to manage. No, it's not fun to manage, but he is a player at a premium position and you said he would command top dollar which I think would be more than the average of top salaries and even harder to manage, perhaps. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Not even a lot of juggling--dropping Dixon and getting a pay cut from McKelvin (which he said he'd take) gets you 50% of the way there. You get the rest of the way if you drop any of Carpenter, Lawson, or Urbik. You can also create $3M worth of space with a new deal for Gilmore. I really think they're going to try to avoid touching Clay's deal...it'll leave them in much better shape for '17-'19 if they can do so. I would be careful about Lawson. He was one of the better players on that defense, and is a good fit for it brain-wise and body-wise. The system is predicated on having knowledgeable vets at the LB spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Why would you prefer a $10M cap hit this season to four $2.5M cap hits over the next four seasons? With the ability to roll unused cap dollars into future years there is no advantage to taking the hit early. Spreading the hit out just gives the team more flexibility. Because you're talking about going from three consecutive $6.5M cap hits to three consecutive $9M cap hits. If you can take it all in one season, it makes life much easier down the road. I would be careful about Lawson. He was one of the better players on that defense, and is a good fit for it brain-wise and body-wise. The system is predicated on having knowledgeable vets at the LB spot. Yes, but I think he's smart enough to realize that he's unlikely to make $2.4M in 2016 with anyone other than Buffalo, so taking the $1M pay cut (from his current cap figure of $3.4M) may actually be a better decision than being released and having to find a $2.4M pay day from some other team as a 10-year vet that hasn't been a full-time starter in 2 years. I know that's cold, but this is the business side of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Because you're talking about going from three consecutive $6.5M cap hits to three consecutive $9M cap hits. If you can take it all in one season, it makes life much easier down the road. Well, that's part of the picture. The whole picture is this: Keeping it as it stands: 2016 cap hit: $13.5M 2017-2019 cap hits: $6.5M each Restructure: 2016 cap hit: $6M 2017-2019 cap hits: $9M each The Bills need the $7.5M cap space badly this season. If for some reason the space goes unused it can be brought forward, so the Bills could actually still effectively utilize the space per the first scenario. They wouldn't HAVE to do that, but they could if they chose to. But the first example doesn't provide the opportunity to utilize the cap space per the second example. Flexibility is a good thing. Also pushing off cap hits allocates current cash expenditures to be accounted for in years with higher team caps. That means they take up less space percentage-wise. There is zero advantage to taking the hit in 2016 and there is no way it happens. Edited February 8, 2016 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 any blue text yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Well, that's part of the picture. The whole picture is this: Keeping it as it stands: 2016 cap hit: $19.5M 2017-2019 cap hits: $6.5M each Restructure: 2016 cap hit: $12M 2017-2019 cap hits: $9M each That $19.5M is brutal this season and the Bills need the room badly. If for some reason the space goes unused it can be brought forward, so the Bills could actually still effectively utilize the space per the first scenario. They wouldn't HAVE to do that, but they could if they chose to. But the first example doesn't provide the opportunity to utilize the cap space per the second example. Flexibility is a good thing. Also pushing off cap hits allocates current cash expenditures to be accounted for in years with higher team caps. That means they take up less space percentage-wise. There is zero advantage to taking the hit in 2016 and there is no way it happens. His 2016 cap hit is not $19.5M; it's $13.5M. Further, if we take your suggestion of $9M cap hits, then you're talking about each of '17'-'19 involving approximately $25M in cap space attributed to Clay and Marcell Dareus. You also have to factor in increasing cap numbers for Gilmore, Jerry Hughes, and eventually a QB. Sammy Watkins will also need an extension. It's far better to take the hit this season and have flexibility in the future. Edited February 8, 2016 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) No, it's not fun to manage, but he is a player at a premium position and you said he would command top dollar which I think would be more than the average of top salaries and even harder to manage, perhaps. GO BILLS!!! That's a fair point, but I do not see Glenn as a premium player. He's solid. He plays a premium position to be sure, but he would be overpaid as a franchise player. And I think he will be overpaid on the free agent market, true. Not top dollar, but overpaid. Maybe tagging him is worth it to try to sign him to a long term deal or kick the can down the road a year. I'll certainly give you that. It'd be nice to know what Glenn is thinking. Does he want to be here or is he ready to bolt? Is he looking to stay or has his agent already worked another deal on the quiet (should he not get a tag)? I dunno. Maybe the tag is the right answer if a deal can't be reached. Then either work a long term one out with him or address the position next offseason when (hopefully) there are less needs. His 2016 cap hit is not $19.5M; it's $13.5M. http://overthecap.com/player/charles-clay/675 It is. Copied the wrong number. Will fix previous post. My point stands though. There is no reason to keep it as is and several advantages to restructuring. Edited February 8, 2016 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 qwksiler Who are you to judge someones character? Shame on you! One of the true team players this year and will continue to be one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 There is no reason to keep it as is and several advantages to restructuring. You keep saying this but there is an obvious reason...lower cap hits for the rest of his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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