BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 if the NFL truly wanted to enforce the game rules they need to start by suspending Bradycheatachick 1 game for every infraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It also bears repeating that parking tickets are usually used as a pretext to nail repeat offenders of other crimes. Why is anyone still responding to HoF Watkins? Take away the food source, people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Why is anyone still responding to HoF Watkins? Take away the food source, people... His post #2561 is an excellent response. It fairly characterizes the issue and the context. If you want to challenge him do so on the merits of his position. Attacking him personally instead of addressing his points indicates that his position is stronger than the prevailing views held by the majority of posters. His view very much conforms to my view. I find the tenor of the responses by the majority to be a reflection of jealousy by fans for a historically losing franchise. The solution is simple: Earn your own legacy by winning. Don't make excuses for why you lose and don't make excuses why others win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 His post #2561 is an excellent response. It fairly characterizes the issue and the context. If you want to challenge him do so on the merits of his position. Attacking him personally instead of addressing his points indicates that his position is stronger than the prevailing views held by the majority of posters. His view very much conforms to my view. I find the tenor of the responses by the majority to be a reflection of jealousy by fans for a historically losing franchise. The solution is simple: Earn your own legacy by winning. Don't make excuses for why you lose and don't make excuses why others win. Fair point -- I'll admit I stopped reading most of this thread days ago and just stopped in briefly. What I recall from last week, however, appeared to be a trainwreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Why is anyone still responding to HoF Watkins? Take away the food source, people... As long as he's around I'm not the most hated person here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 His post #2561 is an excellent response. It fairly characterizes the issue and the context. If you want to challenge him do so on the merits of his position. Attacking him personally instead of addressing his points indicates that his position is stronger than the prevailing views held by the majority of posters. His view very much conforms to my view. I find the tenor of the responses by the majority to be a reflection of jealousy by fans for a historically losing franchise. The solution is simple: Earn your own legacy by winning. Don't make excuses for why you lose and don't make excuses why others win. Not really. The post is the latest attempt to file this incident as a minor infraction that's the equivalent of a parking ticket. And if this was an isolated event for a franchise that's never had a taint of suspicion around its operations, this would be a non event as he and others have argued. But it's not, and it's not just sour grapes by jealous fans. Again, to me the entire Pats * football operation resembles a borderline criminal enterprise that always rides on the edge of legality. You can feel that there's something amiss about it, but you don't have conclusive proof. So to charge them with cheating without having conclusive proof certainly reeks of a jealousy in the first degree. Yet here they are, with another allegation of skirting the rules, no matter how minor. Surprise, surprise. We also got treated to a list of other teams' infractions over the years, and also unsurprising was the appearance of Belichick's proteges on that list. I think analogies to Nixon are appropriate. Pats* & Belichick are certainly good enough to win without resorting to underhand dealings. But I'm guessing the super insecurity that lives within Bill won't allow him to leave any stone unturned, legal, illegal, ethical or unethical. It's just the way the franchise works. I also think that character and competitive drive play a huge role, and this could be a perfect mix of super competitive but morally challenged individuals in Belichick, Brady & Kraft coming together in one place and at one time created the ideal breeding ground for this Patriots* dynasty. That's why the asterisk will always, always be there, no matter how many parking tickets and wins they accumulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Fair point -- I'll admit I stopped reading most of this thread days ago and just stopped in briefly. What I recall from last week, however, appeared to be a trainwreck. You are right though. The vast majority of his posts were 'stirring the pot' and lacking substance. Followed by him starting an incoherent (?drunk) thread about how he was 'barred' from the original thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Fair point -- I'll admit I stopped reading most of this thread days ago and just stopped in briefly. What I recall from last week, however, appeared to be a trainwreck. I appreciate your response. I understand the frenzied responses when the issue first came up. But now we are at a stage where no one knows for sure what happened or even if anything happened. Putting things in context what a lot of people fail to consider is that there is a range for PSI levels. Different teams (qbs) have different preferences. When all is said and done there is a good chance that the Pats were involved in a transgression. But odds are there is nothing unique about their possible behavior that doesn't fall within the norm of other teams' behavior. There is a backdrop story regarding this issue. It has to do with Goodell and how he grossly mishandled recent player behavior. Because he flubbed the prior cases he now feels compelled (understandably)to make sure that this issue is handled so carefully and with such great detail that a minor issue has been elevated to a major issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I heard on the radio this morning that the NFL has said they didn't keep any records of how deflated the balls were. That seems like it would be kind of important no? I can't imagine they can prove much of anything just saying "they were deflated to some point." