Pick a QB, any QB...who in 2015?

[Big Gun]

Sancho had a 1:1 TD : Turnover ratio. He was worse than Foles. He took a 6-1 team and got them to 10-6. He's bad. Really bad.

 

In 9 games Sanchez had 15 TDs(1 rushing), 11 ints, and 3 lost fumbles.

In 8 games Foles had 13 TDs 10 ints and 3 lost fumbles.

 

Maybe i'm missing something but it doesn't appear that Sanchez was worse as you say.

 

Look, i'm not saying I want Sanchez on the Bills, i'm saying there wasn't a drop off if any from how Foles was performing to what Sanchez did this year. Maybe the Eagles agree with that and resign Sanchez and dangle Foles for trade, as they also have Matt Barkley waiting in the wings. If so, I hope Whaley jumps all over that. Wishful thinking.

Edited December 31, 2014 by old school

[FireChan]

 

 

In 9 games Sanchez had 15 TDs(1 rushing), 11 ints, and 3 lost fumbles.

In 8 games Foles had 13 TDs 10 ints and 3 lost fumbles.

 

Maybe i'm missing something but it doesn't appear that Sanchez was worse as you say.

 

Now you're just convincing me that I don't want either.

[Big Gun]

Now you're just convincing me that I don't want either.

 

Yeah, I hear ya, but Whaley has to do something.

[KOKBILLS]

That was the team and they still finished 10-6. Stats wise Sanchez performed ever so slightly better than did Foles this year.

 

Agreed...

 

I've always been a HUGE Sanchez-basher...I mean...I hated the guy...But I have to admit he impressed me this year...He went out, worked hard, and proved he's still a serviceable NFL QB...I'd still like to see him cut down on the INT's...Sometimes he just throws terrible passes that make you shake your head...But he did complete 64% of his passes in an Offense he just learned...The Bills could do worse than bringing him in to compete with EJ...

[1billsfan]

In 9 games Sanchez had 15 TDs(1 rushing), 11 ints, and 3 lost fumbles.

In 8 games Foles had 13 TDs 10 ints and 3 lost fumbles.

 

Maybe i'm missing something but it doesn't appear that Sanchez was worse as you say.

 

Look, i'm not saying I want Sanchez on the Bills, i'm saying there wasn't a drop off if any from how Foles was performing to what Sanchez did this year. Maybe the Eagles agree with that and resign Sanchez and dangle Foles for trade, as they also have Matt Barkley waiting in the wings. If so, I hope Whaley jumps all over that. Wishful thinking.

 

I decided to do a comparison exercise with Foles, Sanchez and Manuel using the numbers they produced in 2014. Since Manuel started only 4 games, I simply doubled the numbers to see where they would land in comparison to Foles and Sanchez's numbers:

 

Foles - 13 TDs, 311 attempts, 59.9 completion %, 10 interceptions, 270 yards per game, 11.6 yards per completion, 81.4 QB rating, 9 sacks

(8 games)

 

Sanchez- 15 TDs (14 passing/1 rushing), 309 attempts, 64.1 completion %, 11 interceptions, 268.7 yards per game, 12.2 yards per completion, 88.4 QB rating, 23 sacks

(9 games)

 

Manuel - 12 TDs (10 passing/2 rushing), 262 attempts, 58 completion %, 6 interceptions, 209.5 yards per game, 11 yards per completion, 80.3 QB rating, 12 sacks

(doubling stats of 4 games started)

 

 

 

Now, 2 of these guys have offensive genius Chip Kelly coaching and calling plays for them and 1 of these guys has Nate Hackett. Think Manuel would be just as good as Foles or Sanchez if he were an Eagle? I definitely do.

