Mike Williams exploring trade

[C.Biscuit97]

MW was not a problem in the locker room in Tampa, and I live there. He was a hell of a WR, and excellent #2, but was a knucklehead off the field.

 

He is not being used right this year. Part of that is just simply bad play from EJ. He was dumb to post on Saturday, but he can help us significantly if Orton can get his timing down with all of his WR.

 

He had his only good plays with EJ.

 

But it's not just this one thing. It's rarely just one thing that knocks somebody down, or exposes their true nature. It's the culmination of things that when taken together paint a full picture. If it's not MW, then it's Marrone and Stevie. If not them, then it's Pears. How about Bryce Brown? Or coddling EJ until he almost had a receiver revolt on his hands?

 

On paper this is the best personnel grouping that the Bills fielded in a long time, yet there's little to show for it and has a feel of spiraling out of control. I'm sure that he doesn't appreciate the dirty laundry getting aired. But he should also recognize that there are few signs out there that his players respect him. I'm sure that he is steamed that Sammy talked to the Syracuse reporter about the MW situation. But he's the one who created the mess by mismanaging the roster.

 

I also have a feeling that he's a big time liar. And it's not the type of lies that are said to the public and press to keep the focus off the team. It's the bad type of lies, where he's double talking inside the clubhouse to the players and the administration. The whole "I have a game to win" shtick with Pegula was pure bluster. Publicly blaming Schwartz for the last series. Whining that the MW situation is now his problem. Hell, he created the problem, and has the nerve to complain that it's somebody else's problem?

 

There are plenty of times where OBD and coaches need to be defended. I'm having a harder time finding those spots with Marrone & Co.

 

I agree with pretty much all this. I'm like the biggest coach defender on this site. I was like the last Jauron supporter ever. The Marrone regime just makes so many questionable moves.

 

I also think they are a bigger part of the problem with EJ. If I was Marrone, I would have had a veteran NFL OC to help develop my young QB. It would never happen but I'd love to see Gailey with this talent. He made scrubs into players.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

He had his only good plays with EJ.

 

 

 

I agree with pretty much all this. I'm like the biggest coach defender on this site. I was like the last Jauron supporter ever. The Marrone regime just makes so many questionable moves.

 

I also think they are a bigger part of the problem with EJ. If I was Marrone, I would have had a veteran NFL OC to help develop my young QB. It would never happen but I'd love to see Gailey with this talent. He made scrubs into players.

CB I'll be honest - I would have loved to have Stevie out there against the Pats. He, Sammy and woods would have been great.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

I can't wait till we get a real coach run ing this ship. Right now marrow is over his head along with his pretty boy hadkett. Hopefully Pegula family understands that ya need the right coaching group to develop your franchise QB unless ya buy one on the open market aka denver

[GG]

I also think they are a bigger part of the problem with EJ. If I was Marrone, I would have had a veteran NFL OC to help develop my young QB. It would never happen but I'd love to see Gailey with this talent. He made scrubs into players.

 

Always Bills luck. Imagine Gailey as OC and Pettine as DC.

[C.Biscuit97]

CB I'll be honest - I would have loved to have Stevie out there against the Pats. He, Sammy and woods would have been great.

 

Maybe I just like Stevie too much, but I think he has really matured. I think it was an unnecessary move. Especially now with the Mike Williams stuff.

 

Always Bills luck. Imagine Gailey as OC and Pettine as DC.

 

I can live with Schwartz but man, that would be an awesome coaching staff. I keep bashing him but Hackett is in over his head. I don't blame him. He's like 34 and only been an OC for 3 years.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

Maybe I just like Stevie too much, but I think he has really matured. I think it was an unnecessary move. Especially now with the Mike Williams stuff.

i thought Stevie was a good player. I understand why they moved on. He would have been an asset against the Pats. I don't think MW was really his replacement. I think woods is the one with the similar skill set and he took his place in the system. MW was a guy they took a chance on - and gave up very little for a proven player. But he has a 10 cent head so you get what you pay for. I hope things work out.

[4merper4mer]

 

 

But it's not just this one thing. It's rarely just one thing that knocks somebody down, or exposes their true nature. It's the culmination of things that when taken together paint a full picture. If it's not MW, then it's Marrone and Stevie. If not them, then it's Pears. How about Bryce Brown? Or coddling EJ until he almost had a receiver revolt on his hands?

 

On paper this is the best personnel grouping that the Bills fielded in a long time, yet there's little to show for it and has a feel of spiraling out of control. I'm sure that he doesn't appreciate the dirty laundry getting aired. But he should also recognize that there are few signs out there that his players respect him. I'm sure that he is steamed that Sammy talked to the Syracuse reporter about the MW situation. But he's the one who created the mess by mismanaging the roster.

