Cash Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Actually if we HAVE to lose Schwartz, this may be the season to do it. Rex Ryan will certainly be available soon after the final game, and he at least would be a suitable substitute. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Schwartz to go but if he does ..... just sayin' IMO Rex has done way too much as a head coach to go back down to being a coordinator. Plus, if no one wants to hire him as a head coach this offseason, he can always do TV for a year or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I don't see Schwartz leaving because there are no teams that need his services. Many of the teams struggling this year are stout on defense and cannot put points on the board. Teams like Atlanta, Washington, Carolina, New York Jets, Tennessee and others do not have problems on D. They have problems on offense. They want an offensive minded coach. Pettine, Zimmer and Lovie Smith are good examples of putting a defensive head coach in a poor system and a team without an offensive identity. No one better shows this to be true then Mike Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 There is not one fanbase that would be excited to have Schwartz as a head coach. Not one. He will probably get a chance in the future but not yet. It's funny how people act like Pettine was a huge loss. Our defense, next to Seattle and SF, might be the most talented defense in the NFL. It's about as good of a coaching spot as there is in the league. If Schwartz left, it'd be a loss. but we could get another good DC in a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Lots of DCs will be available if Schwartz moves on somewhere. Rex Ryan Mike Smith Ron Rivera Mike Nolan Not to mention the Bills simply promoting Pepper Johnson to DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 There is little doubt in my mind that after the world saw what Schwartz did to Aaron Rodgers that he doesn't get a shot next year. Rodgers, who was the leading MVP candidate, and had only thrown three INT's all year, and those three were all tipped. Bills fans hate thinking about this, but imagine Marrone with another Dave Wannstedt type next year. To the fans thinking he sucked big time in Detroit, lets not forget he inherited a 0-16 team that was a tire fire, train wreck, dumpster fire all in one. Schwartz did get them to 10-6 in three years which was no easy task. Then went 4-12, and 7-9 to be fired. His replacement in Jim Caldwell did worse IMO, as he took a 14-2 team, and turned them into a 2-14 team. Yet there he is as the HC of the Lions at 10-4. I don't see Schwartz in Buffalo next year. Well, here's a case of when an omission of a certain fact helps paint an entirely different picture. You don't think not having arguably the best QB of all time had anything to do with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 There is not one fanbase that would be excited to have Schwartz as a head coach. Not one. He will probably get a chance in the future but not yet. It's funny how people act like Pettine was a huge loss. Our defense, next to Seattle and SF, might be the most talented defense in the NFL. It's about as good of a coaching spot as there is in the league. If Schwartz left, it'd be a loss. but we could get another good DC in a second. I disagree with you here. The Bears are historically a defense-first team, and they desperately need to hire a defense-minded head coach who preaches physicality. Schwartz knows the division, and actually had some success in it. Getting to 10-6 with the Lions may not sound like much, but it was historic achievement given the long legacy of failure preceding it. You don't think the Bears organization looks at the Bills-Pack game and thinks that maybe he might be the guy who can slow down Rodgers? They gave up nearly 50 points in the first half the last time they faced him, and that really stings. The Bears-Packers rivalry is far, far bigger than any rivalry the Bills might have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I don't see Schwartz leaving because there are no teams that need his services. Many of the teams struggling this year are stout on defense and cannot put points on the board. Teams like Atlanta, Washington, Carolina, New York Jets, Tennessee and others do not have problems on D. They have problems on offense. They want an offensive minded coach. Pettine, Zimmer and Lovie Smith are good examples of putting a defensive head coach in a poor system and a team without an offensive identity. No one better shows this to be true then Mike Smith. atl and tenn have two of the worst defense in the league, car is middle of the pack and you're right about the jets and dc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 atl and tenn have two of the worst defense in the league, car is middle of the pack and you're right about the jets and dc it's hardly their defenses that are losing their games. it is their offenses. and with the struggles of Pettine, Zimmer and Lovie Smith, among other defensive minded HC's recently I think GM's will look for offensive minded coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Teams like Atlanta, Washington, Carolina, New York Jets, Tennessee and others do not have problems on D. They have problems on offense. They want an offensive minded coach. Pettine, Zimmer