Edited December 31, 2014 by 1billsfan

[Big Gun]

I decided to do a comparison exercise with Foles, Sanchez and Manuel using the numbers they produced in 2014. Since Manuel started only 4 games, I simply doubled the numbers to see where they would land in comparison to Foles and Sanchez's numbers:

 

Foles - 13 TDs, 311 attempts, 59.9 completion %, 10 interceptions, 270 yards per game, 11.6 yards per completion, 81.4 QB rating, 9 sacks

(8 games)

 

Sanchez- 15 TDs (14 passing/1 rushing), 309 attempts, 64.1 completion %, 11 interceptions, 268.7 yards per game, 12.2 yards per completion, 88.4 QB rating, 23 sacks

(9 games)

 

Manuel - 12 TDs (10 passing/2 rushing), 262 attempts, 58 completion %, 6 interceptions, 209.5 yards per game, 11 yards per completion, 80.3 QB rating, 12 sacks

(doubling stats of 4 games started)

 

 

 

Now, 2 of these guys have offensive genius Chip Kelly coaching and calling plays for them and 1 of these guys has Nate Hackett. Think Manuel would be just as good as Foles or Sanchez if he were an Eagle? I definitely do.

 

Honestly, I think he would do worse because the up tempo Kelly runs requires extremely fast decision making pre snap and within 1 or 2 seconds of the snap.

[rumblefish]

no one on the present roster, and just about anyone but Cutler and Bradford

[1billsfan]

Honestly, I think he would do worse because the up tempo Kelly runs requires extremely fast decision making pre snap and within 1 or 2 seconds of the snap.

 

I think you're wrong there, EJ always seemed much better in the hurry up because it didn't allow him to overthink. IMO Kelly would know what to do with Manuel's skills and both Foles and Sanchez would be on the bench if Manuel was there at the start of the season.

 

Was it surprising to you how close those numbers were? Especially considering how by a large margin fans would rather have either of them instead of Manuel?

Edited December 31, 2014 by 1billsfan

[FireChan]

 

 

I think you're wrong there, EJ always seemed much better in the hurry up because it didn't allow him to overthink. IMO Kelly would know what to do with Manuel's skills and both Foles and Sanchez would be on the bench if Manuel was there at the start of the season.

 

Was it surprising to you how close those numbers were? Especially considering how by a large margin fans would rather have either of them instead of Manuel?

 

Those numbers were close because they were extrapolated, and they don't reflect reality.

[1billsfan]

Those numbers were close because they were extrapolated, and they don't reflect reality.

 

Ok, well here is the reality of the first four games...

 

Foles - 6 TDs, 57.8 completion %, 4 interceptions, 82 QB rating

(first 4 games)

 

Manuel - 6 TDs (5 pass / 1 rush), 58 completion %, 3 interceptions, 80.3 QB rating

(first 4 games)

 

 

So extrapolating Foles' numbers would have been a great indicator of his season after eight games. Are you arguing that Manuel is much more horrible regardless of the numbers? You do know that Manuel has the giant handicap of being coached by Hackett.

[Kelly the Dog]

Ok, well here is the reality of the first four games...

 

Foles - 6 TDs, 57.8 completion %, 4 interceptions, 82 QB rating

(first 4 games)

 

Manuel - 6 TDs (5 pass / 1 rush), 58 completion %, 3 interceptions, 80.3 QB rating

(first 4 games)

 

 

So extrapolating Foles' numbers would have been a great indicator of his season after eight games. Are you arguing that Manuel is much more horrible regardless of the numbers? You do know that Manuel has the giant handicap of being coached by Hackett.

Thank you. Plus EJ played against the Bears, Dolphins, Chargers and Texans defenses. Foles played against the Jags, Colts, Redskins and 49ers. Both had 2-2 home away. Who had the tougher opponent. It's not even close.

[FireChan]

Ok, well here is the reality of the first four games...

 

Foles - 6 TDs, 57.8 completion %, 4 interceptions, 82 QB rating

(first 4 games)

 

Manuel - 6 TDs (5 pass / 1 rush), 58 completion %, 3 interceptions, 80.3 QB rating

(first 4 games)

 

 

So extrapolating Foles' numbers would have been a great indicator of his season after eight games. Are you arguing that Manuel is much more horrible regardless of the numbers? You do know that Manuel has the giant handicap of being coached by Hackett.

