Church Shooting

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

Read my other post. I go into great detail as to why the proclamations of the British and the American Congress did little to stop the trans Atlantic slave trade. Over a quarter of the total number of slaves came across the Atlantic after 1808. (edited to put the post here to save the trouble of having to go back, I thought this was still page 23)

 

Mmmmm...

 

Perhaps it would behoove you look into the recent research related to how much of that came through the North, and who profited

[Deranged Rhino]

Mmmmm...

 

Perhaps it would behoove you look into the recent research related to how much of that came through the North, and who profited

 

I'm well versed in this area, I promise. It's one of my two niches, I've written a lot about this topic (real writing, not the bs I do for a living). I'm under no delusions about who profited from the trade. I'm not saying it was as black and white as "South = evil, North = righteous".

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

I'm well versed in this area, I promise. It's one of my two niches, I've written a lot about this topic (real writing, not the bs I do for a living). I'm under no delusions about who profited from the trade. I'm not saying it was as black and white as "South = evil, North = righteous".

In 1838 a full 10% of Rhode Islands snap shot population was imported slaves, according to internal numbers produced by Brown University who largely funded the endeavors. The University has been coy in it's implications of others, both prominent wealthy families and other institutions, but has indicated that the guilt runs deep.

 

The North, as far as those in power stand, was no different than the South. The War was not fought over slavery.

[Deranged Rhino]

In 1838 a full 10% of Rhode Islands snap shot population was imported slaves, according to internal numbers produced by Brown University who largely funded the endeavors. The University has been coy in it's implications of others, both prominent wealthy families and other institutions, but has indicated that the guilt runs deep.

 

The North, as far as those in power stand, was no different than the South. The War was not fought over slavery.

 

We'll disagree forever about whether or not the war was fought over slavery. I respect your view, I do. But I think we can at least agree that if nothing else, the war effectively ended chattel slavery in the western world. That was the bottom line, undeniable historical result of the conflict.

Edited June 25, 2015 by GreggyT

[DC Tom]

 

For real?

 

Yeah, for real. One women-only, one Latino-only, and one LGBT project.

 

I was a bit surprised, to say the least.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Yeah, for real. One women-only, one Latino-only, and one LGBT project.

 

I was a bit surprised, to say the least.

 

That's insanity. I thought that was just network TV jobs.

[DC Tom]

Slavery was on the way out in the South, the economy was transitioning away. Most scholarly estimates conclude it's end in roughly a generation due to economic pressures.

 

Not just that, but many of the Southern slaveholders knew that (particularly in border states - no one in Virginia or Maryland could mistake the institution of slavery as thriving in Delaware, for example), and many put forth cogent arguments against abolition not on the basis of maintaining slavery as the "natural" order of things, but on the principle that emancipated uneducated slaves wouldn't be able to participate in the US economy or democratic process. And judging by the 80 years or so following emancipation, there's an argument to be made that they had a point.

 

And that's one of the problems with both the political climate at the time and the historiography of the period: it's defined strictly by the extremes. We're taught that the Dredd Scott decision was evil and reprehensible (when it was, in fact, a sound interpretation of the law - virtually the only valid interpretation) and John Brown was a hero (he was a terrorist in the purest definition). Or that Confederate soldiers fought for slavery (most wouldn't have been slave owners) while Union troops fought to free the slaves (though about two-thirds of the Union army nearly deserted after the Emancipation Proclamation, rather than fight for blacks). In truth, there was a vast middle ground of moderates that was overshadowed by the vocal minorities of New England abolitionists and South Carolina slave-holders, which is an imbalance that continues in the historiography to this day.

 

That's insanity. I thought that was just network TV jobs.

 

Made me want to start my own "white men only" charity. Except that, y'know...it's a blatant double-standard.

 

What's more distressing is the rising demands by minorities for "separate but equal" treatment - which is something I started to see in college. People that 60 years ago promoted cooperation and integration and pushed to do away with "separate but equal" have been supplanted by a generation that's eager to reverse all that.

[Rob's House]

Anyone notice how no one evokes "Godwin's law" when some brain dead !@#$tard compares the confederate flag to a fukking swastika?

