The Wiz Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) That depends. Johnny is really far gone in terms of his psychological issues, but I think barring those, he would be a better NFL QB than EJ. Johnny ready to work, past his alcoholism and stuff > EJ. Johnny in rehab, not working < EJ. Well to tell you the truth, I actually wasn't far off on comparing Maziel to Taylor. (I'll give you Taylor had 2 more games than JF and JF only started 2 of those games but Taylor didn't start any games in 2013). GM - ATT - Comp - Comp% - ATT/Gm - Yrds - Avg - YPG - TD - TD% - INT - INT% - LNG - 20+ - 40+ - SCK - SckYd - Rate Taylor(2013 his only substantial playing time): 7 29 17 58.6 4.1 179 6.2 25.6 0 0.0 1 3.4 25 2 0 3 30 62.3 Manziel: 5 35 18 51.4 7.0 175 5.0 35.0 0 0.0 2 5.7 32 3 0 3 26 42.0 Edited April 3, 2015 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I knew Manziel would never make it in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) Well to tell you the truth, I actually wasn't far off on comparing Maziel to Taylor. (I'll give you Taylor had 2 more games than JF and JF only started 2 of those games but Taylor didn't start any games in 2013). GM - ATT - Comp - Comp% - ATT/Gm - Yrds - Avg - YPG - TD - TD% - INT - INT% - LNG - 20+ - 40+ - SCK - SckYd - Rate Taylor(2013 his only substantial playing time): 7 29 17 58.6 4.1 179 6.2 25.6 0 0.0 1 3.4 25 2 0 3 30 62.3 Manziel: 5 35 18 51.4 7.0 175 5.0 35.0 0 0.0 2 5.7 32 3 0 3 26 42.0 Eh, JF played his games while all messed up in the head. The stats are irrelevant in this case for me. Edited April 3, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 3, 2015 Author Share Posted April 3, 2015 He will be at SJF when the Browns come for joint TC this summer. Which Pittsford bar will be his hiding place from Kyle williams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I knew Manziel would never make it in the NFL. I always believed he was not an NFL Quarterback. I don't rule the kid out completely if he gets himself right. He might even have some highlights somewhere down the line that show flashes. But what I saw in his game time last season was exactly what I expected to see based on his film from college. A first read or scramble Quarterback who made poor decisions and threw wild reckless passes. I believed strongly that Mike Evans would show himself a genuine No.1 NFL receiver and he is well on the way to doing that. There were times when he simply made Johnny look good. In a National Football League where the defenses are more complex and the talent level is higher and the players are quicker and stronger I saw no way that his style could succeed. That view was further reinforced because I questioned how serious about it he is. He might turn that bit around but even if he does he has an awful long way to go. I said before last year's draft when many on here were arguing JF was a better NFL prospect than EJ Manuel that I thought they were wrong. I never argued who was a better college Quarterback that much is obvious.... but I felt and still feel EJ has the better shot of the 2 of making the NFL transition. I think I predicted at the time that Manziel might have a Vince Young style NFL career... some minor success but flamed out of the league in 5/6 years. At the moment even that looks optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I don't know if the kid can ever be an NFL QB (though I seriously doubt it). I do sincerely hope he gets his life together. Far more important stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Eh, JF played his games while all messed up in the head. The stats are irrelevant in this case for me.So basically he has no pro and at that rate college stats to go by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 So basically he has no pro and at that rate college stats to go by. He didn't go to rehab in college. Is it a stretch to assume his alcoholism got worse after being drafted and making millions? I don't think so. Besides, with his head messed up, he put up numbers like that in college, broke all of Newton's awards, got every award possible? I wonder what he could have done with his head on straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Given our boards opinion on every other call Carey's made, I wouldn't say it's great to agree with him. Though in this case I do. I feel like while the ball was moving forward, as the contact was made he pulled it back in, perpendicular to the motion. I could be wrong, but that was my gut. Wasn't JF himself quoted after the game as saying he had thought it was a fumble and was glad to hear the ruling was otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 Wasn't JF himself quoted after the game as saying he had thought it was a fumble and was glad to hear the ruling was otherwise? yes, he did say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) Well to tell you the truth, I actually wasn't far off on comparing Maziel to Taylor. (I'll give you Taylor had 2 more games than JF and JF only started 2 of those games but Taylor didn't start any games in 2013). GM - ATT - Comp - Comp% - ATT/Gm - Yrds - Avg - YPG - TD - TD% - INT - INT% - LNG - 20+ - 40+ - SCK - SckYd - Rate Taylor(2013 his only substantial playing time): 7 29 17 58.6 4.1 179 6.2 25.6 0 0.0 1 3.4 25 2 0 3 30 62.3 Manziel: 5 35 18 51.4 7.0 175 5.0 35.0 0 0.0 2 5.7 32 3 0 3 26 42.0 Well, here's the thing. To make sense of it, I think you need to look under the hood a bit. Taylor's only significant playing time was Game 16 of 2012. With the playoffs sewn up, he came in with about 3 minutes left in the 1st Q, led the team down field for a TD, then stayed in the game. His stats for that game: 15 of 25 for 149 yds, 0 TD, 1 INT; 9 rushes for 65 yds and 1 TD. He threw a pick-6, but was not helped by 5 offensive penalties, 3 for offensive holding and one (by his OG) for unsportsmanlike. And the D clearly took