 

Manuel was worse, yes.

 

Please make sure you insert total yards in there. Unless you think a 173 yard game and a 322 yard game are "equal."

 

Let's also get some number of attempts and number of completions in there, hmm? Maybe YPA? And completion percentage to WR's? You know, things besides the handful of stats that fit your argument.

Edited December 31, 2014 by FireChan

[reddogblitz]

He lost his job to Derek Carr. I'm not sure I'm interested.

 

Maybe because Carr was the hot new 1st round draft pick had something to do with it?

 

Other guys who have beaten out:

 

Kurt Warner beat out by Trent Green

Roger Staubach beat out by Craig Morton

Kurt Warner beat out by Matt Lienert

Doug Flutie beat out by Rob Johnson

Nick Foles beat out by Michael Vick

Tom Brady beat out by Drew Bledsoe

 

May or may not mean anything. Basing your opinion on QBs based on what Tony Sporano would do seems dubious at best IMHO.

[FireChan]

Maybe because Carr was the hot new 1st round draft pick had something to do with it?

 

Other guys who have beaten out:

 

Kurt Warner beat out by Trent Green

Roger Staubach beat out by Craig Morton

Kurt Warner beat out by Matt Lienert

Doug Flutie beat out by Rob Johnson

Nick Foles beat out by Michael Vick

Tom Brady beat out by Drew Bledsoe

 

May or may not mean anything. Basing your opinion on QBs based on what Tony Sporano would do seems dubious at best IMHO.

 

He was a second rounder.

[Tintonfallsbillsfan]

Locker

Glennon

ponder

 

there no good choices only hunches

[1billsfan]

Manuel was worse, yes.

 

Please make sure you insert total yards in there. Unless you think a 173 yard game and a 322 yard game are "equal."

 

Let's also get some number of attempts and number of completions in there, hmm? Maybe YPA? And completion percentage to WR's? You know, things besides the handful of stats that fit your argument.

 

YPA is equal and Foles had more yards per game because he threw it 15-20 times more than EJ per game. So what stat are you down to now? Completion percentage to WRs?...LOL

 

The numbers just don't back up your argument. These are real stats and we all know that Foles has the much better coach guiding him than does Manuel, that's not even close.

Edited December 31, 2014 by 1billsfan

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Aaron Rodgers

[FireChan]

YPA is equal and Foles had more yards per game because he threw it 15-20 times more than EJ per game. So what stat are you down to now? Completion percentage to WRs?...LOL

 

The numbers just don't back up your argument. These are real stats and we all know that Foles has the much better coach guiding him than does Manuel, that's not even close.

 

Well goodness, it's a good thing we'll never ask EJ to throw a lot.

 

And yes. Completion percentage to WR's is a very fundamental stat that can dictate which QB inflates his numbers more with check-downs. It's also a prime example of EJ's ineptitude. I believe EJ's was 37%. Or how about passes completed +20 yards down the field.

 

Your "real stats" will fool anyone without a basic understanding of how the QB position is played. Other than that, they are next to useless.

[reddogblitz]

He was a second rounder.

 

Good point. But the rest of my postis still valid. Picking a QB based on what Tony Sparano does?

[FireChan]

Good point. But the rest of my postis still valid. Picking a QB based on what Tony Sparano does?

 

Well that and the fact Houston traded him for peanuts. And that he sucked in Houston. But you're right. It wouldn't be the first time a bad QB decision was made.

[reddogblitz]

Well that and the fact Houston traded him for peanuts. And that he sucked in Houston. But you're right. It wouldn't be the first time a bad QB decision was made.

 

Yeah, those guys that make the Pro Bowl twice usually do suck.

 

He haD a run of bad luck and then Houston got a new coach so they moved on. He can still play IMHO. I'd give him a shot.

[FireChan]

 

 

Yeah, those guys that make the Pro Bowl twice usually do suck.

 

He haD a run of bad luck and then Houston got a new coach so they moved on. He can still play IMHO. I'd give him a shot.