 

I also have a feeling that he's a big time liar. And it's not the type of lies that are said to the public and press to keep the focus off the team. It's the bad type of lies, where he's double talking inside the clubhouse to the players and the administration. The whole "I have a game to win" shtick with Pegula was pure bluster. Publicly blaming Schwartz for the last series. Whining that the MW situation is now his problem. Hell, he created the problem, and has the nerve to complain that it's somebody else's problem?

 

There are plenty of times where OBD and coaches need to be defended. I'm having a harder time finding those spots with Marrone & Co.

The bluster does remind one of Greggo, no?

 

 

i thought Stevie was a good player. I understand why they moved on. He would have been an asset against the Pats. I don't think MW was really his replacement. I think woods is the one with the similar skill set and he took his place in the system. MW was a guy they took a chance on - and gave up very little for a proven player. But he has a 10 cent head so you get what you pay for. I hope things work out.

 

He may have a 10 cent head but he has a two bit coach. Given that Sammy has nothing but praise for him should Sammy be next up for the Marrone doghouse?

[dave mcbride]

i thought Stevie was a good player. I understand why they moved on. He would have been an asset against the Pats. I don't think MW was really his replacement. I think woods is the one with the similar skill set and he took his place in the system. MW was a guy they took a chance on - and gave up very little for a proven player. But he has a 10 cent head so you get what you pay for. I hope things work out.

 

I've said this before, but I strongly believe that Marrone was NOT happy that Johnson missed not one but two games at the end of last season for personal reasons. That's 1/8 of the season. If true, it suggests to me a) that Marrone is a bit of a jerk (not necessarily a bad thing for an NFL coach) and b) he was worried about perceived team softness. He was presumably happy to dump him, and the two week hiatus likely made him more likely to write him off. He coached for a quintessential Parcells guy (Payton) for three years, so I suspect that that has shaped his views on how to treat players. And we know how Parcells guys treat players who end up in their doghouses.

Edited October 16, 2014 by dave mcbride

[GG]

I've said this before, but I strongly believe that Marrone was NOT happy that Johnson missed not one but two games at the end of last season for personal reasons. That's 1/8 of the season. If true, it suggests to me a) that Marrone is a bit of a jerk (not necessarily a bad thing for an NFL coach) and b) he was worried about perceived team softness. He was presumably happy to dump him, and the two week hiatus likely made him more likely to write him off. He coached for a quintessential Parcells guy (Payton) for three years, so I suspect that that has shaped his views on how to treat players. And we know how Parcells guys treat players who end up in their doghouses.

 

The Parcells tree sprouted two good branches, the rest were deadwood. The Bellichick tree is bare. So is Payton's, so far.

[dave mcbride]

The Parcells tree sprouted two good branches, the rest were deadwood. The Bellichick tree is bare. So is Payton's, so far.

 

Um ... Tom Coughlin.

 

Also, you may laugh, but I don't think Sparano is a horrible coach. He took over a 1-15 team and got them to 11-5 the next season.

[boyst]

awe crap, here I come...

 

... was going to be 3rd at best on the depth chart, which was not something they thought he would handle well considering his attitude last season. They did him a favor sending him home to SF, unloaded his contract, and got a higher pick in return than they invested.

A) a 3rd best WR on the team means nothing. There are WRs listed at 3 that do more for their team then #1's. The number 1's may get the bulk of the yardage but the #3's come thru and usually are the blockers, the team players and in most cases can contribute on special teams - though, most do not.

(In Bills relation we did not have much for the ST that SJ13 was going to do and our #4 WR is a china doll we cannot rely on so we need ST contributors @ WR, at least 2 of them and we had one w/Easley already and the other with Hogan)

B) They? You do not simply say another group drafted these guys and you should dump proven and better athletes for players you deem as more important to the scheme.

 

Yolo, you're my man, but the 49ers gave up 4th to take a chance on Stevie. Their culture is a million times better than ours. The only culture we have is wasting talented offensive players.

Please, look again at the culture in SF. That place is ready to implode. That they are one of the best collections of football talent in the league is the only reason they're winning. They execute football plays and they are given good plays to execute. Harbaugh is a huge problem there and it is a matter of time before they blow up. The longer it goes the mark messier it is going to be.