and Lovie Smith are good examples of putting a defensive head coach in a poor system and a team without an offensive identity. No one better shows this to be true then Mike Smith. What?? You think Atlanta's problems are on the offensive side?? They have no pass rush and are 32nd in yards allowed. Atlanta is his most likely suitor in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 What?? You think Atlanta's problems are on the offensive side?? They have no pass rush and are 32nd in yards allowed. Atlanta is his most likely suitor in my opinion. Their OL is awful. Matt Ryan has numbers in garbage time. Their RB's are anything but consistent. In fact, I think they may try to go after Spiller if he enters FA. Atlanta has problems on D. But, for all of their talent on offense they are getting nothing done. Matt Ryan + Julio Jones + Roddy White + Harry Douglas + Devin Hester and they can't win? Matt Ryan may get over 4,500 yards this year. Jackson should top 800 on the ground. They need a lot more then defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Schwartz has a .36% winning percentage as a head coach. I would assume he stays unless a team is desperate (Browns with Pettine) and he's a fall back option. I hope he's got the "Norv Turner syndrome" where he'll always be a good coordinator but a terrible head coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Their OL is awful. Matt Ryan has numbers in garbage time. Their RB's are anything but consistent. In fact, I think they may try to go after Spiller if he enters FA. Atlanta has problems on D. But, for all of their talent on offense they are getting nothing done. Matt Ryan + Julio Jones + Roddy White + Harry Douglas + Devin Hester and they can't win? Matt Ryan may get over 4,500 yards this year. Jackson should top 800 on the ground. They need a lot more then defense. No they need some, ANY, defense. They are not giving their offense a chance. Look at those numbers... the offense is producing, despite what I agree is a poor o-line. They are 7th in total offense, and 10th in points scored. They are 32nd in total defense and 26th in points allowed. How can you not agree that defense is overwhelmingly their biggest issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Hahahaha. Here boys and girls we have an example of someone who decided before training camp that Schwartz would not be good and has stuck to that all season when the evidence has proved him wrong. To say that all Schwartz has done in Buffalo is not screw it up when it is clear to everyone who has actually been watching that he has made this defense better is ridiculous. This is the man who couldn't "see any way the Packers don't score 40". His take on Schwartz is worth zilch. For what it is worth I think FeartheLosing has nailed it above. The only thing I'd add is that I'm not arguing Schwartz will be a definite success as a second time HC... just that I find it increasingly difficult to believe he isn't going to get a 2nd shot sooner rather than later given who else is available with previous NFL HC experience. I did get burned on the "40" call, no doubt. The D is legit. I don't see how it would any worse under Pettine, however, which was clearly my point. I have no problem with Schwartz as DC, but I have been consistent in pointing out the obvious. He wasn't a good HC and woul dnot likely be in his next HC job. The next team tha twould hire him would be a lot more of a mess than the team he left in Detroit (which immediately perfromed better without him--in fact with JIM CALDWELL as his replacement!). For that reason, I don't feel my "take" on Schwartz is worth "zilch". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) I did get burned on the "40" call, no doubt. The D is legit. Hallelujah!! Only taken 15 weeks..... I don't see how it would any worse under Pettine, however, which was clearly my point. Well I look at our defense last year and I look at Cleveland's this year and to me it is obvious how. The gap discipline is poor and they get gashed with the run even in obvious run situations with 8 guys defending in the box. I liked Pettine... no doubt he did well, but Schwartz has made this a more complete defense and to argue otherwise is to argue that black is white. I have no problem with Schwartz as DC, but I have been consistent in pointing out the obvious. He wasn't a good HC and woul dnot likely be in his next HC job. The next team tha twould hire him would be a lot more of a mess than the team he left in Detroit (which immediately perfromed better without him--in fact with JIM CALDWELL as his replacement!). He is far from a sure thing as a Head Coach. But then for most of the season you have been telling us he isn't a particularly great coordinator. Edited December 17, 2014 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Schwartz has a .36% winning percentage as a head coach. I would assume he stays unless a team is desperate (Browns with Pettine) and he's a fall back option. I hope he's got the "Norv Turner syndrome" where he'll always be a good coordinator but a terrible head coach. The only problem with that hope is that Norv kept getting offered (and taking) HC jobs - meaning Schwartz would be on his way out again. (Bonus smart-ass comment: His win % is 36%, not .36%. He would have to lose over 8,000 straight games to get down to .36%. That's