I Hope We Don't Lose Whaley Because Of Rex

[thebandit27]

 

 

Sorry, Tryhard isn't going to be passing 10 TDs in two games. Probably not over 4

 

I'm pretty sure you're being obtuse here.

 

They're playing at a nearly identical level regardless of how you analyze it.

 

The issue, it seems, is that you're taking that information as being in support of Taylor's play. You may want to look at it for what it is: simply information regarding the (very) similar levels of play between two QBs.

The two teams are fairly even on the points front: The Bills have 266, and the Raiders 264. That said, the Bills have 3 defensive/ST return TDs, and the Raiders have zero--so it's really 264 offensive points for the Raiders and 245 for the Bills--. The Bills are 19th in yards and the Raiders are 11th, but running teams tend to have fewer yards. The Raiders are 27th in rushing attempts and the Bills are 4th; the Bills are 29th in passing attempts and the Raiders are 15th.

 

True. They're also very close in YPP (5.9 to 5.6) and 1st downs per game (19.7 vs. 18.7).

 

In fact, the biggest difference between the two teams in terms of yardage production is that Buffalo has over 200 more yards in penalties walked off against them than the Raiders.

[FireChan]

Whaley is only responsible for moves that work out. The ones that don't are someone else's fault and he had nothing to do with it even if he himself said unequivocally, multiple times, and in his own words that he had everything to do with it.

 

Whaley fanboy love dies hard.

The two most famous defenses are:

 

1. He was forced to make a bad move!!!!

2. Even though it didn't work out, it was somehow a great move!

[H2o]

 

If by nearly identical you mean twice the touchdowns and 900 more yards, then yes, nearly identical lol

I like Carr a lot as a QB, but we have to remember that Carr has been healthy all year and also has a full year under his belt as a starter already.

[thebandit27]

The two most famous defenses are:

 

1. He was forced to make a bad move!!!!

2. Even though it didn't work out, it was somehow a great move!

 

I'm a Whaley-supporter, and (I think you both know) I don't think that way.

 

The EJ pick proved to be a bad move. I completely understand why that pick was made, and I do think Whaley was a driving force in the decision (though I won't saddle him with 100% of the blame).

 

He should get credit for picks like Woods, Kiko, Brown, Sammy, Darby, etc. and get blame for picks like EJ, Kouandjio, etc.

 

For me, he's done a good job of putting talent on this roster, and that's his job. He needs to find a QB, which is true for about 50% of the league (at least).

 

Not enough to name him a great GM, but also not enough to fire him.

[BrooklynBills]

The Doug Whaley love is out of control. This is now the 2nd coaching staff in which there are perceived miscommunication and friction between. His draft record is looking very mediocre.

 

His 1st and 2nd round picks:

EJ Manuel, Kiko Alonso, Robert Woods, Watkins, Kouandijo, Darby (2/6)

 

3rd/4th

Goodwin, Duke Williams, Preston Brown, Ross Cockrell, John Miller (basically nothing; 2 JAGs)

 

5-7

Meeks, Dustin Hopkins, Chris Gragg, Cyril Richardson, Randell Johnson, Seantrell Henderson, Karlos Williams, Tony Steward, Nick O'Leary, Dez Lewis (a good backup RB and one of the worst starting Ts in football)

 

 

That is not good. And 1 of his hits is a guy he traded an extra 1st round pick to get into the top 5 to get basically eliminating any margin of error(and oh, by the way, he might not even be the best WR taken that year). This team's best players on offense and defense were drafted by other people save Sammy Watkins and they were all massively overpaid to acquire (including Watkins) to the point that we are in a bad cap situation moving forward and we still have many holes all over the team.

 

Please try and spin this draft record because I'm not seeing anything great here. Doug Whaley's strength is supposed to be in college scouting and we are getting nothing from the middle rounds of the draft and basically the 2nd round. We have 1 player to show for 3 year's worth of 1st round picks.