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Not really. The post is the latest attempt to file this incident as a minor infraction that's the equivalent of a parking ticket. And if this was an isolated event for a franchise that's never had a taint of suspicion around its operations, this would be a non event as he and others have argued. But it's not, and it's not just sour grapes by jealous fans. Again, to me the entire Pats * football operation resembles a borderline criminal enterprise that always rides on the edge of legality. You can feel that there's something amiss about it, but you don't have conclusive proof. So to charge them with cheating without having conclusive proof certainly reeks of a jealousy in the first degree. Yet here they are, with another allegation of skirting the rules, no matter how minor. Surprise, surprise. We also got treated to a list of other teams' infractions over the years, and also unsurprising was the appearance of Belichick's proteges on that list. I think analogies to Nixon are appropriate. Pats* & Belichick are certainly good enough to win without resorting to underhand dealings. But I'm guessing the super insecurity that lives within Bill won't allow him to leave any stone unturned, legal, illegal, ethical or unethical. It's just the way the franchise works. I also think that character and competitive drive play a huge role, and this could be a perfect mix of super competitive but morally challenged individuals in Belichick, Brady & Kraft coming together in one place and at one time created the ideal breeding ground for this Patriots* dynasty. That's why the asterisk will always, always be there, no matter how many parking tickets and wins they accumulate. When the discussion refers to a criminal enterprise and a Nixonian reference then this issue and the responses it has stimulated have spiraled out of control. Without meaning to be rude you have clearly lost a sense of porportion on this issue. Again, I'm not trying to demean anyone but you need to step back and take a few deep breaths before allowing yourself to be upset over an issue that is not as significant as you are making it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 When the discussion refers to a criminal enterprise and a Nixonian reference then this issue and the responses it has stimulated have spiraled out of control. Without meaning to be rude you have clearly lost a sense of porportion on this issue. Again, I'm not trying to demean anyone but you need to step back and take a few deep breaths before allowing yourself to be upset over an issue that is not as significant as you are making it out to be. No, I'm trying to bring it back on point by saying that this is more about the Pats* franchise than the minutiae about how 11 balls can be deflated 2PSI in under 90 seconds. Just another notch in that belt. If this was only about the deflated balls, then it would be a non-event. After all, Watergate was a two bit burglary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 they have found the culprits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) ah I found that earlier but the link wouldn't work at that time LMAO Edited January 30, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I heard on the radio this morning that the NFL has said they didn't keep any records of how deflated the balls were. That seems like it would be kind of important no? I can't imagine they can prove much of anything just saying "they were deflated to some point." i had only seen confirmation that they didnt keep record of how high they started, nothing about not tracking how low they went. not sure if you mean they dont have record of the actual gap (would be the same thing, just different wording) or that they actually didnt record either end beyond "good" and "not good" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Yeah I only caught the tail end of the conversation so I wasn't sure exactly what they were implying. Man I hope the NFL didn't botch this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 As others have noted, it's not like the balls are numbered separately, so no real way to measure total deflation in a particular ball. What I suspect they did is measure them all pregame, found them all in compliance, and then again at halftime, when they found that 11 of 12 were in the 10.5 range while the Colts' balls were all still in compliance. Pretty straightforward issue even in such a case. I think this is another leak by pro-Pats* folks to cast doubt on the League, but if you look at it rationally it doesn't really matter that they didn't precisely measure each ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Not a crazy take- especially with the league seeming much stricter on kickers than qbs here Wouldn't having a record of exactly where each set started and finished help with the speculation of what happened and how? I'm not saying it gets them off the hook fully no matter what but it seems to give some room to wiggle around possibly which you would think the nfl would want to avoid It's more a question of that proves it to be a sting, which opens up a huge can of worms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) As others have noted, it's not like the balls are numbered separately, so no real way to measure total deflation in a particular ball. What I suspect they did is measure them all pregame, found them all in compliance, and then again at halftime, when they found that 11 of 12 were in the 10.5 range while the Colts' balls were all still in compliance. Pretty straightforward issue even in such a case. I think this is another leak by pro-Pats* folks to cast doubt on the League, but if you look at it rationally it doesn't really matter that they didn't precisely measure each ball. please stop making excuses ONLY the Putrids balls were soft. 11 (or12) of the 24 total on the field, The remaining 24 backup balls were OK. IF you know that shrinkage happens THEN you take steps to ensure you are within NFL regulations game time. Toiletgate isn't about PASSING yards, IT's about ball possession aka fumbling - see threads that show lowest turnovers since 2007 when Brady lobbied to take possession of teams balls Brady claims the balls get soft because Gronk spikes his balls. SINCE when does Gronk get to spike 11 of 12 balls in a half? Add up all the pieces of the puzzle and you get a stinking pile of chit Edited January 30, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Not to mention that they were probably all at 12.5 because The Devil said explicitly that the Patriots told the officials to inflate the balls to 12.5 before the game. Here is his quote from his press conference. He is explaining how the Patriots conducted their in house study. He explains that before the game they hand the balls to the refs and tell the refs to inflate the balls to 12.5 "When the footballs are delivered to the officials locker room, the officials were asked to inflate them to 12.5 PSI. What exactly they did, I dont know. But for the purposes of our study, thats what we did. We set them at 12.5. Thats at the discretion of the official, though. Regardless of what we ask for, its the officials discretion to put them where he wants. Again, thats done in a controlled climate. The footballs are prepared in our locker room, theyre delivered to the officials locker room, which is a controlled environment." Edited January 30, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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