Orton may not be great, but ...

[26CornerBlitz]

Then I don't understand why you are jumping on me for my post. All I was saying is that folks demand instant success with players during this extended drought. And if a player is an improvement but not enough to make us a playoff contender he is considered garbage to be thrown out. Am I wrong here?

 

Fitz was a reasonable if not flawed QB we wanted run out of town. We had to punish him for not being awesome. So he's gone and now we have Orton. Do we run him out of town too? Or do we maintain some stability at QB while we look for the next improvement, be it EJ, a FA, or a new draftee?

 

I wasn't being serious.

[ProcessAccepted]

People who are blind have eyes!

 

Priceless. LMAO!!!!

 

I think Orton is a bridge. A bridge to Manuel? Not sure. A few upgrades on the O-Line and keep the D intact we can be a playoff team, 10-6 type of team with Orton. Will have trouble beating teams with good D and great O. That is the first step, the playoffs. After that we have to win in the playoffs and Orton is not the QB to do that. So my question is who does he bridge to and how long will it be?

 

That's one really long bridge, and its got tolls, plus we've no idea where it's going.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

If (Kyle Orton/Anyone) is an average QB, and the rest of the team around him is above average to great, a TEAM can go a long way. The season is not over yet. But, if we lose Sunday, and the assessment of the season goes full force. I am not sure we will look back and feel we were above water in all areas of the team ( especially OL). And, that there was never adequate support of the QB, the skill guys or the OC. It would be interesting to see if we had better line play, especially earlier in the year, would we have made the playoffs? All areas of the team need to be under continuous improvement programs in the NFL. And, If the coaching staff offensively is not up to snuff that must be considered? However, some on here blame Marrone/Orton/Hackett for just about everything. IMHO there are areas of the team we thought were strengths coming in-and they were not ie Running game. There were areas we thought were weaknesses like Special teams-they are not. Better to focus on the whole team and try to make it better, not just blame everything on the QB and OC as being subpar. I say that IF the whole team and coaching staff had performed up to par-which is not the case. Then by all means, it is pretty obvious dump the offensive people; QB/Skill guys/OC etc. I think what people on this board get so frustrated about is, the QB isn't elite and capable of covering up other weaknesses. He is likely average and if the team/staff had done a better job we would be in the playoffs. Having said all that I hope we win out and make the playoffs....that would be-ass! Go Bills

Edited December 12, 2014 by 75Bills

[26CornerBlitz]

Priceless. LMAO!!!!

 

 

 

That's one really long bridge, and its got tolls, plus we've no idea where it's going.

 

Nowhere.

[Maddog69]

If (Kyle Orton/Anyone) is an average QB, and the rest of the team around him is above average to great, a TEAM can go a long way. The season is not over yet. But, if we lose Sunday, and the assessment of the season goes full force. I am not sure we will look back and feel we were above water in all areas of the team ( especially OL). And, that there was never adequate support of the QB, the skill guys or the OC. It would be interesting to see if we had better line play, especially earlier in the year, would we have made the playoffs? All areas of the team need to be under continuous improvement programs in the NFL. And, If the coaching staff offensively is not up to snuff that must be considered? However, some on here blame Marrone/Orton/Hackett for just about everything. IMHO there are areas of the team we thought were strengths coming in-and they were not ie Running game. There were areas we thought were weaknesses like Special teams-they are not. Better to focus on the whole team and try to make it better, not just blame everything on the QB and OC as being subpar. I say that IF the whole team and coaching staff had performed up to par-which is not the case. Then by all means, it is pretty obvious dump the offensive people; QB/Skill guys/OC etc. I think what people on this board get so frustrated about is, the QB isn't elite and capable of covering up other weaknesses. He is likely average and if the team/staff had done a better job we would be in the playoffs. Having said all that I hope we win out and make the playoffs....that would be-ass! Go Bills

I agree with your post for the most part. My argument has always been that EJ Manuel was blamed for all of the problems of the offense and EJ was benched in favor of Orton, who was supposed to provide "production at the position". In my opinion it should have been plainly obvious that Orton was not going to be good enough to make up for the other shortcomings you so eloquently described. The Bills put him in that position to provide false hope and to try to save Marrone's job rather than stick with developing EJ Manuel for the long term. Wouldn't the Bills organization (not specifically Marrone or Whalley) be better off if this season was used to develop young players towards the ultimate goal of building a championship team rather than the short term goal of trying to squeak out meaningless victories to ensure the employment of our current regime? I am a lifelong Bills fan and I am willing to wait another year or two for a playoff team if it means we can be a legit contender for a championship. I don't just want to be relevant. I want to be great.

 

[NickelCity]

Orton is absolutely good enough to take a team to the playoffs with a decent OLine, imo. Flame away.