[UBBullsfan]

The Doug Whaley love is out of control. This is now the 2nd coaching staff in which there are perceived miscommunication and friction between. His draft record is looking very mediocre.

 

His 1st and 2nd round picks:

EJ Manuel, Kiko Alonso, Robert Woods, Watkins, Kouandijo, Darby (2/6)

 

3rd/4th

Goodwin, Duke Williams, Preston Brown, Ross Cockrell, John Miller (basically nothing; 2 JAGs)

 

5-7

Meeks, Dustin Hopkins, Chris Gragg, Cyril Richardson, Randell Johnson, Seantrell Henderson, Karlos Williams, Tony Steward, Nick O'Leary, Dez Lewis (a good backup RB and one of the worst starting Ts in football)

 

 

That is not good. And 1 of his hits is a guy he traded an extra 1st round pick to get into the top 5 to get basically eliminating any margin of error(and oh, by the way, he might not even be the best WR taken that year). This team's best players on offense and defense were drafted by other people save Sammy Watkins and they were all massively overpaid to acquire (including Watkins) to the point that we are in a bad cap situation moving forward and we still have many holes all over the team.

 

Please try and spin this draft record because I'm not seeing anything great here. Doug Whaley's strength is supposed to be in college scouting and we are getting nothing from the middle rounds of the draft and basically the 2nd round. We have 1 player to show for 3 year's worth of 1st round picks.

Whaley got hoodwinked with the Kouandjio pick. Dude's knee is shot.

[FireChan]

 

I'm a Whaley-supporter, and (I think you both know) I don't think that way.

 

The EJ pick proved to be a bad move. I completely understand why that pick was made, and I do think Whaley was a driving force in the decision (though I won't saddle him with 100% of the blame).

 

He should get credit for picks like Woods, Kiko, Brown, Sammy, Darby, etc. and get blame for picks like EJ, Kouandjio, etc.

 

For me, he's done a good job of putting talent on this roster, and that's his job. He needs to find a QB, which is true for about 50% of the league (at least).

 

Not enough to name him a great GM, but also not enough to fire him.

Just so you know, I don't think you're in the category I was referring to. Those are the fanatics, not the supporters. The fanatics are incapable of saying Whaley made a bad move without somehow trying to spin it into a positive.

 

And I lean more towards your assessment of DW. The QB thing is just such a problem, because the QB overrules about 80% of the rest of the team's talent.

[dave mcbride]

 

I'm a Whaley-supporter, and (I think you both know) I don't think that way.

 

The EJ pick proved to be a bad move. I completely understand why that pick was made, and I do think Whaley was a driving force in the decision (though I won't saddle him with 100% of the blame).

 

He should get credit for picks like Woods, Kiko, Brown, Sammy, Darby, etc. and get blame for picks like EJ, Kouandjio, etc.

 

For me, he's done a good job of putting talent on this roster, and that's his job. He needs to find a QB, which is true for about 50% of the league (at least).

 

Not enough to name him a great GM, but also not enough to fire him.

I agree with most of what you say here, but not regarding Woods. There are a ton of great second-round and even 3rd-round WR picks in recent years, but Woods is not one of them. He's not a credible #2 threat. TY Hilton, Alshon Jeffrey, and others. He's not a terrible pick -- he starts, after all -- but for the 9th pick of the second round, he's really, really average. He's basically interchangeable with tons of other guys across the league.

[shibuya]

Its coaching .. coaching is responsible for penalties, coaching is responsible for gameplanning

 

we have a ton of talent on this football team.. its the penalties and lack of solid gameplans that have killed this team..

 

We could argue QB play but the fact is QB play has been decent and over 70% NFL teams are still searching for improvement at the QB position...

[thebandit27]

Just so you know, I don't think you're in the category I was referring to. Those are the fanatics, not the supporters. The fanatics are incapable of saying Whaley made a bad move without somehow trying to spin it into a positive.