 

 

It's interesting to me because anytime I see a legitimate comparison to Nazi Germany I can start counting the seconds until some mouth breathing moron misuses Godwin's law (it's misused almost as often as sour grapes is) but all of a sudden when a truly nonsensical comparison is being thrown around left and right those people seem to have disappeared. Perhaps that's because the people who are fond of misusing Godwin's law are fascists who don't like their ideology being accurately compared to Nazi Fascism.

[truth on hold]

This the horrifically bad mentality that's out there in this country. This politician's view is the victims share responsibility for their fate, because they weren't packing weapons in church. Parroting the NRA's position the answer to gun violence is more guns

 

S.C. lawmaker: Charleston victims 'waited their turn to be shot'

 

Columbia, South Carolina (CNN)A South Carolina lawmaker expressed regret Wednesday after seemingly questioning why the victims in the Charleston shooting didn't do more to defend themselves.

 

State Rep. Bill Chumley, a Republican who represents Spartanburg, told CNN on Tuesday that "We need to be focusing on the nine families that are left and see that this doesn't happen again. These people sat in there and waited their turn to be shot. That's sad that somebody in there with the means of self-defense could have stopped this."

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/23/politics/confederate-flag-south-carolina-debate-oppose/

Edited June 25, 2015 by JTSP

[Alaska Darin]

This the horrifically bad mentality that's out there in this country. This politician's view is the victims share responsibility for their fate, because they weren't packing weapons in church. Parroting the NRA's position the answer to gun violence is more guns

 

S.C. lawmaker: Charleston victims 'waited their turn to be shot'

 

Columbia, South Carolina (CNN)A South Carolina lawmaker expressed regret Wednesday after seemingly questioning why the victims in the Charleston shooting didn't do more to defend themselves.

 

State Rep. Bill Chumley, a Republican who represents Spartanburg, told CNN on Tuesday that "We need to be focusing on the nine families that are left and see that this doesn't happen again. These people sat in there and waited their turn to be shot. That's sad that somebody in there with the means of self-defense could have stopped this."

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/23/politics/confederate-flag-south-carolina-debate-oppose/

The "horrifically bad" idea in this country is that all evil can be stopped with a phone call to the police department. Chance favors the prepared.

 

It's sad the people go into churches, schools, etc and kill people who are easy targets. Given that the media continues to parade this scummers out to full fame all but ensures we're going to have repeat performances. You can choose to be a victim and a pacifist because it suits you but the lucid believe the the right to defend oneself in the manner of our choosing is as fundamental as any other right we have.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Say more words, if you have more.

 

Oh I have plenty. On this topic, you're a blithering idiot. By your logic, evil institutions should be allowed to continue because the idea of war is so odious as to be impractical. I can assure you that's foolishness. The Civil War was both just and necessary...and not just for ending the slave trade. Had the concept of secession been allowed to continue, it can't be certain HOW MANY "Americas" we'd have ended up with. UNFORTUNATELY, John Wilkes Booth ensured that the peace would be disastrous. But the idea that slavery would have organically stopped in any reasonable amount of time or that the racism behind it would have magically stopped itself over time is just foolishness. The war was necessary, just, and the means for victory outweighed any moral consequences. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a blatant revisionist, or living in a fantasy world.

Edited June 25, 2015 by joesixpack

[Gary M]

The "horrifically bad" idea in this country is that all evil can be stopped with a phone call to the police department. Chance favors the prepared.

 

It's sad the people go into churches, schools, etc and kill people who are easy targets. Given that the media continues to parade this scummers out to full fame all but ensures we're going to have repeat performances. You can choose to be a victim and a pacifist because it suits you but the lucid believe the the right to defend oneself in the manner of our choosing is as fundamental as any other right we have.

 

More than a right it is our responsibility.

[KD in CA]

Ok, things have officially gone too far:

 

http://www.epictimes.com/2015/06/general-lee-from-dukes-of-hazzard-will-lose-its-confederate-flag/

 

 

 

What's next, they're going to rename it the Harriet Tubman?

[TH3]

The "horrifically bad" idea in this country is that all evil can be stopped with a phone call to the police department. Chance favors the prepared.

 

It's sad the people go into churches, schools, etc and kill people who are easy targets. Given that the media continues to parade this scummers out to full fame all but ensures we're going to have repeat performances. You can choose to be a victim and a pacifist because it suits you but the lucid believe the the right to defend oneself in the manner of our choosing is as fundamental as any other right we have.

