Dante Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 The horror. In all, over three waves of attacks, 3,300 tons of bombs were dropped on the city. Many of the bombs that were dropped were incendiary bombs. These created so much fire that a firestorm developed. The more the city burned, the more oxygen was sucked in – and the greater the firestorm became. It is thought that the temperature peaked at 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit. The surface of roads melted and fleeing people found that their feet were burned as they ran. http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/world-war-two/the-bombing-campaign-of-world-war-two/the-bombing-of-dresden/ War really is hell. Even though I've never been directly involved it's not hard to imagine the terrible situation it is. It seems lots of people are way to eager to engage in it these days. Usually it's the guys that don't have to participate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 War really is hell. Even though I've never been directly involved it's not hard to imagine the terrible situation it is. It seems lots of people are way to eager to engage in it these days. Usually it's the guys that don't have to participate Agreed. Europeons are so antiwar because they have seen it first hand many times. I hate chicken hawks. War is hell like you stated. It must be terrifying hearing a B52 heading your way, carpet bombing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 The horror. In all, over three waves of attacks, 3,300 tons of bombs were dropped on the city. Many of the bombs that were dropped were incendiary bombs. These created so much fire that a firestorm developed. The more the city burned, the more oxygen was sucked in – and the greater the firestorm became. It is thought that the temperature peaked at 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit. The surface of roads melted and fleeing people found that their feet were burned as they ran. http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/world-war-two/the-bombing-campaign-of-world-war-two/the-bombing-of-dresden/ My dad never spoke about it much, but I know he had nightmares occasionally. His mother also never forgave herself because she left him standing on a street corner with his brother while she went to find her own mother. She only left them for a few minutes, but can you imagine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Agreed. Europeons are so antiwar because they have seen it first hand many times. I hate chicken hawks. War is hell like you stated. It must be terrifying hearing a B52 heading your way, carpet bombing You would never hear a B-52 I'm not saying that Japan was in the right, but Dec 7 was an attack on a military installation, and Aug 6 was an indiscriminate flattening of an entire city. And then we did it again. I don't think it is fair to compare the two. Hiroshima was a major military headquarters. Nagasaki, among other things produced steel and arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 The reason Japan was bombed twice was because Germany had surrendered. One bomb was destined for Berlin, one for Japan. Dont forget, Aug.6,1945 would not be possible without Dec. 7, 1941 Actually, both were destined for Germany initially. One for Hamburg...I've never heard conclusively about a target for the other, but Berlin's a good a guess as any (I've always favored Leipzig, myself - frankly, Berlin was a lousy bombing target. Too diffuse and spread out.) The horror. In all, over three waves of attacks, 3,300 tons of bombs were dropped on the city. Many of the bombs that were dropped were incendiary bombs. These created so much fire that a firestorm developed. The more the city burned, the more oxygen was sucked in – and the greater the firestorm became. It is thought that the temperature peaked at 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit. The surface of roads melted and fleeing people found that their feet were burned as they ran. http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/world-war-two/the-bombing-campaign-of-world-war-two/the-bombing-of-dresden/ That's a pretty lousy, sensationalized summary. The bomb load was closer to 2400 tons - 3300 sounds like they included the diversionary raid on Bohlen and the ineffectual American raids the following day. And the generally accepted death toll is around 25k (supported by contemporary records - the civil authorities documented something like 22k death certificates. Modern statistical research bears that out. Personally, I think that's low, as there's no good way of accounting for the refugees in Dresden...but no credible historian believes the number is above 35k.) You would never hear a B-52 Ask an Iraqi veteran of the Gulf War. The most frightening things for the Iraqi soldiers about B-52 raids is that they flew so high you never saw or heard them coming. The first they knew about it was when their entire world exploded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Hiroshima was a major military headquarters. Nagasaki, among other things produced steel and arms. Hiroshima was also a major depot, major port, and naval base. Meaning that for the defense of Kyushu, a lot of the support would have come through there. With a large part of the rest coming through Nagasaki. Little known fact: Fat Man almost missed Nagasaki. Literally, almost missed a city with a nuclear bomb. Because Nagasaki was a notoriously difficult target - climate and geography made it difficult to discern visually or on radar. That's why it was never bombed heavily...not to save it for The Bomb. Because they usually couldn't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRUU9UeOnwU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 I'm not saying that Japan was in the right, but Dec 7 was an attack on a military installation, and Aug 6 was an indiscriminate flattening of an entire city. And then we did it again. I don't think it is fair to compare the two. Now what Japan did to other nations around the Pacific rim, like Korea, China, and the Philippines for example, was just flat out terrible. Yeah, laying an atomic bomb on a city full of civilians is a lot different. And saying "they were warned" is pretty ridiculous. Do you think the civilians had a choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Yeah, laying an atomic bomb on a city full of civilians is a lot different. And saying "they were warned" is pretty ridiculous. Do you think the civilians had a choice? Civilians? No such thing in Imperial Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Civilians? No such thing in Imperial Japan. I'm guessing that you're the most likely around here to know this, but didn't we have a 3rd bomb that we were going to drop on Kyoto had the Japanese not surrendered when they did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Civilians? No such thing in Imperial Japan. There were plenty; many workers imported from Japanese colonies who had no choice of being there; have relatives taken from Hong Kong to Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 There were plenty; many workers imported from Japanese colonies who had no choice of being there; When Caucasians do this it's called slavery When non-Caucasians do this it's called a guest worker program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) Had nothing to do with japan. They were an utterly defeated nation whether they surrendered or not. US was looking past japan into post war geoplitics. The primary purpose was to show the soviets we had a doomsday weapon and we were crazy enough to use it on defenseless civilians. In that sense it was a huge act of terrorism. Edited August 8, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Had nothing to do with japan. They were an utterly defeated nation whether they surrendered or not. US was looking past japan into post war geoplitics. The primary purpose was to show the soviets we had a doomsday weapon and we were crazy enough to use it on defenseless civilians. In that sense it was a huge act of terrorism. Soviets, Stalin knew of its existence well in advance thanks to Fuchs! In lieu of being utterly defeated they refused surrender unconditionally. Ultimately the only condition 'on the quiet' was the Emperor. An Allied landing like Normandy, Operation Downfall , had so few beaches suitable in Japan that everyone, including the Japanese knew precisely where it would be, Allied losses were predicted to b extremely high. The Japanese command was insane, just insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Civilians? No such thing in Imperial Japan. I agree the civilian population was being prepared to combat any invasion forces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 One explanation I heard was Truman wanted to end the war quickly with Japan before Russia made it there. With Japan so dependent on oil imports , a lengthy blockade , and military factory bombing might have ended it without invasion if not for Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadako_and_the_Thousand_Paper_Cranes I am not exactly a peacenik... But when my daughter was younger (13 now), this book got me to be able to construct a paper crane... FWIW... Edited August 8, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 There were plenty; many workers imported from Japanese colonies who had no choice of being there; have relatives taken from Hong Kong to Japan. I said "civilians." Under the accepted laws of war, slave labor isn't considered "civilians." They're slaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33755182 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33754931 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I'm guessing that you're the most likely around here to know this, but didn't we have a 3rd bomb that we were going to drop on Kyoto had the Japanese not surrendered when they did? Unlikely, since Kyoto was declared off-limits to even conventional bombing on cultural grounds. Though they could have...the fourth core (the "Demon core," which in two separate lab accidents killed one physicist and one dumbass) could have been ready by the end of the month. Beyond that, they were having critical shortages of components for bombs. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-33754931 Ignorant revisionism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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