 

And I lean more towards your assessment of DW. The QB thing is just such a problem, because the QB overrules about 80% of the rest of the team's talent.

 

I assumed as much, which is why I tried to concede that in my post. I more or less wanted to try to summarize what I think the majority of Whaley supporters believe.

 

I agree with most of what you say here, but not regarding Woods. There are a ton of great second-round and even 3rd-round WR picks in recent years, but Woods is not one of them. He's not a credible #2 threat. TY Hilton, Alshon Jeffrey, and others. He's not a terrible pick -- he starts, after all -- but for the 9th pick of the second round, he's really, really average. He's basically interchangeable with tons of other guys across the league.

 

Fair enough re: Woods.

 

I do like how hard he competes, and he does seem to be an effective player. You're right though--too average to be considered a great pick.

[Rico]

This sounds like an employee agreeing with his new employer who just bought the team. This proves nothing about the assertion that Whaley chose Rex.

Exactly, nothing but press-talk. I'm sure if you look hard enough, you can find a quote from Marrone last year saying how pleased he was with EJ's progress.

Honestly, I hope we blow it all up and start over. All of it. Whaley, rex, everyone from the owners to the ball boys. This team is a cancer, and needs to be excised.

Should've been Pegs 1st move. Dump anyone who was associated with Ralph once-and-for-all.

[GunnerBill]

 

I'm a Whaley-supporter, and (I think you both know) I don't think that way.

 

The EJ pick proved to be a bad move. I completely understand why that pick was made, and I do think Whaley was a driving force in the decision (though I won't saddle him with 100% of the blame).

 

He should get credit for picks like Woods, Kiko, Brown, Sammy, Darby, etc. and get blame for picks like EJ, Kouandjio, etc.

 

For me, he's done a good job of putting talent on this roster, and that's his job. He needs to find a QB, which is true for about 50% of the league (at least).

 

Not enough to name him a great GM, but also not enough to fire him.

 

Which is exactly what I think as well. I think they were forced into taking a QB in that terrible 2013 class but that doesn't entirely excuse them and Whaley was clearly an EJ guy - his behaviour since indicates that.

 

EDIT: On the Woods point - I thought he had a really promising rookie year and has basically stood still since. At this moment in time I'd prefer them to throw it to Hogan.

Edited November 30, 2015 by GunnerBill

[Rico]

 

I'm a Whaley-supporter, and (I think you both know) I don't think that way.

 

The EJ pick proved to be a bad move. I completely understand why that pick was made, and I do think Whaley was a driving force in the decision (though I won't saddle him with 100% of the blame).

 

He should get credit for picks like Woods, Kiko, Brown, Sammy, Darby, etc. and get blame for picks like EJ, Kouandjio, etc.

 

For me, he's done a good job of putting talent on this roster, and that's his job. He needs to find a QB, which is true for about 50% of the league (at least).

 

Not enough to name him a great GM, but also not enough to fire him.

Enough to extend him with a nice raise? At least 5 more weeks to go till the season's over, but as things stand today, I think the arrow is pointing downward.

I agree with most of what you say here, but not regarding Woods. There are a ton of great second-round and even 3rd-round WR picks in recent years, but Woods is not one of them. He's not a credible #2 threat. TY Hilton, Alshon Jeffrey, and others. He's not a terrible pick -- he starts, after all -- but for the 9th pick of the second round, he's really, really average. He's basically interchangeable with tons of other guys across the league.

Agreed. I like him, but he's far from an impact player.

[GG]

Enough to extend him with a nice raise? At least 5 more weeks to go till the season's over, but as things stand today, I think the arrow is pointing downward.

 

 

That he hasn't been extended yet speaks volumes. Look for a front office shakeup at the end of the season, similar to what happened with Sabres.

[birdog1960]

the real question is "can the bills do better than whaley?". i'll bet the pegula's conclude that they can.