a VERY patient owner!) I think it's about 50/50 whether Schwartz stays or goes. He might feel like he's got so much talent on this D that they'll stay good enough to keep him in the HC conversation next year, so maybe he's more likely to turn down an unappealing job. But if an appealing HC job is offered, he'd be crazy not to take it. The idea of the lowly Bills losing DCs to head coaching jobs in 2 straight years is pretty crazy to me, but it really does seem possible. If it does happen, I have no idea whether they'd again look outside for another experienced DC, or stick with "continuity" and promote Donnie Henderson (I presume). I know Pepper Johnson is a popular name in this thread and others, but part of the reason he came here and switched to coaching D-line was to get more experience, since he'd only been a linebackers coach. I don't really think this 1 year of coaching D-line has gotten him the experience he needs to suddenly handle a whole defense. We all saw what happened with Raheem Morris, when a promising young position coach was given too much responsibility too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Schwartz has a .36% winning percentage as a head coach. I would assume he stays unless a team is desperate (Browns with Pettine) and he's a fall back option. I hope he's got the "Norv Turner syndrome" where he'll always be a good coordinator but a terrible head coach. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. He took over an 0-16 team, for chrissake. He went from 2-14 to 6-10 to 10-6 (playoffs) before suffering a setback in 2012 (4-12). He was 7-9 in his final season despite being 6th in offense and 16th in defense (they had a lot of close losses). They lost their final three games by scores of 18-16, 23-20, and 14-13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) The only problem with that hope is that Norv kept getting offered (and taking) HC jobs - meaning Schwartz would be on his way out again. (Bonus smart-ass comment: His win % is 36%, not .36%. He would have to lose over 8,000 straight games to get down to .36%. That's a VERY patient owner!) I think it's about 50/50 whether Schwartz stays or goes. He might feel like he's got so much talent on this D that they'll stay good enough to keep him in the HC conversation next year, so maybe he's more likely to turn down an unappealing job. But if an appealing HC job is offered, he'd be crazy not to take it. The idea of the lowly Bills losing DCs to head coaching jobs in 2 straight years is pretty crazy to me, but it really does seem possible. If it does happen, I have no idea whether they'd again look outside for another experienced DC, or stick with "continuity" and promote Donnie Henderson (I presume). I know Pepper Johnson is a popular name in this thread and others, but part of the reason he came here and switched to coaching D-line was to get more experience, since he'd only been a linebackers coach. I don't really think this 1 year of coaching D-line has gotten him the experience he needs to suddenly handle a whole defense. We all saw what happened with Raheem Morris, when a promising young position coach was given too much responsibility too soon. Yeah, no idea how the "." ended up in there. I never even saw it. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. He took over an 0-16 team, for chrissake. He went from 2-14 to 6-10 to 10-6 (playoffs) before suffering a setback in 2012 (4-12). He was 7-9 in his final season despite being 6th in offense and 16th in defense (they had a lot of close losses). They lost their final three games by scores of 18-16, 23-20, and 14-13. 36% is 36%. Nothing about what I wrote is "lies" whatsoever. Edited December 17, 2014 by Handsome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Well, here's a case of when an omission of a certain fact helps paint an entirely different picture. You don't think not having arguably the best QB of all time had anything to do with this? Well, look to the 2008 Patriots who lost Tom Brady in the first game of the season for the rest of the year, and that team went 11-5 with a QB who hadn't started a single game since high school. By that same token in 2010 Jim Schwartz in his second years as HC lost Stafford for the season after three games, and still managed 6-10. A 2-14 season means you don't have a good team in just about every aspect. The last time the Bills were 2-14 was in 84-85. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I would love for him to stay, but there is no way he doesn't get another shot at a HC job next year. After stopping PM and AR, this defense is being noticed big time and Schwartz is a big reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProcessAccepted Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 It's kind of funny last winter many here were ripping the Bills for signing Schwartz based on his record and failings as a HC. Somehow thta was going to also make him a failure as a DC Now based on his success as a DC everyone is talking about how he likely will be offered a HC job. Ha ha ha this is so true. He's far exceeded my expectations this year but you also have to look at the talent he has had to work with. When you see him on the sidelines he sure looks like he's having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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