New team - levitre still terrible

[Big C]

I like our guards. They didn't play lights out but I think the line will gel in time.

Richie had a great game.

[John from Riverside]

So when does this turn into a EJ Manuel thread?

[prissythecat]

So when does this turn into a EJ Manuel thread?

 

May not be many discussions about EJ this season if he is inactive most weeks.

[Alaska Darin]

 

Overall, combined talent.

 

But we will have to agree to disagree just like we do about Shady........who had what? 7 runs for a loss yesterday?

 

Did you catch the graphic about Shady having the lowest yards per touch in the NFL last year among players who had 250 or more combined touches?

 

Fun to watch but average production.......and that was LAST year....running behind Jason Peters and Evan Mathis.

Which has as much to do with Chip Kelly's offense as anything. Demarco Murray have a good game yesterday?

 

How many of those 7 loss carries were on the RB? How many were on the OLine?

[dave mcbride]

Overall, combined talent.

 

But we will have to agree to disagree just like we do about Shady........who had what? 7 runs for a loss yesterday?

 

Did you catch the graphic about Shady having the lowest yards per touch in the NFL last year among players who had 250 or more combined touches?

 

Fun to watch but average production.......and that was LAST year....running behind Jason Peters and Evan Mathis.

To be fair, in the first 4 games last season when the eagles were missing lane johnson, McCoy averaged 2.7 ypc. In the final 12, he averaged 4.7. Bottom line: the line play around him has to be good.

 

As for GreggyT's point about Kelly's system suppressing his numbers, in Kelly's first year McCoy had a career year.

 

For the record, I suspect that McCoy is going to disappoint us, even if just slightly. I'm guessing he'll end up with about 1200 yards and. 4.0 average provided he doesn't get hurt. That's decent, and not great.

Which has as much to do with Chip Kelly's offense as anything. Demarco Murray have a good game yesterday?

 

How many of those 7 loss carries were on the RB? How many were on the OLine?

But McCoy had sensational numbers in his first season under Kelly. My brother lives in the Philly area and watches all of their games, and while he thinks McCoy is good, he thought he had lost a tiny bit of burst last year.

Edited September 15, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Blokestradamus]

He saw a lot of Fletcher Cox last night. I'm willing to give Levitre a pass considering he's just arrived in Atlanta and Cox can make All-Pro calibre players look stupid.

 

Still wouldn't have him in Buffalo for any price.

[GunnerBill]

 

For the record, I suspect that McCoy is going to disappoint us, even if just slightly. I'm guessing he'll end up with about 1200 yards and. 4.0 average provided he doesn't get hurt. That's decent, and not great.

 

I tend to agree with that rough level of production. The other difference he makes though is the fear factor that exists when he is on the field. Teams know he can break a big one at any moment and it impacts how they defend us as a whole. Even if he is decent not great I believe his presence will improve the rest of the offense.

[The Dean]

Which has as much to do with Chip Kelly's offense as anything. Demarco Murray have a good game yesterday?

 

How many of those 7 loss carries were on the RB? How many were on the OLine?

 

 

Nope. But Sproles had 50 rushing yards on only 5 carries.

[hondo in seattle]

I hated when we lost Levitre because it's been forever since we had a good offensive line.

 

But his price tag was too high.

 

(Oh, sorry, is this a Shady thread?)

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

Well, for one, the guy was (and hopefully is) a workhorse. If he can stay healthy, handle a heavy workload and get the yardage (and average over 4 YPC) again, I'll be OK with the trade. But the guy played in a VERY RB friendly offense with a really good offensive line. I didn't think he looked like an elite back, for most of last year.

 

And how typical of TSW to make a Levitre thread into a McCoy thread. We are classic!

 

He handles the ball a lot but I am not sure workhorse is an accurate description.

 

It implies a physical toll that McCoy doesn't exact on defenses.

 

A 4.0 ypc back that hammers a defense has added value over his yards per play..........a guy who stops in his tracks and hops into the air as he is being tackled provides little resistance.

 

It's one of the reasons he is durable.

