GG Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I've seen 2 variations of excuses that Republicans didn't create the Trump candidacy. The one you linked and the other that somehow Obama created Trump. What a crock. Take responsibility and work to fix it instead of hiding behind others. You're conflating the issues. GOP didn't create Trump. But he's certainly playing to the disaffected wing of the party, just like Bernie is racking up almost equal support on the other side of the pole. Trump is getting a lot of support from self-identified Dems and it's not just votes to help him to the nomination and make Hillary's job easier in November. The reality is that the current economic state is ripe for populist anger, and Trump & Bernie are tapping right into it. So yeah, it is largely Obama's fault. If you don't believe me, listen to this guy. It's about time someone is addressing the pink elephant in the room. But if you believe we can all rise together, if you believe we’ve finally come to the point where we can put the awful legacy of the last eight years behind us ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 You're conflating the issues. GOP didn't create Trump. But he's certainly playing to the disaffected wing of the party, just like Bernie is racking up almost equal support on the other side of the pole. Trump is getting a lot of support from self-identified Dems and it's not just votes to help him to the nomination and make Hillary's job easier in November. The reality is that the current economic state is ripe for populist anger, and Trump & Bernie are tapping right into it. So yeah, it is largely Obama's fault. If you don't believe me, listen to this guy. It's about time someone is addressing the pink elephant in the room. And you really believe that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 And you really believe that Of course. Obama get a pass for his feckless leadership because everyone is infatuated with the Trump phenomenon to truly examine why the electorate is pi$$ed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 What a crock. Take responsibility and work to fix it instead of hiding behind others. I'm not a republican, just passing on interesting articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Of course. Obama get a pass for his feckless leadership because everyone is infatuated with the Trump phenomenon to truly examine why the electorate is pi$$ed off. Yesterday it was the media, today it's Obama's fault. Ok, so Trump won popularity by declaring he was going to keep rapists, murderers etc. out from Mexico by building a wall. What's Obama's role in creating a ground swell of support for something so stupid? After all, Rubio and Obama were not so far apart on a solution there at first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I'm not a republican, just passing on interesting articles. I wasn't talking to you but the party that keeps this sort of nonsense up. Republicans should clean up their yard and not blame Trump on Democrats. If they had a better candidate, Trump would be long-since out of the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I wasn't talking to you but the party that keeps this sort of nonsense up. Republicans should clean up their yard and not blame Trump on Democrats. If they had a better candidate, Trump would be long-since out of the picture. If Trump wins the nomination, consider the yard taking its first leap toward clean up. After Hillary destroys him in the general, the GOP will do whatever it can to ensure it never lets another long-time Democrat lie his way to the GOP ticket or embarrass them with the kind of pre-school rhetoric that mesmerizes his supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Yesterday it was the media, today it's Obama's fault. Ok, so Trump won popularity by declaring he was going to keep rapists, murderers etc. out from Mexico by building a wall. What's Obama's role in creating a ground swell of support for something so stupid? After all, Rubio and Obama were not so far apart on a solution there at first Rubio paid a political price for pushing that piece of crap immigration bill. While Trump's declaration that Mexico will pay for the wall is way out there, the securitization (walls, surveillance and other methods) of the border is a majority position in this country and any thinking person correctly concludes that we need to have a more limited and orderly immigration practice. On that note, Trump's position is a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I wasn't talking to you but the party that keeps this sort of nonsense up. Republicans should clean up their yard and not blame Trump on Democrats. If they had a better candidate, Trump would be long-since out of the picture. Establishment Republicans have a big-government agenda that is not representative of what their base wants. After sending a wave of Republican Senators and Congressmen over the last two election cycles, their voices have still not been heard, and they are still not represented. In this way, Republicans are directly responsible for Trump's ascendancy. He is a big middle finger towards the establishment. The shame here, is that Trump does not represent conservative or libertarian values. He is a left-leaning proto-fascist strongman, and is a liar who will not follow through on his (often vague) promises. If elected, his ideology will become the face of Republicanism for the foreseeable future, and will herald a final departure from traditional conservative values in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Establishment Republicans have a big-government agenda that is not representative of what their base wants. After sending a wave of Republican Senators and Congressmen over