All_Pro_Bills Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Not sure if this was discussed but this was in USA Today. Did official give NE some help in avoiding a penalty call on the Jets final FG attempt? I don't recall the Bills ever getting 'tips' from the ref's to avoid a potential call like illegal formation. http://ftw.usatoday....ew-england-york Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 @DeanBlandino Player safety rule and Umpire will remind players to stay off the center before snap. Will discuss on NFLAM this morning. Blandino: Ref tapping Hightower to avoid penalty 'not unusual' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I see this happen all the time. The ref will walk up and smack the player on the butt telling him to move. Non issue. Fun fact NE is the most penalized team in the league this year..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 can we please stop with everything is 'help from the zebras'. Get over it. Penalties are called, rules are enforced. Sometimes correctly, sometimes they get it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 can we please stop with everything is 'help from the zebras'. Get over it. Penalties are called, rules are enforced. Sometimes correctly, sometimes they get it wrong. agree. RossTucker this morning said same thing, happens all the time. Gave example of WR checking with ref for onside, alignment etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Then why does the penalty get called if the refs is suppose to be move the player. The pats may be the most penalized team but they never come at critical times. Like when Brady should have got called for intentional grounding on the final drive. But they get a holding calling in the 2nd quarter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Then why does the penalty get called if the refs is suppose to be move the player. This. Someone please explain? How does anyone ever get called for lining up over center? Edited October 17, 2014 by TheBillsWillRiseAgain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 This. Someone please explain? How does anyone ever get called for lining up over center? When was the last time you saw this penalty called? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 When was the last time you saw this penalty called? This year. And yes, I will find it. I'm looking now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ko12010 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I see this happen all the time. The ref will walk up and smack the player on the butt telling him to move. Non issue. Fun fact NE is the most penalized team in the league this year..... Keep believing this is the important aspect of this issue, not timing and type of penalty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I see this happen all the time. The ref will walk up and smack the player on the butt telling him to move. Non issue. Fun fact NE is the most penalized team in the league this year..... I would not be surprised if the majority of those were minor false start penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) When was the last time you saw this penalty called? Bam. Last week Colts vs. Texans. The Texans began to mount a comeback in the second quarter, however, as a stupid penalty by Zach Kerr on a Texans field goal try (illegal formation for lining up over the center) led to an insane Andre Johnson touchdown catch, then Luck was picked and a few plays later Arian Foster ran for a score to make it 24-14 Colts. http://www.stampedeblue.com/2014/10/9/6955243/colts-vs-texans-second-half-open-thread I would not be surprised if the majority of those were minor false start penalties. 33 out of the 63 penalties the Patriots have this season are only 5-yard penalties. Edited October 17, 2014 by TheBillsWillRiseAgain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Two components are needed for this play to be called a penalty. The defender must be over the long snapper AND he must be within 1 yard of the LOS. While it is true that Hightower was over the LS (until the ref corrected him) it is also true that Hightower was beyond the 1 yard mark and so was legally lined-up. Not only was this not a penalty but the ref should not have re-positioned Hightower out of his perfectly legal placement. The rule in question: Rule 9, Section 1, Article 3(a): Defensive Team Formation on Scrimmage Kicks: When Team A presents a punt, field-goal, or Try Kick formation, a Team B player, who is within one yard of the line of scrimmage, must have his entire body outside the snapper's shoulder pads at the snap. Here's picture which clearly shows Hightower beyond the 1 yard from LOS mark. Edited October 17, 2014 by Pneumonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I see this happen all the time. The ref will walk up and smack the player on the butt telling him to move. Non issue. Fun fact NE is the most penalized team in the league this year..... But, like all real evidence points to in the conspiracies is that when it is not called. When penalties are not called. Revis' PI late in the game, the chopping blows Geno Smith was getting all night, the whipped to the ground he was getting as players would continue to roll in to his legs, the launching tackles at receivers heads, etc. They failed to call several penalties on the Pats when they were blatantly obvious and would have changed the game. When was the last time you saw this penalty called? It was called against Miami, iirc, in our matchup. It gets called weekly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Two components are needed for this play to be called a penalty. The defender must be over the long snapper AND he must be within 1 yard of the LOS. While it is true that Hightower was over the LS (until the ref corrected him) it is also true that Hightower was beyond the 1 yard mark and so was legally lined-up. Not only was this not a penalty but the ref should not have re-positioned Hightower out of his perfectly legal placement. The rule in question: Bull. Hightower is clearly walking right up to the LOS and stopped by the ref grabbing him. Watch it again: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153326026808009&set=vb.618438008&type=2&theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Bull. Hightower is clearly walking right up to the LOS and stopped by the ref grabbing him. Watch it again: https://www.facebook...&type=2 And Hightower knew they were going to shift, he would have been dead over the center. Refs suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Bull. Hightower is clearly walking right up to the LOS and stopped by the ref grabbing him. Watch it again: https://www.facebook...&type=2 In the picture above, it is clear that the ref is touching him 2 yards from the LOS .