dave mcbride Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) I agree with you and often say that a bomb that is intercepted is as good as a punt to stretch the field. But not on first down. That example he used was a first down play from the Denver 37. That was a crappy example, which is what I said. Disagree - you can't simply "save" the deep plays for 3rd down. Every down is available for the big play. Manning simply made a bad throw in single coverage, and the coverage was also decent. It happens. When you don't try and push the ball down the field and try to score TDs on 12 play drives (where something usually breaks down), you get FGs and punts. Just look at the Bills. Or the Jets. PS - I see that you edited your post! Edited December 10, 2014 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 One of the biggest issues we have on the offensive side of the ball is the lack of experience in the WR corps. Robert Woods is the senior member of the group and he has a grand total of 27 starts. Watkins has 13 and Hogan has 10. That's 50 starts between the three of them. Each of Denver's top three receivers have over 66 NFL games and Welker alone has 164. When you match that up with questionable interior line play, a QB who got no preseason practice time, a pretty inexperienced OC who is guilty of questionable play calling, you don't have an accepted recipe for long term success. It's one of the things that makes what's going on with Mike Williams even more maddening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Disagree - you can't simply "save" the deep plays for 3rd down. Every down is available for the big play. Manning simply made a bad throw in single coverage, and the coverage was also decent. It happens. When you don't try and push the ball down the field and try to score TDs on 12 play drives (where something usually breaks down), you get FGs and punts. Just look at the Bills. Or the Jets. I added to the point about bombs on first down. It was a fine call, just a bad example, IMO. I know what he is saying, and what you are saying, and I agree with both points. The play was fine. But when the ball was actually thrown, there were two guys who had two yards on their defenders and one guy who was blanketed and he threw to the blanketed guy and it was INT. That's not what the Bills should be doing either. If he's going to use an example of the other team, IMO, it should be a play that was a success to prove his point. We don't want Orton making bad decisions throwing it deep either. One of the biggest issues we have on the offensive side of the ball is the lack of experience in the WR corps. Robert Woods is the senior member of the group and he has a grand total of 27 starts. Watkins has 13 and Hogan has 10. That's 50 starts between the three of them. Each of Denver's top three receivers have over 66 NFL games and Welker alone has 164. When you match that up with questionable interior line play, a QB who got no preseason practice time, a pretty inexperienced OC who is guilty of questionable play calling, you don't have an accepted recipe for long term success. It's one of the things that makes what's going on with Mike Williams even more maddening. Yup. Other reason Williams should play. Another reason Hogan is often short on pass routes. They interviewed Jordy Nelson after the MNF game. He's a great receiver with a great QB and great coaching. But they asked him what made them so good and he said first, "Well, we've been together for seven years. We know what each other is going to do." Obviously you cannot just create seven years together for these guys but the point is obvious, and experience is huge for a WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 One of the biggest issues we have on the offensive side of the ball is the lack of experience in the WR corps. Robert Woods is the senior member of the group and he has a grand total of 27 starts. Watkins has 13 and Hogan has 10. That's 50 starts between the three of them. Each of Denver's top three receivers have over 66 NFL games and Welker alone has 164. ... Perhaps the most salient points in the thread. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Perhaps the most salient points in the thread. GO BILLS!!! Too bad we didn't have a guy with four years starting experience, we could have used him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 One of the biggest issues we have on the offensive side of the ball is the lack of experience in the WR corps. Robert Woods is the senior member of the group and he has a grand total of 27 starts. Watkins has 13 and Hogan has 10. That's 50 starts between the three of them. Each of Denver's top three receivers have over 66 NFL games and Welker alone has 164. When you match that up with questionable interior line play, a QB who got no preseason practice time, a pretty inexperienced OC who is guilty of questionable play calling, you don't have an accepted recipe for long term success. It's one of the things that makes what's going on with Mike Williams even more maddening. One of the major reasons I hated the SJ trade. Fans might not like him but he was beloved by his teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Too bad we didn't have a guy with four years starting experience, we could have used him. Who made that trade? I think SJ13 had a negative effect on EJ's development, and he really wasn't all that special, so him being gone doesn't bother me. Edited December 10, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Who made that trade? I think SJ13 had a negative effect on EJ's development, and he really wasn't all that special, so him being gone doesn't bother me. i think he was talking about the guy we just cut. but i could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 i think he was talking about the guy we just cut. but i could be wrong. Oh, the poster above me was talking about Stevie, I figured they were talking about the same guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Oh, the poster above me was talking about Stevie, I figured they were talking about the same guy. I was talking about Williams. I liked Stevie but he was always hurt and not a good fit with EJ. As soon as Sammy was drafted, Stevie became expendable. Whaley specifically had