their foot off the Bengal's neck and let them sneak back. Manziel has had significant time in 3 games - Buffalo 4Q, in which we know he was gifted a fumble recovered for 6 (Johnny, meet Kyle) Then he was given two games to start, in the first of which he looked woefully underprepared despite throwing 10-18, 2 INT, and 5 rushing attempts for 13 yds; The 2nd looked equally unprepared, 3-8 for 32 yds before Kuechly knocked him out of the game. I would grant Manziel was kind of "thrown to the wolves" a bit as a rookie My point is just that the overall statistics are a bit misleading for how these guys have shown in actual games they played. Buffalo was Manziel's best game, where he was dumped in in the 4th Q. The two games where he prepared, he looked kinda shabby. The one game where Taylor didn't start, but was clearly planned to play for a large amount of the game, he did all right. Edited April 4, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Why are the Browns giving up on manziel? The only thing different about him now is that he went to rehab-- which is positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Why are the Browns giving up on manziel? The only thing different about him now is that he went to rehab-- which is positive. Now that the hype is gone, it's probably easier for them to see how bad of a QB he actually is. Hobbits are great at overcoming the odds and destroying rings in mountains of lava, quarterbacking not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 4, 2015 Author Share Posted April 4, 2015 Now that the hype is gone, it's probably easier for them to see how bad of a QB he actually is. Hobbits are great at overcoming the odds and destroying rings in mountains of lava, quarterbacking not so much.but but he lit up Nicky Saban! Oh wait so did Bo Wallace and Cardale Jones. He's not so unique anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Now that the hype is gone, it's probably easier for them to see how bad of a QB he actually is. Hobbits are great at overcoming the odds and destroying rings in mountains of lava, quarterbacking not so much. but they were all in on this guy late last year too. the timing of this "90 percent decision" is weird. why not not make any decision now and see how he is after rehab and let him compete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 but they were all in on this guy late last year too. the timing of this "90 percent decision" is weird. why not not make any decision now and see how he is after rehab and let him compete? I agree it's weird. They could be hoping to use him as trade bait or he could just be that awful of a distraction that they would rather just cut bait. I do wonder if they were trying to trade him for a draft pick, what they would accept. 5th? but but he lit up Nicky Saban! Oh wait so did Bo Wallace and Cardale Jones. He's not so unique anymore. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Ok. Well I made an overstatement there but if you prefer you're more than welcome. It is the internet after all. Also, just because I want to know, would you take EJ or Maziel at this point? you do know that to Chan - any QB is better than EJ but I suppose you are fishing for an answer to what bounds he will go to to humor the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) you do know that to Chan - any QB is better than EJ but I suppose you are fishing for an answer to what bounds he will go to to humor the board. Yes and no. I know he doesn't like ej or doesn't think he will be a good qb but expecting manziel to get over himself when he has had these issues even before he made it to the NFL is less likely IMO. Really just striking up a conversation. I would grant Manziel was kind of "thrown to the wolves" a bit as a rookie My point is just that the overall statistics are a bit misleading for how these guys have shown in actual games they played. Buffalo was Manziel's best game, where he was dumped in in the 4th Q. The two games where he prepared, he looked kinda shabby. The one game where Taylor didn't start, but was clearly planned to play for a large amount of the game, he did all right. So would tuel be a better comparison. Thrown into the browns game and started the kc game. Edited April 4, 2015 by The Wiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 You know, I may be crazy but I'm not convinced we've seen the last of Manziel. If he pulls his off-field life together and focuses on football, he may be able to make something of his career. Yes he's not the most physically gifted QB but watching him in college it became clear to me that he has uncanny football instincts. He made some truly unbelievable plays, often in clutch situations, and while some are calling him a one-read player what I saw was quite different. He is a playground baller for sure - but (in college at least) he knew where is receivers were and he knew how to manipulate defenders with his legs until someone came open. I saw a lot of Doug Flutie and some Jeff Garcia, when he was playing at his best. It wasn't just Saban's defense that he embarrassed - he carved up a lot of good SEC defenses during his A&M days. Again, it will all depend on whether he stops being a knucklehead and devotes himself to the craft. But if he does, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Manziel becomes a playmaker at the pro level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 (edited) Yes and no. I know he doesn't like ej or doesn't think he will be a good qb but expecting manziel to get over himself when he has had these issues even before he made it to the NFL is less likely IMO. Really just striking up a conversation. understood. barring talent from the conversation When you bring in a runaway train, you have to expect a train wreck Edited April 4, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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