thebandit27 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 The First primetime game of Jeremy Shockey's career the announcer ( who I believe was Collins ) said this: " Im not ready to put him in the HOF just yet, but this kid is special " How is that relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Oh well, to each there own. I think hes ok, that is about it. Hopefully this year, he will change my mind. Lets talk about this topic after the game. I will be around and if he has a good game, the Bills have a good chance of winning. Like 3 posts ago you said one of the top in the whole league but not revis/Sherman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Just an honest question. What about that matchup leads people to believe that this is the ideal pairing. Wouldnt it be better to put Lawson who has proven that he can stay with smaller faster guys while nullifying Gronkowskis length and coming in a mere 20-25 pounds lighter. I think a second option would be Bradham. I just dont think I like the idea of safeties and certainly cbs matched up with the big guy. Any ideas would be greatly welcomed. Agree w/ that. Started thinking about this almost as soon as the Colts game was done. Gronk is a big man. Gilmore, to me, just doesn't have the size to take him down. Plus, he has a tendency to get dinged up. If he tries to cover Gronk all game, by the end of the first half, he'll be thinking he's Happy Gilmore rather than Stephon Gilmore. Nevertheless, Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 If you guys have been mindblown because he has played 1 good quarter of football in year 3 ( 2 of those games against the Raiders and the Pats reserves in Week 17 ) then I finally understand what 15 years of mediocrity can do to ones perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 If you guys have been mindblown because he has played 1 good quarter of football in year 3 ( 2 of those games against the Raiders and the Pats reserves in Week 17 ) then I finally understand what 15 years of mediocrity can do to ones perception. And yet for all the trash you're talking in this thread, you refuse to give specifics as to what he can do better to exceed his draft position. Could it be because you have no specifics and in fact do not know what you're talking about when it comes to evaluating defensive back play in the NFL? Great minds will ponder that question for years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 And yet for all the trash you're talking in this thread, you refuse to give specifics as to what he can do better to exceed his draft position. Could it be because you have no specifics and in fact do not know what you're talking about when it comes to evaluating defensive back play in the NFL? Great minds will ponder that question for years... Go ahead with your analysis first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 If you guys have been mindblown because he has played 1 good quarter of football in year 3 ( 2 of those games against the Raiders and the Pats reserves in Week 17 ) then I finally understand what 15 years of mediocrity can do to ones perception.he didn't play against the Pats reserves in week 17. He didn't play at all. He got hurt in the raiders game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Its an opinion. But hey, im trash talking he didn't play against the Pats reserves in week 17. He didn't play at all. He got hurt in the raiders game. So there ya go, the last quarter of the year he was so good that he played 2 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Just an honest question. What about that matchup leads people to believe that this is the ideal pairing. Wouldnt it be better to put Lawson who has proven that he can stay with smaller faster guys while nullifying Gronkowskis length and coming in a mere 20-25 pounds lighter. I think a second option would be Bradham. I just dont think I like the idea of safeties and certainly cbs matched up with the big guy. Any ideas would be greatly welcomed. Agree w/ that. I started thinking about this almost as soon as the Colts game was over. Gronk is a big lug. Defenders like Gilmore would bounce right off of him. Plus he has a tendency to get dinged up. If he gets assigned to cover Gronk the whole game, I'm afraid by the end of the first half, he'll think he's Happy Gilmore rather than Stephon Gilmore. Nevertheless, Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Go ahead with your analysis first! So, in other words, you have nothing to add and are only trolling. Shocking! I've given mine. He played a fantastic '14 campaign, with his best play coming down the stretch in season against elite passing attacks (Denver on the road, Rodgers at home) and started off the 15 campaign by leading all NFL DBs in pass deflections in Week 1 and that was against Luck. He's big enough to play physical and athletically gifted enough to cover quicker guys. He's got a great understanding of how WRs try to attack him, he's humble, works his ass off, and is playing lights out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Its an opinion. But hey, im trash talking It's a controversial opinion you have refused to back up in any way. That leaves it residing in the neighborhood of trolling. You can make the move to a respectable spot but have refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I don't think it matters who gaurds Gronk. You still need a guy over top b/c nobody can contain him one-on-one. Hell, at points you'll see 3 guys around him. The key is Edleman. If someone can shut Edleman down the entire offense falls apart for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Go ahead with your analysis first! Actually ex.....since you are the one that is making the assumption he is falling short of expectations then you should provide the analysis. Dont be lazy and ask someone to do it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Gilmore is a talent. He was a little inconsistent after his injury but has bounced back strongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 This is an unorthodox suggestion, but why not put Chris Gragg on him in obvious passing situations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY315 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) And yet for all the trash you're talking in this thread, you refuse to give specifics as to what he can do better to exceed his draft position. Could it be because you have no specifics and in fact do not know what you're talking about when it comes to evaluating defensive back play in the NFL? Great minds will ponder that question for years... He's trolling. I generally can spot it on other forums but I usually don't see much of it on here. Edited September 19, 2015 by CNY315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted September 19, 2015 Author Share Posted September 19, 2015 Gilmore is big, physical, and corners tend to really do well on tight ends despite fans fearing the size issue. I recall in the jimmy graham tag discussion that when covered by a corner his targets dropped, when targeted his catch percentage dropped 5-10% (or something similar), his ypc dropped. He essentially went from elite passing stats against anyone but a corner to his comp being like the 63rd best receiving threat against a CB. (63 being made up but it was in that bad 2 to good 3 range, if I recall) Part of the "you don't pay a tight end like a