the last two election cycles, their voices have still not been heard, and they are still not represented. In this way, Republicans are directly responsible for Trump's ascendancy. He is a big middle finger towards the establishment. The shame here, is that Trump does not represent conservative or libertarian values. He is a left-leaning proto-fascist strongman, and is a liar who will not follow through on his (often vague) promises. If elected, his ideology will become the face of Republicanism for the foreseeable future, and will herald a final departure from traditional conservative values in this country. I just can't disagree more with this. I do agree that the base does not want poor minority people to be helped by government (Obamacare) but they are very big pro-government with entitlements. Trump has declared his promise to not touch entitlements. Look at where Bush's proposal went on privatizing SS. How about Ryan's plan to cut entitlements? Just no where plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Yesterday it was the media, today it's Obama's fault. Ok, so Trump won popularity by declaring he was going to keep rapists, murderers etc. out from Mexico by building a wall. What's Obama's role in creating a ground swell of support for something so stupid? After all, Rubio and Obama were not so far apart on a solution there at first 7 years of doing pretty much nothing with regard to the illegal immigration challenge in this country. Add that to the previous 20 plus years of doing nothing and people get pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I wasn't talking to you but the party that keeps this sort of nonsense up. Republicans should clean up their yard and not blame Trump on Democrats. If they had a better candidate, Trump would be long-since out of the picture. No argument with your central point, but you have to at least consider the corporate media's role in the Trump equation. We've lost our fourth estate and the effects of that are on full display this election cycle. There aren't many news sources left out there that haven't been turned into full-fledged propaganda outlets for their corporate bosses. The media's consolidation into the hands of a few, and their subsequent chasing of ratings over substance, helped create the necessary elements for the Trump storm we're seeing now. Storm coverage is actually a pretty good comparison. Typically storm coverage is overly sensationalized for ratings, completely lacking in substance, and usually features a news anchor in a rain coat getting pelted with hurricane winds and rain for the sole purpose of amusing the audience. Only this time the anchor is getting pelted with the literal bullshite that spews from Trump's mouth for our amusement, and they don't give them a rain slicker. Then of course there's the theory, which I still find quite plausible, that Trump was encouraged to run by folks who want to see Clinton in the White House. Perhaps HRC herself. Knowing Trump's ego and persona would take all the attention away from the DNC primary (and away from Sanders, Hillary's only in house "rival") and allow Hillary to take up the "at least she's not as bad as Trump" real estate in voter's minds. Of course, she is as bad as Trump (if not worse)... but that's a different conversation. Establishment Republicans have a big-government agenda that is not representative of what their base wants. After sending a wave of Republican Senators and Congressmen over the last two election cycles, their voices have still not been heard, and they are still not represented. In this way, Republicans are directly responsible for Trump's ascendancy. He is a big middle finger towards the establishment. The shame here, is that Trump does not represent conservative or libertarian values. He is a left-leaning proto-fascist strongman, and is a liar who will not follow through on his (often vague) promises. If elected, his ideology will become the face of Republicanism for the foreseeable future, and will herald a final departure from traditional conservative values in this country. GOP, DNC -- they're one in the same. Both have been bought by the same big monied interests and have been dancing to the same tune for at least 6 years -- if not 15. That's what happens when you legally declare there is no difference between a $100 dollar donation and a $100,000 dollar donation. The system is broken because the Supreme Court made corruption not only legal, but SOP in federal politics. There's not only incentive for politicians to take big donor money, there's simply no other way to raise the money required to win an election (or re-election) without allowing yourself to be bought off. Money is not speech and Supreme Court decisions have consequences, to paraphrase your familiar nugget. The GOP, nor the DNC, have any hope of shrugging off the control of the establishment unless they get serious about fixing this issue. 