 

Mike Vick? Vince Young? Cutty?

Edited December 31, 2014 by FireChan

[Kelly the Dog]

John Schneider and Pete Carroll, together, are responsible for the Seahawks roster. They started the same week in 2010. Schneider basically makes a list of players but Carroll has full control and final say over the roster. Carroll actually hired his GM.

 

Here are their QB transactions since they started together.

 

Traded for Charlie Whitehurst... then

 

1. Signed Mike Reilly

2. Signed JP Losman

3. Signed Zac Robinson

4. Signed Nate Davis

5. Signed Zac Lee

6. Signed Tarvaris Jackson

7. Signed Matt Flynn to 25m deal

8. Drafted signed Russell Wilson

9. Traded Tarvaris Jackson

10. Signed Josh Portis

11. Signed Brady Quinn

12. Signed Tarvaris Jackson

13. Signed BJ Daniels

Edited December 31, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[FireChan]

John Schneider and Pete Carroll, together, are responsible for the Seahawks roster. They started the same week in 2010. Schneider basically makes a list of players but Carroll has full control and final say over the roster. Carroll actually hired his GM.

 

Here are their QB transactions since they started together.

 

Traded for Charlie Whitehurst... then

 

1. Signed Mike Reilly

2. Signed JP Losman

3. Signed Zac Robinson

4. Signed Nate Davis

5. Signed Zac Lee

6. Signed Tarvaris Jackson

7. Signed Matt Flynn to 25m deal

8. Drafted signed Russell Wilson

9. Traded Tarvaris Jackson

10. Signed Josh Portis

11. Signed Brady Quinn

12. Signed Tarvaris Jackson

13. Signed BJ Daniels

 

Yes. This is the model I want to see. We have UDFA WR's and DB's coming through OBD every week, why can't we grab some more QB's for work outs?

[reddogblitz]

Yes. This is the model I want to see. We have UDFA WR's and DB's coming through OBD every week, why can't we grab some more QB's for work outs?

 

Since Doug Marrone arrived we have brought in the following QBs:

 

1. EJ Manuel

2. Kevin Kolb

3. Tarvaris Jackson (re signed)

4. Thaddeus Lewis

5. Matt Lienert

6. Dennis Dixon

7. Jeff Tuel

8. Jordon Palmer

9. Matt Flynn

10. Kyle Orton

 

 

8 FAs, 1draft pick, and 1trade in 2 years is not exactly sitting on their hands.

 

I saw BJ Daniels in PS with the Hawks. He looked really good.

[1billsfan]

Well goodness, it's a good thing we'll never ask EJ to throw a lot.

 

And yes. Completion percentage to WR's is a very fundamental stat that can dictate which QB inflates his numbers more with check-downs. It's also a prime example of EJ's ineptitude. I believe EJ's was 37%. Or how about passes completed +20 yards down the field.

 

Your "real stats" will fool anyone without a basic understanding of how the QB position is played. Other than that, they are next to useless.

 

Check-downs are on Hackett, not on Manuel. The Bills' OC drilled into the QBs heads that if the check down is there, take it because they never want to risk interceptions. It's on video dude. He was very adamant about that specific point.

 

Sorry, but you can't pin that stat on Manuel no matter how hard you may try.

 

 

I have no idea who will be the better QB down the road, however I do suspect that Manuel would beat out the lead foot Foles in Philly because Chip Kelly would know what to do with his athleticism.

[FireChan]

Check-downs are on Hackett, not on Manuel. The Bills' OC drilled into the QBs heads that if the check down is there, take it because they never want to risk interceptions. It's on video dude. He was very adamant about that specific point.

 

Sorry, but you can't pin that stat on Manuel no matter how hard you may try.

 

 

I have no idea who will be the better QB down the road, however I do suspect that Manuel would beat out the lead foot Foles in Philly because Chip Kelly would know what to do with his athleticism.

 

While I completely disagree with that, it doesn't matter. Whether he throws 50 checkdowns and 50 passes to WR's or 80 checkdowns and 20 passes to WR's, his completion percentage to WR's will remain the same.