[bigK14094]

Yep, we would not be at 7-6 without Orton. I don't see Manuel making that last second throw to Sammy in Detroit......in fact, I don't see Manuel making any long throws any time. Better arm is really the sort betlween, forget all that other stuff. Throwing accuracy is the #1 prerequsite for a pro QB, and Manuel fails on that. Strong arm, yes, accurate, not so much. (unfortunately)

I remember last year, when Thad Lewis played, I was taken by how much better his arm was than EJ's........almost a replay of the step up we got when Orton came in this year. And, Thad, regressed in Buffalo...and is now backup in Houston, I think.

[Maddog69]

Yep, we would not be at 7-6 without Orton. I don't see Manuel making that last second throw to Sammy in Detroit......in fact, I don't see Manuel making any long throws any time. Better arm is really the sort betlween, forget all that other stuff. Throwing accuracy is the #1 prerequsite for a pro QB, and Manuel fails on that. Strong arm, yes, accurate, not so much. (unfortunately)

I remember last year, when Thad Lewis played, I was taken by how much better his arm was than EJ's........almost a replay of the step up we got when Orton came in this year. And, Thad, regressed in Buffalo...and is now backup in Houston, I think.

It really is impossible to know. EJ was 2-2 this year. He has 4 4th qtr or OT game winning drives in 14 starts. He very well could have led that drive and may or may not have needed to in the first place. I don't see any reason to believe our record would be any different with EJ vs Orton. But even if I give Orton one extra win, is 8-8 that much better than 7-9 with a true answer as to whether EJ should continue with development or a new, young QB is needed?

[ProcessAccepted]

Orton is absolutely good enough to take a team to the playoffs with a decent OLine, imo. Flame away.

 

Too funny. I might have believed that you were serious but the absolutely good enough gave the sarcasm away...

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Orton is what he is. A stop gap till we find somebody better. What a shame to waste a defense like ours ,with this O. Good Qbs are really hard to find. Watching Big Ben ,here in Pa. . Makes me wonder ,what kind of team we would have with him. He also has a shitz line.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I agree with your post for the most part. My argument has always been that EJ Manuel was blamed for all of the problems of the offense and EJ was benched in favor of Orton, who was supposed to provide "production at the position". In my opinion it should have been plainly obvious that Orton was not going to be good enough to make up for the other shortcomings you so eloquently described. The Bills put him in that position to provide false hope and to try to save Marrone's job rather than stick with developing EJ Manuel for the long term. Wouldn't the Bills organization (not specifically Marrone or Whalley) be better off if this season was used to develop young players towards the ultimate goal of building a championship team rather than the short term goal of trying to squeak out meaningless victories to ensure the employment of our current regime? I am a lifelong Bills fan and I am willing to wait another year or two for a playoff team if it means we can be a legit contender for a championship. I don't just want to be relevant. I want to be great.

The NFL has become a league where patience is clearly lacking and perhaps nearly impossible to practice. I agree with you wanting to be relevant for an extended period. The organization clearly, and out of necessity only focuses on the short term. I wish more teams had the intestinal fortitude to look bigger picture. We both know how difficult that is given the new reality of information dispersion today creating job pressure. I almost wonder if being able to look big picture isn't a remnant of successful organizations now because they have a longer leash.

[Mickey]

Shakespeare on Buffalo's Quarterback problems:

 

"Who would these losses bear,

To B word and moan under a weary QB,

But that the dread of something after Orton,

The perils of free agency, from whose bourn

No Traveler returns, Puzzles the will,

And makes us rather bear the losers we have,

Than fly to others that we know not of.

Thus Conscience does make Cowards of us all,

And thus the Native hue of Resolution

Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of Thought,

And enterprises of great pitch and moment,

With this regard their Currents turn awry,

And lose the name of Action."

[C.Biscuit97]

Yep, we would not be at 7-6 without Orton. I don't see Manuel making that last second throw to Sammy in Detroit......in fact, I don't see Manuel making any long throws any time. Better arm is really the sort betlween, forget all that other stuff. Throwing accuracy is the #1 prerequsite for a pro QB, and Manuel fails on that. Strong arm, yes, accurate, not so much. (unfortunately)

I remember last year, when Thad Lewis played, I was taken by how much better his arm was than EJ's........almost a replay of the step up we got when Orton came in this year. And, Thad, regressed in Buffalo...and is now backup in Houston, I think.

 

Haha. We scored one td in the Detroit game. That pass was terrible to Sammy. We scored 1 td against Cle. We scored at least a td in every EJ start. We won against Miami when EJ started and lost when Orton started. QB play has not been the reason for many of our Ws.

 

 

And no ones wants Orton, Staton, or Hill starting. They are backup QBs. A lot of games, their teams win despite their qbs.

Edited December 13, 2014 by C.Biscuit97

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Haha. We scored one td in the Detroit game. That pass was terrible to Sammy. We scored 1 td against Cle. We scored at least a td in every EJ start. We won against Miami when EJ started and lost when Orton started. QB play has not been the reason for many of our Ws.

 

 

And no ones wants Orton, Staton, or Hill starting. They are backup QBs. A lot of games, their teams win despite their qbs.

Always so deep in your analysis! Orton Sucks, we should have stuck with Manuel. The world would be a better place. What a joke.