 

The USA has become a defeated place if one has to arm themselves to go about their daily business....

[FireChan]

 

The USA has become a defeated place if one has to arm themselves to go about their daily business....

Tell that to the criminals, that will make them stop.

[Gary M]

 

The USA has become a defeated place if one has to arm themselves to go about their daily business....

 

Please tell where in the world you can live that you would be safe from any and all evil?

[Dorkington]

The laws are only part of the problem (and one could argue they are a smaller part of the problem), the biggest problem is our culture.

 

Crumbling lower classes and social support systems, lack of blue collar jobs, public education struggles mightily in poor areas, the war on drugs, systemic racism, privatized prisons that have a vested interest in repeat offenders, so there's no real attempt at rehabilitation, extreme difficulty in getting work after being convicted of a crime, easy availability of guns legal or not, popular culture obsession with violence and guns, and so on

 

This is not some sort of easy problem.

 

It's my sincere belief that most crime is the result of desperation. There will always be "bad guys", sure, but I think a lot of people are born into bad situations, go from there. If we find a way to raise the lower classes up, if we can find a way to educate and rehabilitate, instead of profiting off criminals, and if we can find a way employ more people in the lower classes, a lot of crime would go away. But, all that is way easier said than done, and the path to those results is often times debated so much, that little is done.

[B-Man]

The Dignity of Charleston Flies in the Face of the Left’s Uninformed, Anti-South Bigotry

by Jonah Goldberg

Lots of folks expected us to do something strange and break out in a riot. Well, they just don’t know us,” the Reverend Norvel Goff told the packed, multiracial congregation of Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, S.C., on Sunday. It was the first service since the horrific slaughter of nine innocent souls by a racist fanatic.

Not being a Christian, I can only marvel at the dignity and courage of the victims’ relatives who forgave the shooter. If I could ever manage such a thing, it would probably take me decades. It took them little more than a day.

Less shocking, but almost as uplifting, was the conduct of the broader Charleston community, which has been unified and dignified, despite the expectations of some in the media — and the accused gunman, who had singled out Charleston because of its success at racial integration. And this points to Goff being right, not just about Charleston but about the South in general.

There are few subjects that ignite more casual, uninformed bigotry and condescension from elites in this nation than Dixie. “Practically the whole region has rejected nearly everything that’s good about this country and has become just one big nuclear waste site of choleric, and extremely racialized, resentment,” the Daily Beast’s Michael Tomasky wrote last year.

How then to explain the tens of thousands of South Carolinians, white and black, marching in unity across the Ravenel Bridge on Sunday night? Did the city bus in decent Northerners?

The Washington Post’s Sally Jenkins glibly asserts that “the Confederate battle flag is an American swastika, the relic of traitors and totalitarians, symbol of a brutal regime, not a republic.”

If it were left to me, I would take the flag down (for the reasons South Carolina governor Nikki Haley laid out Monday). But this kind of cheap moral preening is galling. Is it really too much for people to muster the moral imagination that the issue isn’t nearly as simple as that?

 

Blogger Glenn Reynolds noted that when the South was solidly Democratic, we got Gone With the Wind nostalgia. Now that it is profoundly less racist, but also less useful to Democrats, it’s the enemy of all that is decent and good.

{snip}

White Northern liberals explain how the South is an irredeemable cesspool of hate, while ignoring the fact that blacks are abandoning the Northern blue states in huge numbers to move to the South.

Demographer Joel Kotkin found that 13 of the 15 best cities in the country for African Americans to live in are now in the South. Over the last decade, millions of African Americans have been reversing the Great Migration of a century ago to live in Dixie. A big part of that story is economic, of course — the “blue state” model has failed generations of minorities — but it’s also cultural. Word has gotten out that while the flags may be around in some places, the Old Confederacy is gone.

Read more at: http://www.nationalr...t-condescension

.

[birdog1960]

Guns in America: For every criminal killed in self-defense, 34 innocent people die

 

http://www.washingto...ent-people-die/

 

The evil on a mass scale with regards to guns rests with those who support our wreckless gun laws out of selfishness, paranoia, and commercial agendas. They're so objectively wrong ignorance can no longer be used as an excuse

those 2 are certainly in abundant evidence here

[3rdnlng]

those 2 are certainly in abundant evidence here

Yet you are the one doing the drive-"bye" shooting.