wr" argument was that their numbers go down pretty noticeably if a defense ever commits to using a corner on them while a Dez or Johnson or... puts up those top numbers against the top pass defender. In the graham data it was even small corners like grimes that did fine against him. I wouldn't do it alllll day but in multiple TE sets, sure thing I am. Very logical except wouldnt that moreso the case because of the athletic edge. Gronk seems to shift the paradigm in terms of what a big tight end can do. He is an anomaly and i would wonder what those same stats are for Gronk. Your point might hold true but it would be interesting none the less You clearly didn't watch the last quarter of the '14 season where Gilmore was arguably a top 3 CB in the NFL. And his performance against the Colts was outstanding, all pro type performance. To say so isn't wearing rose colored glasses, it's just reality. Top 3? Top 3rd maybe. Ill even say to 10-15 but 3? That sounds quite lofty The two most important players on the Gronk factor tomorrow - Manny Lawson.....many is the only bills player on our team that has both coverage ability AND has the size in order to affect Gronk.....he should be involved all day in bracketing Gronk has he comes off the line wherever he is at. - Marcel D. .......while our DE's will no doubt create pressure from the outside......Brady will then want to slightly climb the pocket to buy a couple of precious seconds keeping his eyes downfield. When he does this he needs to run right into Marcel and his loving grasp. Brady needs to be made to be REALLY uncomfortable in the pocket forcing him to get rid of the ball fast....which means short throws....which we need to make sure we are surely tackled with no run after catch OR knock the ball away OR create the turnover And then we need our DL to shut down their running game THis is when they even have the ball which we should ensure they dont by long time consuming drives with points at the end of those drives. Methinks you need to learn more football.....so that you can understand what you are watching. Gilmore is a EXTREMEY physical corner.....aside from that dropped int last week he played exactly how you would want from a pro bowl corner If Gilmore plays the rest of the season like he did last week he is probowl caliber. To me it's just to small a sample size right now Nah, post some of these avoided tackles I think it's more the diving shoulder tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I trust Rex, he has defended Gronk pretty well through most of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted September 19, 2015 Author Share Posted September 19, 2015 I trust Rex, he has defended Gronk pretty well through most of his career. What had he done? Had he used lbs safeties soft zones? What can i expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Top 3? Top 3rd maybe. Ill even say to 10-15 but 3? That sounds quite lofty "Arguably top 3" -- which is a key modifier and why we can argue it. But if you look at the Denver game and the Green Bay game I can't think of too many corners last year who were playing better. Sherman, Revis, maybe Peterson (but I didn't watch Peterson a lot last year so I have no way to judge his play). And of course last week he was lights out and leads the league in PDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 What had he done? Had he used lbs safeties soft zones? What can i expect? I am not smart enough in how I watch football to know. I have seen it posted around here that Gronk has been fairly limited when he has played against the Jets. In eight games against Ryan’s defenses, Gronk has 39 career catches for 461 yards and five touchdowns. That's about 4.5 catches, 57 yards, and a .6 TD's a game. And considering how the Jets secondary was oblitrated last season for 2 of those games I would say Ryan has done a decent job against Gronk. He hasn't shut him down but he has seemed to handle him well for such a dangerous player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) Very logical except wouldnt that moreso the case because of the athletic edge. Gronk seems to shift the paradigm in terms of what a big tight end can do. He is an anomaly and i would wonder what those same stats are for Gronk. Your point might hold true but it would be interesting none the less Top 3? Top 3rd maybe. Ill even say to 10-15 but 3? That sounds quite lofty If Gilmore plays the rest of the season like he did last week he is probowl caliber. To me it's just to small a sample size right now I think it's more the diving shoulder tackles. Basically what he said is how I feel. In regards to Gilmore, Its just my opinion, its not trolling. I dont feel he has lived up to his 10th pick status. Lets hope the Bills kill the Patriots and Gilmore proves me wrong. Edited September 19, 2015 by fredex22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Basically what he said is how I feel. In regards to Gilmore, Its just my opinion, its not trolling. I dont feel he has lived up to his 10th pick status. Lets hope the Bills kill the Patriots and Gilmore proves me wrong. It's absolutely trolling when you don't answer any questions but expect folks to answer yours. You say you don't feel he's "lived up to his 10th pick status" (even though you've said previously his good play is "just doing his job") but you haven't given ANY specifics as to why you feel that way or what he needs to do to improve. Leaving aside that your analysis is severely silly (and it is), you could at least try to give reasons why you feel this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Because I feel that in the 3 years he has played for the Bills he has missed some assignments, is oft-injured, takes bad angles on tackles, takes bad penalties. I believe Ive written a few times that its just my opinion. I dont need to justify it to anyone. You guys see the potential in the boy. I am all in with the BILLS. But IMO, he will have to show more for me to sit here and read all the love you guys give him for basically doing nothing special on defense. You can have the last word. I believe that all you posters are good guys and we want to see the Bills lift that Effin Trophy that has eluded them for decades. All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 Because I feel that in the 3 years he has played for the Bills he has missed some assignments, is oft-injured, takes bad angles on tackles, takes bad penalties. I believe Ive written a few times that its just my opinion. I dont need to justify it to anyone. You guys see the potential in the boy. I am all in with the BILLS. But IMO, he will have to show more for me to sit here and read all the love you guys give him for basically doing nothing special on defense. You can have the last word. I believe that all you posters are good guys and we want to see the Bills lift that Effin Trophy that has eluded them for decades. All the best Thats a good response. I made this thread in hopes of understanding why people would give him that assignment when thats what i thought we got lawson for. For the most part this was a GREAT turnout and I am glad that there are such knowledgeable fans both in buffalo and on this blog. I appreciate the participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Once again, gilmore had a below average game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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