four different solid talents in Watkins, Williams, Woods and Goodwin that all did different things, were different players and complemented each other very well. It was the same thing the Steelers used to do, which was his model. It was the same thing he did with the RB, bringing in a stout short yardage guy in Boobie, and a slasher speed guy in Brown to join Fred and CJ. Then Marrone decided to scrap that WR idea. Edited December 10, 2014 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I was talking about Williams. I liked Stevie but he was always hurt and not a good fit with EJ. As soon as Sammy was drafted, Stevie became expendable. Whaley specifically had four different solid talents in Watkins, Williams, Woods and Goodwin that all did different things, were different players and complemented each other very well. It was the same thing the Steelers used to do, which was his model. It was the same thing he did with the RB, bringing in a stout short yardage guy in Boobie, and a slasher speed guy in Brown to join Fred and CJ. Then Marrone decided to scrap that WR idea. Agree on Stevie not being a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I was talking about Williams. I liked Stevie but he was always hurt and not a good fit with EJ. As soon as Sammy was drafted, Stevie became expendable. Whaley specifically had four different solid talents in Watkins, Williams, Woods and Goodwin that all did different things, were different players and complemented each other very well. It was the same thing the Steelers used to do, which was his model. It was the same thing he did with the RB, bringing in a stout short yardage guy in Boobie, and a slasher speed guy in Brown to join Fred and CJ. Then Marrone decided to scrap that WR idea. Judging from the game-to-game stats, it looks like Stevie is being phased out in SF: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnSt00.htm . Any idea what the thresholds are for the draft pick trade we made with SF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 So now Sullivan reports that both Watkins and Woods said the coaches' gameplan featured short dump offs in the first half, and they lament that the plan wasn't aggressive enough. Sounds like more evidence that it's the coaching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I just don't understand your logic. So they're going to draw up plays which isolate single coverage deep, and those receivers are turning, looking for the ball, but you're convinced the coaching staff is encouraging the QB to...ignore them? It's clear as day on the tape. He's got guys running free, as has been the case all year. At some point, your QB has to have the sack to get it done. This blaming the coaches **** for the QB's being a kitty, it makes no sense to me. None. Hackett makes my head hurt. I like the passing plays. I like the general theory of Hackett. But! !! The game management is putrid. Running when passing works passing when running works. And all this run up the middle crap. The only coach I HATE. Is Marrone. He is so smug. Like he watched Ditka in the 80s as a kid and was like i wanna be like that when I get older. Didnt work. Im not sure what he knows. Im not convinced hebis a decent coach or even that smart. He keeps throwing around the same cliches. Im not an NFL fan but I know people say chip kelly is innovative and knows how to use talent. How do we get one of those. We have EJ who is not a conventional QB and never will be. But to say he will never be any good is a stretch. You need to build a scheme around him.... or any qb that you think is gonna be your guy. Orton announcement had me thinking we signed a major player. The way theybtalked him up had me thinking I had no idea who Kyle orton really was. Marrone is so cute I could see him running Eli or Aaron Rodgers on read options. Because no one expects it "obviously". The more I think about it. Marrone is more in my personal dog house than Hackett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 So now Sullivan reports that both Watkins and Woods said the coaches' gameplan featured short dump offs in the first half, and they lament that the plan wasn't aggressive enough. Sounds like more evidence that it's the coaching... Well if Sullivan said it, it MUST be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I'm on record--in the thick of Orton's blazing debut--as questioning how sustainable his performances were. Me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 So now Sullivan reports that both Watkins and Woods said the coaches' gameplan featured short dump offs in the first half, and they lament that the plan wasn't aggressive enough. Sounds like more evidence that it's the coaching... Say hello to the scout team, boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Well if Sullivan said it, it MUST be true. i havent seen the quote but.... thats doesnt sound like an opinion or observation or speculation - thats relaying information from players it sounds like. Edited December 11, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 And when's the last time Sullivan got any sort of inside information from OBD? No one talks to him from OBD that's why he's so spiteful. thats, i suppose, assuming it was some inside secret quote being funneled to him. if someone cares to link (or better yet share the link, but quote the paragraph here) i would be curious to see. are you really implying the guy bold faced made up talking to 2 players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 thats, i suppose, assuming it was some inside secret quote being funneled to him. if someone cares to link (or better yet share the link, but quote the paragraph here) i would be curious to see. are you really implying the guy bold faced made up talking to 2 players? Sorry deleted that post as I've now read the article. http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/jerry-sullivan/staying-with-orton-means-marrone-has-little-faith-in-ej-20141210 He's mincing words quite a bit. And I think Coach T said "they" lamented the game plan, which Woods just said he wishes they were more aggressive, there was no quote from Sammy. So that's not entirely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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