[Cmmd Ackbar]

Here's a few opinions on the subject:

Definitely Available Options
Glennon – Young with potential, new regime made him obsolete, would like as a #2 option
Hoyer – Don’t think he has the skills to move this team forward, too much $$?
Locker – Injury, not very good, probably just stick with EJ
Butt Fumble – I could see this happening, but I cringe at it coming together
Schaub – Fitzpatrick/Trent 2.0
Matt Moore – Journeyman, did not do well with Carolina
Bo Levi Mitchell – An option, would be quite risky but I like the gumption of the move

Likely Available Options
Bradford – Injury Prone, they may stick with him next year, $$ issues
Cutler – Has just been a downward spiral as of late. Could benefit with a change of scenery
Manziel - Headache, Lack of Talent
RGIII or Cousins – I don’t think Cousins is talented enough, and RGIII is a bit of a headache

Unlikely Options
Kaepernick - $$ issues, finished worse than Bills this year
Eli Manning – No regime change so likely not moving, INT machine

Pipe-Dreams
Drew Brees – Old, team with terrible cap problems, still likely not going to move from Sean
Phillip Rivers – Old, cannot win in big games, unlikely to want to leave
Matt Ryan – New regime could want to start fresh,

Player I want:
Solomon Elimimian
Peter Man

[bobobonators]

I would take any serviceable veteran QB to compete with EJ at this point. There really aren't many options. Foles would be awesome. But if we trade for Foles, EJ is essentially done I'd imagine. Would Kelly want EJ? EJ for Foles?

 

We have to wait until we get a HC/OC (i assume NH is gone) before we can begin to talk about QB.

[voodoo poonani]

Brandon Doughty. He is the highest rated QB that may be available to us in the draft.

[Mark Vader]

My dream list:

Foles. With Chip Kelly getting more power with the team, and owner Jeffrey Lurie's recent comments about the QB situation, it would not surprise me if the Eagles decided to trade away Foles. If that's the case, the Bills should seriously try and get him. He's a true pocket passer and has good command of the Eagles offense. He would be the best option for us.

 

Cutler. His productivity has gone down, but he is still a good QB. Better than what we've had in recent years. A change of scenery could be what he needs, and it sounds like the Bears are willing to let him and his contract go.

 

Bradford. I'm still suspicious of him being a major talent in this league, and injuries are a concern. However, he's still a young QB, and if the Rams do not see him as the man, he would be an upgrade in talent for us.

 

Reality list.

Matt Moore. Looked good with the Dolphins, but struggled with the Panthers. A serviceable if unspectacular QB. Wouldn't mind seeing him get a shot.

 

Ryan Mallett. Biggest "?" out there. He's not an aging veteran, and he's got a great arm and is a definite pocket passer. Is he worth the risk?

 

Austin Davis. Another young guy available. Got thrown to the wolves with the Rams, but did his best and had some good moments. Is he a legitimate starter or just another experiment?

 

Jake Locker. Not overly impressed with him, but he started many games and a new team could do him some good. Worth a look.

 

That's about it. If the Bills are going to be successful, they will have to make some kind of trade to get a good QB. Otherwise they will have to take their chances with the unspectacular free agent class.

 

Unless of course, they think that Manuel is the man.

[bowery4]

Like the idea of a trade but only for Eli or Foles (and yeah then EJ is likely toast). I don't see either happening, so from the FAs either M. Moore and McCoy draft one in the 3rd or 4th all compete w/ EJ. Who is this years R. Wilson anyway?

[buffaloaggie]

At this point, draft a QB, bring in Bo Levi Mitchell, do whatever it takes. This past offseason was a complete waste as Marrone and Co. rested on their laurels with the great QB trio of Manuel, Lewis and Tuel, drafting and picking up no one else, until they saw how bad they were. We're not going to be sniffing the likes of Winston, Mariota and Hundley this year. Definitely do not overspend another draft pick in a trade, unless there's a sure thing available, which there is likely not.