 

blah blah blah blah blah blah...thats what most of you sound like. When I read this I thought, ya MW doesnt play st and the team had a 3 tight end set in the game plan when kyle williams suddenly became available that was that. What else can you say/think? You going to leave out woods and start that crap again? Why 13 pages of BS? You either bench hogan or williams and williams cant play st or go deep like goodwin (our only deep threat with graham being cut) So ya, what do you all not understand?????

I'd have inactivated Glass Goodwin. If we were sticking to the run we did not need a second speedster because Spiller and Watkins are just as fast. We were not going to stretch the field, we never should have considered it - not against Brady. We needed clock management. We needed big physical WR's that can wrestle the ball and that is what Bob Woods and Mike Williams do better then most. We had a big TE and we had Hogan in a position where Mike Williams should have been. Hogan ended up succeeding and that's terrific. But, it was a mistake. A huge mistake to put Goodwin in the active unit.

 

thats why it was a better fit for him. The winning culture was already there. He just needed to show up. In Bflo, he needed to buy in to change and display leadership as a veteran. That was not his strength, and why a place like Cleveland wouldn't work either. They are trying to do the same thing.

WINNING CULTURE? GOD I AM SICK OF HEARING SF HERALDED LIKE THEY'RE ALL THAT! They win but they remind me of the Eagles of a decade ago or the Bills before that. They go far and dominate other teams but they're not going to win it all, they will not win a Super Bowl in the next 5-6 years. Harbaugh will be lucky to lead that team or any other team to the Super Bowl.

 

I thought Stevie grew up a lot last year. The whole way he handled his mother dying was impressive to me. I would have him being our veteran wr mentor than Williams.

 

A lot of offensive players aren't reaching their potential here. I like the Marrone hire but his loyalty to his friend calling plays probably will cost him his job.

What is their ceiling? We have a history of drafting players with either huge upside that are a project or players with limited upside or Risks. We have only drafted two true blue chippers in, what, 5 years? After Woods I do not know if we have drafted a player that was worth starting on opening day.

 

Blue Chip: Sammy Watkins, Dareus

Risk: Alonso, Glenn, Gilmore, Shepard, Spiller, Troup,

Project: Manuel, Kouandjio, TJ Graham, Bradham, AWilliams, Carrington

Limitted: Woods, Goodwin, Easley, Brown, Searcy

 

We just never actually take players that are poised to contribute without being a huge risk or project. We do good getting players with limitted upside because we never expect too much from them.

 

Mike Williams has had issues since high school. He's extremely talented but there's a reason TB only got a 6th for him.

 

The fact that Mike Williams is having issues is hardly a shock. Yet, we traded for a guy who Marrone kicked off the team. I want to believe but I just can't right now.

What issues we actually know he is having? By all accounts he is saying and doing the right things.

 

CB I'll be honest - I would have loved to have Stevie out there against the Pats. He, Sammy and woods would have been great.

Stevie would have been open and been better then Hogan. Orton would have good rhythm with SJ13.

 

i thought Stevie was a good player. I understand why they moved on. He would have been an asset against the Pats. I don't think MW was really his replacement. I think woods is the one with the similar skill set and he took his place in the system. MW was a guy they took a chance on - and gave up very little for a proven player. But he has a 10 cent head so you get what you pay for. I hope things work out.

This is what we need to settle on and realize at this point WRT MW. He has talent and he appears to have grown up. TO came here and really satisfied us. We gave him a chance. Why can't we give MW a chance?

 

BTW, if TO was here now exactly as he came here back in whatever year that was - I have a feeling he would be the 3rd or 4th best WR on the team, too.

 

The Parcells tree sprouted two good branches, the rest were deadwood. The Bellichick tree is bare. So is Payton's, so far.

Amen.

 

Parcells may have been the best coach in this leagues history to compile coaching talent and assemble it in to a team that built teams.

[C.Biscuit97]

SF was ready to implode? That's more laughable Media BS. They are 4-2 & have been to the last 3 NFC title games. I'd love to a culture where that is considered imploding.

 

Remember when the media proclaimed NE was dead at 2-2? Stop listening to ESPN.

[boyst]

SF was ready to implode? That's more laughable Media BS. They are 4-2 & have been to the last 3 NFC title games. I'd love to a culture where that is considered imploding.

 

Remember when the media proclaimed NE was dead at 2-2? Stop listening to ESPN.

I don't listen to ESPN.

 

You can see it in the behavior of the team and you can hear it from former players.

 

SF will never win a Super Bowl with Harbaugh and Harbaugh himself will never win a Super Bowl.

[4merper4mer]

I don't listen to ESPN.

 

You can see it in the behavior of the team and you can hear it from former players.

 

SF will never win a Super Bowl with Harbaugh and Harbaugh himself will never win a Super Bowl.