[Section242]

 

Overpaid for skill positions and negleted the line and the QB position who you need to impact the skill positions. This is why acquisitions like McCoy, Watkins and Clay have had no impact on the Bills winning more games.

 

Whaley has no idea how to build a team.

 

Everybody knows how to build a football team. Nobody can find a QB.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

Whaley has asembled a very talented, young upcoming team whose coach has brought them down. I expect Rex to stay and Whaley to leave as Rex gets more power from Peggy to turn things around. Rex is a gm killer. Jets lost two under his watch...yes ,,under. He stayed and they hired a new GM that had to keep Rex the first year per owner Johnson. History will repeat itself as Rex will sell him as the saviour to this team/franchise.

[boater]

Whaley has asembled a very talented, young upcoming team whose coach has brought them down. I expect Rex to stay and Whaley to leave as Rex gets more power from Peggy to turn things around. Rex is a gm killer. Jets lost two under his watch...yes ,,under. He stayed and they hired a new GM that had to keep Rex the first year per owner Johnson. History will repeat itself as Rex will sell him as the saviour to this team/franchise.

I think Pegs is smarter than to let RR gain more power. It's patently evident RR can't deal with what he has on his plate now--Peg's can see that. He won't give him more power.

Edited November 30, 2015 by boater

[BobbyC81]

The problem isn't Rex getting more authority regarding personnel it is the authority that he already has in that area. His defense has underachieved compared to how it performed last year. It won't be surprising that he will want to bring in players who he believes better fit his scheme preference.

 

Whaley is stuck with Rex for the foreseeable future. Their futures are intertwined by their respective performances. In my view Whaley is being more damaged with Rex on board than Rex is being damaged by Whaley being on board.

 

Rex was a bad hire and the consequences will reverberate throughout the organization. Or another way of looking at it is that Rex is the perpetrator and Whaley is the victim. When you hire a huckster what do you expect? A happy ending? I don't think so!

 

The only problem with that is it appeared that they hired an experienced head coach to take the existing roster and do more with it than Marrone did. Then they also added the likes of McCoy, Percy Harvin and Clay to win now. I doubt the Pegulas expected this step back before any possible steps forward to allow Rex time to get "his guys". All that money was invested in the D-Line with 2 of them over 30 with that unit expected to continue to be elite.

Edited November 30, 2015 by LittleJoeCartwright

[birdog1960]

The Doug Whaley love is out of control. This is now the 2nd coaching staff in which there are perceived miscommunication and friction between. His draft record is looking very mediocre.

 

His 1st and 2nd round picks:

EJ Manuel, Kiko Alonso, Robert Woods, Watkins, Kouandijo, Darby (2/6)

 

3rd/4th

Goodwin, Duke Williams, Preston Brown, Ross Cockrell, John Miller (basically nothing; 2 JAGs)

 

5-7

Meeks, Dustin Hopkins, Chris Gragg, Cyril Richardson, Randell Johnson, Seantrell Henderson, Karlos Williams, Tony Steward, Nick O'Leary, Dez Lewis (a good backup RB and one of the worst starting Ts in football)

 

 

That is not good. And 1 of his hits is a guy he traded an extra 1st round pick to get into the top 5 to get basically eliminating any margin of error(and oh, by the way, he might not even be the best WR taken that year). This team's best players on offense and defense were drafted by other people save Sammy Watkins and they were all massively overpaid to acquire (including Watkins) to the point that we are in a bad cap situation moving forward and we still have many holes all over the team.

 

Please try and spin this draft record because I'm not seeing anything great here. Doug Whaley's strength is supposed to be in college scouting and we are getting nothing from the middle rounds of the draft and basically the 2nd round. We have 1 player to show for 3 year's worth of 1st round picks.

this is it. i think this is a fair assessment. all these picks are on whaley and it's far from a top notch performance. the bills can do better. and we'll see how many offers whaley gets. he might still be available as a scout.