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) It's obvious he was walking forward until the ref grabbed him. If the ref wouldn't have grabbed him he would have kept walking forward. Edited October 17, 2014 by TheBillsWillRiseAgain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) It's obvious he was walking forward until the ref grabbed him. If the ref wouldn't have grabbed him he would have kept walking forward. The reffing is bad enough as it it. Surely, you don't want refs determining player intent before a play even happens. Not that this part really matters as the league admitted it is common practice for refs to re-direct players on such plays. Edited October 17, 2014 by Pneumonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 If it's such common practice then why has that penalty been called on other teams this season? I'm sick of people constantly making excuses for the Patriots always getting favorable and questionable calls their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 If it's such common practice then why has that penalty been called on other teams this season? I'm sick of people constantly making excuses for the Patriots always getting favorable and questionable calls their way. So the Bills lost because of the refs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 If it's such common practice then why has that penalty been called on other teams this season? I'm sick of people constantly making excuses for the Patriots always getting favorable and questionable calls their way. You'll have to ask the league that I suppose. What is odd is the extent some people go too to use ref favoritism to justify why the Pats constantly win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 You'll have to ask the league that I suppose. What is odd is the extent some people go too to use ref favoritism to justify why the Pats constantly win. It is because they are in the division. I see no one complaining about the Seahawks "getting calls" or the Broncos "getting calls" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) can we please stop with everything is 'help from the zebras'. Get over it. Penalties are called, rules are enforced. Sometimes correctly, sometimes they get it wrong. I see what you are saying, but given the magnitude and lack of consistency that coexist with the rules, maybe they need a change. Too many huge calls and then non-calls are affecting the quality of the product. Consider pass interference. The supposition is the guy gets the ball where the PI happened because he would have otherwise caught it. But there should really only a be 60% chance it would have been completed extrapolating NFL stats. Meaning there is a lot of benefit of the doubt favoring the offense. I don't necessarily have a solution, but this is the type of point on which board brings great ideas or suggestions. How could PI rules be better? Edited October 17, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 agree. RossTucker this morning said same thing, happens all the time. Gave example of WR checking with ref for onside, alignment etc. I am sorry, but a WR checking in with a ref on alignment and an official proactively alerting a player of an illegal formation prior to the snap on the most crucial play of a game are two completely different scenarios. If you are unwilling to accept that the Pats* receive preferential treatment from the officials! you don't watch enough of their games. The pendulum swings their way more often than not on critical calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 The reffing is bad enough as it it. Surely, you don't want refs determining player intent before a play even happens. Not that this part really matters as the league admitted it is common practice for refs to re-direct players on such plays. So the Bills lost because of the refs? You'll have to ask the league that I suppose. What is odd is the extent some people go too to use ref favoritism to justify why the Pats constantly win. Both of you are missing the major point: If it is a rule the players are supposed to follow they need to follow it without interference or the refs need to enforce the rule and remind players before hand every time, every game, every single time this call comes up to make it fair. This is not a grey area rule that you two make it out to be: the refs either need to let the players play or they need to remind the players every time to enforce safety. They do both, that makes it grey area and there is NO room for grey area in this. It is because they are in the division. I see no one complaining about the Seahawks "getting calls" or the Broncos "getting calls" You're on a Bills board, most of us don't care about those calls. Go to another teams site and you'll read about it. Even Pats sites are upset calls didn't go there way last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I am sorry, but a WR checking in with a ref on alignment and an official proactively alerting a player of an illegal formation prior to the snap on the most crucial play of a game are two completely different scenarios. If you are unwilling to accept that the Pats* receive preferential treatment from the officials! you don't watch enough of their games. The pendulum swings their way more often than not on critical calls. What about the Hawks? I watched a game where they played Dallas and should have a lot of penalties called on them. Or is it they are not in our division so it does not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 So the Bills lost because of the refs? Did I say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Both of you are missing the major point: If it is a rule the players are supposed to follow they need to follow it without interference or the refs need to enforce the rule and remind players before hand every time, every game, every single time this call comes up to make it fair. This is not a grey area rule that you two make it out to be: the refs either need to let the players play or they need to remind the players every time to enforce safety. They do both, that makes it grey area and there is NO room for grey area in this. You're on a Bills board, most of us don't care about those calls. Go to another teams site and you'll read about it. Even Pats sites are upset calls didn't go there way last night Fans complaining about the refs, shocking. Does not mean it is even remotely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) It's ridiculous to try to say that unfair calls in the Patriots favor automatically means people are whining that the Bills lost because of the refs. If you can't separate the two that's you're problem, not mine. It's obviously not just against the Bills. It's against anyone the Patriots play. Whatever the reason, the refs seem to want the Patriots to win. I can think of COUNTLESS games over the past few years