Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 you can forget what he did 8 yrs ago Here and NOW he's a turnover machine. Orton's TD to INT ration is 1:1 For very good QB's that turnover ration should be something like 4-1 Actually his TD to INT ratio is 5:3. TD to turnover ratio is 5:5 I wouldn't call him a "turnover machine". On the other hand, I'm going to reserve calling his play "great" or even "very good" until he does what a vet is supposed to, and takes a bit better care of the ball. He shakes it off and keeps playing hard, I'll give him that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 By the way, Since Orton has taken over the Bills have been throwing the ball down field much more. This is backed up by the Air Yards stats. I looked it up and I forget the exact breakdown, but Manuel was getting 67% of his yards after the catch, and Orton is more in the range of getting 67% of his yards through the air! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Yes he is. He is a pocket passer which makes him a target for strips and strip sacks especially when the Oline blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 The point is he has done a good job protecting the ball in his career. He's Above Average. And we should expect to see him do a better job the rest of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I am getting to the point where I expect Orton to throw a pick a game....the thing is he also backs that up with SEVERAL excellent throws per game. The more we pass...the more picks we are gonna have. He is a gunslinger I got to agree with this. he reminds me of Brett Farve in this manner. People romanticize Farve, but honestly this is exactly what he would do. IF Orton can have games like Detroit and Minnie where he atones for his Int's with great drives that win games...who cares! And no i do not think Orton is anywhere near as good as Farve! He has the same mentality with not as much talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Dude, he has no pass protection. Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers would be turning the ball over if they were behind that line.. Some day I hope the super awesome guy who would suck behind this other teams crappy line is the bills qb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) Orton has handled the ball through passes, sacks or runs 2,647 times in his career. On 7% of the plays he either has a fumble or an interception. This is good for 17th place out of 62 eligible QBs-(500 plays to be eligible). EJ has handled the ball 540 times with an 8% turnover rate. Lower is better-obviously. As for sample size, people shouldn't look at 2-3 games worth of data and give it more weight than someone who has handled the ball over 2600 times. Actually....in football, you do rather need to give more weight to the "here and now". Take Matt Schaub for example. From 2008 to 2012, his TD to INT ratio was very respectable. Overall, his career TD to INT ratio is respectable - 130 TD to 84 INTs, But one can't ignore that for whatever reason, last year Schaub threw 14 INTs to 10 TDs, and a distressing number of those INTs were pick-six. And what he did from 2008 to 2012 didn't help them too much, now, did it? Or Kurt Warner in 2002 with St Louis. Previously, two Superbowl appearances, way more TD than INTs. 2002: blammo. 3 TD, 11 INTs. 1999 through 2001 didn't help them much in 2002, eh? Same thing here. Historically, Orton is not a "turnover machine". But he's turning it over more than he should right now. This isn't to "tar and feather" him, he's doing OK. But it isn't exactly a "myth" either, when a QB is generating as many turnovers as he is TDs. It's more like "Fact, Jack". Edited October 20, 2014 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Arby's has a turnover machine. It makes cherry and apple turnovers. Orton does turn the ball over fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 It really bothers me that I can't say I'm worried about KO. He is the better QB and the majority of posters believe that and are saying that. Having doubts about a journeyman QB after watching a few great games from not great QBs the past 14 years does not make one a hater. But thats JMO. Turnovers concern me, taking sacks concerns me. Is it rust? Learning the O? Or is this a habit that could become a big problem? These are legitimate questions and concerns IMO. I hope he becomes a playoff QB for us, I really do. But I can't deny I have some doubts he can do this for an entire year. I hope he proves me wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 It really bothers me that I can't say I'm worried about KO. He is the better QB and the majority of posters believe that and are saying that. Having doubts about a journeyman QB after watching a few great games from not great QBs the past 14 years does not make one a hater. But thats JMO. Turnovers concern me, taking sacks concerns me. Is it rust? Learning the O? Or is this a habit that could become a big problem? These are legitimate questions and concerns IMO. I hope he becomes a playoff QB for us, I really do. But I can't deny I have some doubts he can do this for an entire year. I hope he proves me wrong I don't think anything is wrong with being worried. He's as athletic as my Grandmother. What's wrong is making it seem like he's the offenses problem when he's not. The Oline, running game and coaching have been atrocious and they are the culprits. Someone said on another thread that KO has played bad enough to be 0-3. That's not concern, that's crazy talk. I don't think anybody is looking at KO as the savior or the future. But not realizing that he joined the team on August 30th and didn't get first team reps till 3 weeks ago should cut him a little more slack especially considering the vast improvement in the passing game and 2-1 record. So doubt away but consider some context before calling him a turnover machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 do you mean to the check down receiver ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 Okay Jack. You're right. In the NFL this year QBS have handled the ball 8316 times and have 264 turonvers. Orton has 5 turnovers in 139 handles. You know what he is a league average turnover machine. Do the math if you can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 The Putz also have problems on the OLine until they faced the Bills. Yet - Tom Terrific has a TD to INT ratio of ... 13 - 2 add to that 5 fumbles So 13 : 7 is his TD to TO ratio, which isn't even 2 : 1. He must not be very good, according to your own post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjjr Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I'm happy they're 4-3 at this point of the season and got the win yesterday. A win is a win....but they almost handed it over to a team in total disarray with a rookie QB making his 1st start on the road. The fact is, the Bills have won 2 games with Orton and lost 1 yes but both wins came on the last play of the game after playing an otherwise very poor offensive game. They've lost the TO battle in 2 of the 3 games (totally non Marrone football) and teams have gotten 23 pts from those turnovers. The offense has no identity now.... If they can keep winning this way then great, but I was totally frustrated up until 4th and 22 yesterday. I wouldn't say people who "hate" on Orton and want EJ in aren't fans. In my case, I do think he gives them a better chance to win with this team. The real disappointment though is after 15 yrs of being awful, I finally believed this franchise had figured it out with a long term solution at QB to grow with this young, talented team they've been building since 2010. By signing Orton and then pulling the plug on EJ after just 14 starts, they threw that hope in the garbage. If EJ makes it now, it's on him. Either way, hope they keep winning now.... Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boolay Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 EJ has looked absolutely lost. Orton looks like a professional QB. You would have to have blinkers on NOT to see that EJ had lost the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Orton has handled the ball through passes, sacks or runs 2,647 times in his career. On 7% of the plays he either has a fumble or an interception. This is good for 17th place out of 62 eligible QBs-(500 plays to be eligible). EJ has handled the ball 540 times with an 8% turnover rate. Lower is better-obviously. As for sample size, people shouldn't look at 2-3 games worth of data and give it more weight than someone who has handled the ball over 2600 times. That is moronic! Are you calling Mark Twain "moronic"? Come on man, that is one of the greatest axioms of all-time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 Are you calling Mark Twain "moronic"? Come on man, that is one of the greatest axioms of all-time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 EJ has looked absolutely lost. Orton looks like a professional QB. You would have to have blinkers on NOT to see that EJ had lost the team. I hate when people say this. We can be critical of Orton and still think EJ wasn't ready or wasn't getting it done. The two feelings don't have to be mutually exclusive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I hate when people say this. We can be critical of Orton and still think EJ wasn't ready or wasn't getting it done. The two feelings don't have to be mutually exclusive No way bro. Some of us have to bash ej 5 times a day to stay regular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 With his offensive line basically collapsing on nearly every passing down, he should be given credit for not having had more fumbles and interceptions yesterday. You don't have to love him but "the haters" should give credit where it's due. Does anyone else question why our two rookie linemen, who've now been starting more than a game or two, don't appear to be improving very much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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