truth on hold Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Why should they? An actual default leaves them no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 An actual default leaves them no choice.An actual default is far worse for Greece than it's creditors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) The Decadence of the Liberal Mind in One Sentence As the Greek economy continues its predictable slow motion collapse, one of the early WSJ accounts of the inevitable bank closures and capital controls imposed yesterday has one of the funniest sentences I’ve read in a long time, but which is also fully revealing of the decadence of the liberal mind: “How can something like this happen without prior warning?” asked Angeliki Psarianou, a 67-year-old retired public servant, who stood in the drizzle after arriving too late at one empty ATM in the Greek capital. No warning? Check. Retired public servant? Check. But, but . . . how can we run out of other people’s money? We still have pension checks left. Hello, Detroit? I think we’ve found your next mayor. For more on how “no one could see this coming,” See Steve Hanke, “Greece: The Financial Zombie State.” Edited June 30, 2015 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 The Decadence of the Liberal Mind in One Sentence As the Greek economy continues its predictable slow motion collapse, one of the early WSJ accounts of the inevitable bank closures and capital controls imposed yesterday has one of the funniest sentences I’ve read in a long time, but which is also fully revealing of the decadence of the liberal mind: “How can something like this happen without prior warning?” asked Angeliki Psarianou, a 67-year-old retired public servant, who stood in the drizzle after arriving too late at one empty ATM in the Greek capital. No warning? Check. Retired public servant? Check. But, but . . . how can we run out of other people’s money? We still have pension checks left. Hello, Detroit? I think we’ve found your next mayor. For more on how “no one could see this coming,” See Steve Hanke, “Greece: The Financial Zombie State.” He's probably been retired for 20 years now, to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 From what I've read, their debt is in Euros even if/when they switch back to the drachma. Given that the drachma will almost certainly go into an inflationary spiral...how are they going to service a debt valued in Euros as their currency falls against the Euro? Seems to me that Greece is pretty much screwed either way - they can put drastic austerity measures in place and stay in the Eurozone, or they can get kicked out of the Eurozone and have drastic austerity measures forced on them by devaluation of the drachma. Yeah, that's why it's bizarro world that Greece is playing hardball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yeah, that's why it's bizarro world that Greece is playing hardball. The Greek people are screwed no matter what they do, so they're standing on principle. They refuse to accept that their socialist policies failed, so they choose to blame the system that cut off their supply of other people's money instead. They believe that leaving the EU is a way they can hurt the "fat-cat bankers" who stopped the gravy train. At this point, it's no longer about saving their economy (something many of their citizens believe can't get much worse), but on how many countries they can take down with them. Basically, they're throwing a temper tantrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 The Greek people are screwed no matter what they do, so they're standing on principle. They refuse to accept that their socialist policies failed, so they choose to blame the system that cut off their supply of other people's money instead. They believe that leaving the EU is a way they can hurt the "fat-cat bankers" who stopped the gravy train. At this point, it's no longer about saving their economy (something many of their citizens believe can't get much worse), but on how many countries they can take down with them. Basically, they're throwing a temper tantrum. Probably while having strands of that ancient stand against Xerxes wafting in their heads too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Probably while having strands of that ancient stand against Xerxes wafting in their heads too. I was little sympathetic towards the people of Greece until I started reading opinions and comments they left on these articles. Those people are (almost) as delusional as Patriots' fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) An actual default is far worse for Greece than it's creditors.Why? Edited June 30, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Can't feel sorry for the lazy, stupid and selfish that fall for the lie of leftist governments. The only scary part is the brainwashing and mind control they have been subjected to makes them incapable of properly assessing their situation. Still believing in the bullshite that got them in trouble. Forever devoted to the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Why? You realize you posted a graph that support's Tasker's point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Satire is Dead, NYTimes Headline Edition New York Times World ✔ @nytimesworld Trillions Spent, but Crises Like Greece’s Persist http://nyti.ms/1g4iDPy 9:55 PM - 29 Jun 2015 “Trillions Spent, but Crises Like Greece’s Persist”? Go figure! . ADDED: David Burge @iowahawkblog Hangovers persist, despite chugging ouzo https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/615700067379474432 … 10:23 PM - 29 Jun 2015 Edited June 30, 2015 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 You realize you posted a graph that support's Tasker's point? Of course he doesn't. That would require him understanding the things he's commenting on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yeah, that's why it's bizarro world that Greece is playing hardball. Populism at it's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Populism at it's finest. No it's the Cleavon Little negotiating tactic of holding a gun to one's own head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 "The Sheriff is a Persian! The Sheriff is a Persian!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 They're talking 40% drop in currency if greece exits. Be a great time.to visit there! That's probably what they really need as a long term fix....lower currency, attractive tourism, maybe investment, effectively impose internal austerity measures. Obviously this propping up by Euro isn't fixing anything What they really need is to actually collect taxes, reign in public sector pay, slash existing entitlements, and then prosecute about every public official who held office over the last 20 years (at least) for massive corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) What they really need is to actually collect taxes, reign in public sector pay, slash existing entitlements, and then prosecute about every public official who held office over the last 20 years (at least) for massive corruption. There does seem.to be a pattern of southern Europe countries doing worse off. But greece is a a huge outlier even within that group. Agree either way theyre in for further hardship at least short term, seems they know this too and aren't as dedicated to staying in the euro as the other euro members are of keeping them. Merkel's omments like "Greek exit is the end if euro". They really want greece to stay but not because they think it's better fo greece. Beyond direct impact to euro, I think it's about power too....Germany etc having more economic influence and control throughout the region Edited June 30, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 There does seem.to be a pattern of southern Europe countries doing worse off. But greece is a a huge outlier even within that group. Agree either way theyre in for further hardship at least short term, seems they know this too and aren't as dedicated to staying in the euro as the other euro members are of keeping them. Merkel's omments like "Greek exit is the end if euro". They really want greece to stay but not because they think it's better fo greece. Beyond direct impact to euro, I think it's about power too....Germany etc having more economic influence and control throughout the region Which Merkel was that? This one? German Chancellor Angela Merkel dismissed a bid for aid by Greece hours before its bailout expires and a payment deadline to the International Monetary Fund passes. While Merkel rejected talks before a July 5 referendum called by Greek Premier Alexis Tsipras on further budget cuts, euro-area finance ministers signaled the deadlock may be thawing and, as capital controls bite, Greece may be wobbling. “We’ll negotiate about absolutely nothing before the planned referendum is held,” Merkel told reporters in Berlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Populism at it's finest. Absolutely. Let them sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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