 

And there is definitely a relationship between the Levitre situation and Shady. In the Levitre case, the Bills were willing to roll the dice on much lesser players adequately filling the guard position. In the case of Shady.....the Bills did the exact opposite. They went overboard.....trading a very talented young player and then forking over a big contract......for a high mileage player at a relatively easy position to stock who was coming off a down production year.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

He handles the ball a lot but I am not sure workhorse is an accurate description.

 

It implies a physical toll that McCoy doesn't exact on defenses.

 

A 4.0 ypc back that hammers a defense has added value over his yards per play..........a guy who stops in his tracks and hops into the air as he is being tackled provides little resistance.

 

It's one of the reasons he is durable.

 

And there is definitely a relationship between the Levitre situation and Shady. In the Levitre case, the Bills were willing to roll the dice on much lesser players adequately filling the guard position. In the case of Shady.....the Bills did the exact opposite. They went overboard.....trading a very talented young player (who didn't play a down in 2014 and has had 2 knee injuries) and then forking over a big contract......for a high mileage player (who has only missed 6 games in his career and is only 2 years older than the "young" player they traded away) at a relatively easy position to stock who was coming off a down production year.

 

Let's not let the facts get in the way of you rewriting history.

Edited September 15, 2015 by GreggyT

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Let's not let the facts get in the way of you rewriting history.

 

The slant is yours.

 

ACL's are not career ending injuries. They aren't even career threatening any longer.

 

As for his age.......who cares? It's the mileage on the entire body when it comes to RB's. He isn't a physical back so getting tackled 600+ times the past two season isn't the same as a DeMarco Murray doing the same.......but he also isn't a 230# RB who can withstand that either.

 

I wasn't against adding McCoy......i KNOW they needed a feature RB......but all things considered they should have got him for a late round pick and they shouldn't have re-done his deal. Instead they traded Alonso for his negotiating rights.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

The slant is yours.

 

ACL's are not career ending injuries. They aren't even career threatening any longer.

 

As for his age.......who cares? It's the mileage on the entire body when it comes to RB's. He isn't a physical back so getting tackled 600+ times the past two season isn't the same as a DeMarco Murray doing the same.......but he also isn't a 230# RB who can withstand that either.

 

I wasn't against adding McCoy......i KNOW they needed a feature RB......but all things considered they should have got him for a late round pick and they shouldn't have re-done his deal. Instead they traded Alonso for his negotiating rights.

 

I don't care about his age but you're the one who's posting the Bills overreacted by trading a "young" player when their age difference is negligible. And then you bring up the mileage on Shady without mentioning Kiko's blown out the same knee twice. Like I said, I'm not trying to change your mind but let's not rewrite history to suit your take.

Edited September 15, 2015 by GreggyT

[BADOLBILZ]

I know you got a lot invested in support of Shady........you went so far as to see you've seen every carry of his in his career, right?

 

But the burden of proof is on him.

 

Last year he was an average Joe who got touches like a superstar.

 

Like I said, I hope he proves me wrong.

[Deranged Rhino]

I know you got a lot invested in support of Shady........you went so far as to see you've seen every carry of his in his career, right?

 

But the burden of proof is on him.

 

Last year he was an average Joe who got touches like a superstar.

 

Like I said, I hope he proves me wrong.

 

I have nothing invested in supporting Shady. I'm a JAG. I have many years invested in seeing the Bills win.

(But yes, I've watched him his whole career and believe wholeheartedly he's an elite RB in the NFL, as his career has proven.)

[The Dean]

 

He handles the ball a lot but I am not sure workhorse is an accurate description.

 

It implies a physical toll that McCoy doesn't exact on defenses.

 

A 4.0 ypc back that hammers a defense has added value over his yards per play..........a guy who stops in his tracks and hops into the air as he is being tackled provides little resistance.

 

It's one of the reasons he is durable.

 

And there is definitely a relationship between the Levitre situation and Shady. In the Levitre case, the Bills were willing to roll the dice on much lesser players adequately filling the guard position. In the case of Shady.....the Bills did the exact opposite. They went overboard.....trading a very talented young player and then forking over a big contract......for a high mileage player at a relatively easy position to stock who was coming off a down production year.