7 years of doing pretty much nothing with regard to the illegal immigration challenge in this country. Add that to the previous 20 plus years of doing nothing and people get pissed. Immigration alone didn't do it. Gotta throw in the War on Terror (can't get people afraid of immigrants if you're not propagandizing people to be afraid of Muslims and brown people for 15 years), the economic collapse which vaporized most of the middle class, and a feckless media that's shown more interest in chasing clicks and ratings than they are in reporting the truth/holding the powers that be accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 7 years of doing pretty much nothing with regard to the illegal immigration challenge in this country. Add that to the previous 20 plus years of doing nothing and people get pissed. He tried doing something--as did Rubio, its just that the Trump/Tea Party people hated the idea of amnesty. Too bad, its a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Establishment Republicans have a big-government agenda that is not representative of what their base wants. After sending a wave of Republican Senators and Congressmen over the last two election cycles, their voices have still not been heard, and they are still not represented. In this way, Republicans are directly responsible for Trump's ascendancy. He is a big middle finger towards the establishment. I just can't disagree more with this. I do agree that the base does not want poor minority people to be helped by government (Obamacare) but they are very big pro-government with entitlements. Trump has declared his promise to not touch entitlements. Look at where Bush's proposal went on privatizing SS. How about Ryan's plan to cut entitlements? Just no where plans. Both of you are wrong (or right, but I prefer to focus on the wrongness.) The base is obviously cleaved in half, between the "very conservatives" (Cruz supporters) and the "nationalists" (Trump supporters). That's the illuminating thing about Trump's campaign. Previously, almost all political observers thought the base and the Tea Party were just monolithic "very conservatives" on gov't spending and regulation. But in fact, among Tea Party voters, Trump is getting about half and many of them were former Dems from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. These two factions both have reason to hate the establishment and they've been united in their anti-progressivism and anti-establishmentarianism. But they do wan different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Too bad, its a good idea In what bizarre universe is granting amnesty to 11 million criminals a good idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 In what bizarre universe is granting amnesty to 11 million criminals a good idea? Increasing the legal population, making the overall population younger, increasing the tax base and adding more workers which creates more jobs, actually. Makes economy more efficient, bumps up consumer spending and eases the problem of paying for entitlements down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Both of you are wrong (or right, but I prefer to focus on the wrongness.) The base is obviously cleaved in half, between the "very conservatives" (Cruz supporters) and the "nationalists" (Trump supporters). That's the illuminating thing about Trump's campaign. Previously, almost all political observers thought the base and the Tea Party were just monolithic "very conservatives" on gov't spending and regulation. But in fact, among Tea Party voters, Trump is getting about half and many of them were former Dems from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. These two factions both have reason to hate the establishment and they've been united in their anti-progressivism and anti-establishmentarianism. But they do wan different things. And yet Trump is the second most "establishment" candidate left in the race behind HRC, which just goes to show a lot of Trump voters are getting suckered. At least most HRC voters are knowingly voting for an establishment candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Increasing the legal population, making the overall population younger, increasing the tax base and adding more workers which creates more jobs, actually. Makes economy more efficient, bumps up consumer spending and eases the problem of paying for entitlements down the road. By encouraging the mass flouting of the law. Genius. Also, makes understanding a significant portion of the population more difficult, waters down one party in the name of another, and ensures a further degradation of the quality of discourse in the country. Still not seeing the upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 By encouraging the mass flouting of the law. Genius. Also, makes understanding a significant portion of the population more difficult, waters down one party in the name of another, and ensures a further degradation of the quality of discourse in the country. Still not seeing the upside. Oh, makes people harder to understand...lol! Press one for English! No, its a good idea. If you don't understand economics you won't see the upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 The base is obviously cleaved in half, between the "very conservatives" (Cruz supporters) and the "nationalists" (Trump supporters). That's the illuminating thing about Trump's campaign. Previously, almost all political observers thought the base and the Tea Party were just monolithic "very conservatives" on gov't spending and regulation. But in fact, among Tea Party voters, Trump is getting about half and many of them were former Dems from the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Oh, please. The only Tea Party conservatives Trump is getting are the ones who *think* they're a Tea Party conservative because they're supporting Trump. Look at the core Tea Party folks and they're lining up behind Cruz. In fact, the closed primaries have repeatedly proven this point time and again. But you can't see that truth because you're too busy trying to convince people that Cruz had an affair with Trump's spokesperson, Katrina Pierson. Where is Katrina, Ozy? Where is the truth? Set her free! Get her the mic! Put an end to the Cruz campaign once and for all. Oh, wait, now I hear Trump may pull out of the CNN town hall tonight because he feels like CNN isn't being fair to him? Perhaps we can't find Katrina because she's too busy changing your whinyass candidate's diapers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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