they barely won that included questionable calls helping them out. Why is that? Please explain this: -The Patriots are "the most penalized team in the league" so far this year but more than half of their penalties are 5-yarders. -So far this season, they've had more defensive pass interference penalties called against their opponents than any team in the league. -So far this season, they've had the second most offensive pass interference penalties called against their opponents of any team in the league. -Last season, they had the second most defensive pass interference penalties called against their opponents of any team in the league. -Last season, they had the third most offensive pass interference penalties called against their opponents of any team in the league. -In 2012, they had the second most defensive pass interference penalties called on opponents out of any team in the entire league. Edited October 17, 2014 by TheBillsWillRiseAgain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 What about the Hawks? I watched a game where they played Dallas and should have a lot of penalties called on them. Or is it they are not in our division so it does not matter. No, there are other teams in the league that this applies to, the Pats* are just the one we are discussing right now. I am not even saying it is intentional collusion. It is just like Lebron, Kobe and Jordan getting all the calls in basketball. The stars in any sport tend to get preferential treatment from officials whether that is right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 It's ridiculous to try to say that favorable unfair calls in the Patriots favor automatically means people are whining that the Bills lost because of the refs. If you can't separate the two that's you're problem, not mine. It's obviously not just against the Bills. It's against anyone the Patriots play. Its also ridiculous to make wild claims such as the Pats getting favorable calls in every game without any facts to back that up. And no, "I see it weekly" is not fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Fans complaining about the refs, shocking. Does not mean it is even remotely true. doesnt mean it is false either can i mail you some course books i had on intro to logic? it may help here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Its also ridiculous to make wild claims such as the Pats getting favorable calls in every game without any facts to back that up. And no, "I see it weekly" is not fact Did I not just post FACTS from the past 3 seasons that show the Patriots have been top 3 beneficiaries each year on two of the most important and game altering penalties in the game? Edited October 17, 2014 by TheBillsWillRiseAgain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 It's ridiculous to try to say that unfair calls in the Patriots favor automatically means people are whining that the Bills lost because of the refs. If you can't separate the two that's you're problem, not mine. It's obviously not just against the Bills. It's against anyone the Patriots play. Whatever the reason, the refs seem to want the Patriots to win. I can think of COUNTLESS games over the past few years they barely won that included questionable calls helping them out. Why is that? Please explain this: -The Patriots are "the most penalized team in the league" so far this year but more than half of their penalties are 5-yarders. -So far this season, they've had more defensive pass interference penalties called against their opponents than any team in the league. -So far this season, they've had the second most offensive pass interference penalties called against their opponents of any team in the league. -Last season, they had the second most defensive pass interference penalties called against their opponents of any team in the league. -Last season, they had the third most offensive pass interference penalties called against their opponents of any team in the league. -In 2012, they had the second most defensive pass interference penalties called on opponents out of any team in the entire league. Countless reasons (which none of us could possibly extract with any degree of accuracy) could exist that explain the above I suppose. But what does the above have to do with the play in question which clearly wasn't a penalty? To belabor this anymore is nothing more than ..... odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I obviously disagree with you that the play in question wasn't a penalty. That not being obvious is odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Did I not just post FACTS from the past 3 seasons that show the Patriots have been top 3 beneficiaries each year on two of the most important and game altering penalties in the game? Could it be the Pats play what have been 3 terrible teams twice that only select teams play once? doesnt mean it is false either can i mail you some course books i had on intro to logic? it may help here. Nice, insults because i don't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 Both of you are missing the major point: If it is a rule the players are supposed to follow they need to follow it without interference or the refs need to enforce the rule and remind players before hand every time, every game, every single time this call comes up to make it fair. This is not a grey area rule that you two make it out to be: the refs either need to let the players play or they need to remind the players every time to enforce safety. They do both, that makes it grey area and there is NO room for grey area in this. This is the core of the entire issue. The ref's are supposed be a neutral party that enforces the rules of the game. Not active particpants in the play and alter the outcome of that particular play and perhaps the game. The argument of whether NE gets preferential treatment is another story but one which has a lot of merit. So exactly what is the scope of their authority here? Should the officials inform a team or player when any procedural rule will be violated on a play? Inform a WR that he is covering an eligible receiver? Let the defense know they have 12 men on the field before the play? Tell the QB his offense is in an illegal formation so they can shift out of it? Tell a DE he's lined up offsides and to take a step back? From where I sit the NFL's response is more damage control than clarification of the rules. The ref exceeded the definition of his role and should have kept out of the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Could it be the Pats play what have been 3 terrible teams twice that only select teams play once? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 No. Oh ok. So just no, not possible or lets look at facts. Just, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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