 

 

I agree with most of this, except for your definition of "workhorse". i understand where you are going with this, but a guy who gets all the touches he does, is a workhorse, IMO. Dealing out punishment in the process is obviously an added plus.

[JohnC]

 

The slant is yours.

 

ACL's are not career ending injuries. They aren't even career threatening any longer.

 

As for his age.......who cares? It's the mileage on the entire body when it comes to RB's. He isn't a physical back so getting tackled 600+ times the past two season isn't the same as a DeMarco Murray doing the same.......but he also isn't a 230# RB who can withstand that either.

 

I wasn't against adding McCoy......i KNOW they needed a feature RB......but all things considered they should have got him for a late round pick and they shouldn't have re-done his deal. Instead they traded Alonso for his negotiating rights.

Whaley was not looking for a long term investment with the acquisition of McCoy. He has publicly stated that he wants to end the playoff drought as soon as possible, not down the road. DW gave up a future first round pick to select a play maker receiver last year. My point being that he is all in on immediate results compared to patiently waiting for down the road results. In DW's mind if he can get a quick return on McCoy then he considers it worthwhile. For a franchise that has been out of the playoffs for 15 consecutive years I have no problem with that urgency mind-set.

 

The NFL staffing system is built with plenty of player movements and contract considerations. So it isn't unreasonable to take a chance on a player such as McCoy because the window of opportunity is limited. The Bills have an exceptional defense that is in its prime. The offense prior to this year was an anchor dragging down this team and squandering the work of a dominant defense. Whaley went out and got pieces such as McCoy, Harvin, Clay and the costly Watkins. With a new owner who is willing to be looser with the wallet than the more parsimonious previous owner DW is not holding back, he's going for it. I find that attitude refreshing.

 

Being bold is better than being boring, especially for a franchise that has been mostly irrelevant. I salute him for his more aggressive approach.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

I agree with most of this, except for your definition of "workhorse". i understand where you are going with this, but a guy who gets all the touches he does, is a workhorse, IMO. Dealing out punishment in the process is obviously an added plus.

 

 

That's where the yard per carry and touch come in. McCoy ran for almost exactly the league AVERAGE per rush. That's every back. If a guy like Marshawn Lynch runs for 4.2 ypc.....you can live with that because he is punishing a defense and softening it up for late game success. A guy like McCoy not so much.

[Utah John]

About Levitre -- this started as a statement that he's still terrible. He was NOT terrible when he was with the Bills. In fact he was pretty good, and his departure set the entire Bills' offense back. It wasn't his fault Tennessee offered him way more than he was worth. It could be that he looked better in Buffalo than Tennessee, which seems to happen to a lot of former Bills who leave in free agency, reflecting I suppose that the schemes they're using, how good the players around him are, injuries, and so on. If the Bills had decided to match the offer for Levitre, I don't think the Dareus extension would have been possible.

[BADOLBILZ]

Whaley was not looking for a long term investment with the acquisition of McCoy. He has publicly stated that he wants to end the playoff drought as soon as possible, not down the road. DW gave up a future first round pick to select a play maker receiver last year. My point being that he is all in on immediate results compared to patiently waiting for down the road results. In DW's mind if he can get a quick return on McCoy then he considers it worthwhile. For a franchise that has been out of the playoffs for 15 consecutive years I have no problem with that urgency mind-set.

 

The NFL staffing system is built with plenty of player movements and contract considerations. So it isn't unreasonable to take a chance on a player such as McCoy because the window of opportunity is limited. The Bills have an exceptional defense that is in its prime. The offense prior to this year was an anchor dragging down this team and squandering the work of a dominant defense. Whaley went out and got pieces such as McCoy, Harvin, Clay and the costly Watkins. With a new owner who is willing to be looser with the wallet than the more parsimonious previous owner DW is not holding back, he's going for it. I find that attitude refreshing.

 

Being bold is better than being boring, especially for a franchise that has been mostly irrelevant. I salute him for his more aggressive approach.

 

I'm with you on the being bold but I think it got out of hand.......especially when McCoy demanded a new contract when the only trade value he really had was because of a pre-paid signing bonus that lessened his cap hit.