[Captain Hindsight]

Drew Stantons record is 6-3. He is currently leading the team with the best record in football in a division with the defending super bowl champs and everyones favorite coach. I'm supposed to feel better about our sucky QB play because two other teams, one of which is making the playoffs have bad QB's too? And both of them were backups at the start of the season. Shaun Hill was benched for Austin "I was a high school football coach last season" Davis earlier this year.

 

Yes Orton isn't Geno Smith. But he's also not even Andy Dalton.

 

After 15 years, I'm tired of rooting for mediocrity.

[JC2002]

Drew Stantons record is 6-3. He is currently leading the team with the best record in football in a division with the defending super bowl champs and everyones favorite coach. I'm supposed to feel better about our sucky QB play because two other teams, one of which is making the playoffs have bad QB's too? And both of them were backups at the start of the season. Shaun Hill was benched for Austin "I was a high school football coach last season" Davis earlier this year.

 

Yes Orton isn't Geno Smith. But he's also not even Andy Dalton.

 

After 15 years, I'm tired of rooting for mediocrity.

 

Of course hes not Andy Dalton because Dalton has 3-4 years into a system Orton has 9 weeks !!!

 

Dalton took over a team that averaged 20 ppg the season before he got there and after 3 season of Dalton they average 21 ppg .

 

The fact that Orton took over the team without camp and the running game which was considered the strength of the team has evaporated and yet we still average 21 ppg would not make Orton mediocre. Now what would it make it him I dont know if anything the situation gives him a incomplete.

[Maury Ballstein]

Ortonians making excuses. He sucks. Deeper analysis not really needed here.

 

It's pretty cut and dry.

[Captain Hindsight]

Of course hes not Andy Dalton because Dalton has 3-4 years into a system Orton has 9 weeks !!!

 

Dalton took over a team that averaged 20 ppg the season before he got there and after 3 season of Dalton they average 21 ppg .

 

The fact that Orton took over the team without camp and the running game which was considered the strength of the team has evaporated and yet we still average 21 ppg would not make Orton mediocre. Now what would it make it him I dont know if anything the situation gives him a incomplete.

Whose fault is that? Orton plays for himself. You know what i can't stand about this convo and people seem to be missing, Orton slides in a win or go home game. Stanton and Shaun Hill dive for the first down. Gotta have heart

 

Call me crazy but I want the dude thats going down swinging.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

Of course hes not Andy Dalton because Dalton has 3-4 years into a system Orton has 9 weeks !!!

 

Dalton took over a team that averaged 20 ppg the season before he got there and after 3 season of Dalton they average 21 ppg .

 

The fact that Orton took over the team without camp and the running game which was considered the strength of the team has evaporated and yet we still average 21 ppg would not make Orton mediocre. Now what would it make it him I dont know if anything the situation gives him a incomplete.

 

You are such an Orton apologist. He scored points against one terrible team. We average 17 in every other game he has started. That's below average.

 

And he's a 9th year player. Hackett's offense is not that complicated. Is he had a worse advantage that EJ was at as a rookie - missed half if training camp and a month of the season?

 

Orton just isn't a starter. It's been proven for 9 years.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

My god he's better than Drew Stanton and Shaun Hill--a lot better. Those guys are terrible! I'll be surprised if he doesn't opt out of his Bills contract given how horrible the backup qb situation is for so many competitive teams. He's at least average, and I suspect his performance this season may make him a fair chunk of money. Christ, he's performed better than any Jets QB in over half a decade.

 

An average player has value, and it's silly to engage in hyperbole about him "worst qb ever" blah blah. See Fitzpatrick, Ryan.

 

But an average player won't pull out the tough wins on a consistent basis for you.

 

I kind of don't understand the logic of this post. In a different thread, I quoted the Browns Gordon on Johnny Manziel and pointed out that you could substitue "Orton" for "A lot of guys" in a phrase about how "a lot of guys (QB) give up on the play". Should Orton be abused with exaggerated criticism, No.

 

Should we be happy because he's an average, respectable QB and lacks the winning drive needed to make that extra play and go that extra mile? Should we be happy because he's better than a backup QB to Carson Palmer who managed to beat a pathetic Rams team and eke out wins against underachieving KC and Detroit teams? Should we be happy because he's better than the guy who was the Rams 3rd string QB? What's exactly the point here?

 

Me, I don't really care if he's better than the Rams 3rd stringer or a career backup who didn't play significantly from 2010 to 2014 and has a career completion percentage of 55%. Orton should be better than those guys - that's why he was given a chance to start for 3 different teams.

 

The real question, seems to me, should be "is he good enough to get it done for us?" Things could change, but the answer seems to be "no"

 

Whose fault is that? Orton plays for himself. You know what i can't stand about this convo and people seem to be missing, Orton slides in a win or go home game. Stanton and Shaun Hill dive for the first down. Gotta have heart

 

Call me crazy but I want the dude thats going down swinging.

 

Yes. This.