 

How many Super Bowls do you think Marrone will win?

[boyst]

How many Super Bowls do you think Marrone will win?

Irrelevant to this conversation directly. Harbaugh is being regarded as the supreme coach, one of the best. He reminds me of Andy Reid.

 

Marrone will not win a Super Bowl, either. The next coach likely could.

Edited October 16, 2014 by jboyst62

[Best Player Available]

awe crap, here I come...

 

 

A) a 3rd best WR on the team means nothing. There are WRs listed at 3 that do more for their team then #1's. The number 1's may get the bulk of the yardage but the #3's come thru and usually are the blockers, the team players and in most cases can contribute on special teams - though, most do not.

(In Bills relation we did not have much for the ST that SJ13 was going to do and our #4 WR is a china doll we cannot rely on so we need ST contributors @ WR, at least 2 of them and we had one w/Easley already and the other with Hogan)

B) They? You do not simply say another group drafted these guys and you should dump proven and better athletes for players you deem as more important to the scheme.

 

 

Please, look again at the culture in SF. That place is ready to implode. That they are one of the best collections of football talent in the league is the only reason they're winning. They execute football plays and they are given good plays to execute. Harbaugh is a huge problem there and it is a matter of time before they blow up. The longer it goes the mark messier it is going to be.

 

I'd have inactivated Glass Goodwin. If we were sticking to the run we did not need a second speedster because Spiller and Watkins are just as fast. We were not going to stretch the field, we never should have considered it - not against Brady. We needed clock management. We needed big physical WR's that can wrestle the ball and that is what Bob Woods and Mike Williams do better then most. We had a big TE and we had Hogan in a position where Mike Williams should have been. Hogan ended up succeeding and that's terrific. But, it was a mistake. A huge mistake to put Goodwin in the active unit.

 

 

WINNING CULTURE? GOD I AM SICK OF HEARING SF HERALDED LIKE THEY'RE ALL THAT! They win but they remind me of the Eagles of a decade ago or the Bills before that. They go far and dominate other teams but they're not going to win it all, they will not win a Super Bowl in the next 5-6 years. Harbaugh will be lucky to lead that team or any other team to the Super Bowl.

 

 

What is their ceiling? We have a history of drafting players with either huge upside that are a project or players with limited upside or Risks. We have only drafted two true blue chippers in, what, 5 years? After Woods I do not know if we have drafted a player that was worth starting on opening day.

 

Blue Chip: Sammy Watkins, Dareus

Risk: Alonso, Glenn, Gilmore, Shepard, Spiller, Troup,

Project: Manuel, Kouandjio, TJ Graham, Bradham, AWilliams, Carrington

Limitted: Woods, Goodwin, Easley, Brown, Searcy

 

We just never actually take players that are poised to contribute without being a huge risk or project. We do good getting players with limitted upside because we never expect too much from them.

 

 

What issues we actually know he is having? By all accounts he is saying and doing the right things.

 

 

Stevie would have been open and been better then Hogan. Orton would have good rhythm with SJ13.

 

 

This is what we need to settle on and realize at this point WRT MW. He has talent and he appears to have grown up. TO came here and really satisfied us. We gave him a chance. Why can't we give MW a chance?

 

BTW, if TO was here now exactly as he came here back in whatever year that was - I have a feeling he would be the 3rd or 4th best WR on the team, too.

 

Amen.

 

Parcells may have been the best coach in this leagues history to compile coaching talent and assemble it in to a team that built teams.

Marcus Easley is not a receiver. If you can prove otherwise i am all ears.

[boyst]

Marcus Easley is not a receiver. If you can prove otherwise i am all ears.

He caught two passes in 2013.

 

I win!

[Best Player Available]

He caught two passes in 2013.

 

I win!

I hate getting beat!!

[Dorkington]

I'd prefer Williams over Hogan and Goodwin, personally. Goodwin is only used to run deep, and Hogan is a special teams guy, with no exceptional receiving skills (7-11, right, ok).

 

But hey, we have a philosophy. Stevie was a leader, he was shipped out. Woods was a leader, he was put on timeout. Williams is a leader, he's benched. Meh.

[boyst]

I'd prefer Williams over Hogan and Goodwin, personally. Goodwin is only used to run deep, and Hogan is a special teams guy, with no exceptional receiving skills (7-11, right, ok).

 

But hey, we have a philosophy. Stevie was a leader, he was shipped out. Woods was a leader, he was put on timeout. Williams is a leader, he's benched. Meh.

Marrone wants to be the leader. In a profession where men are paid millions to play a sport and make a career of it Marrone wants to lead from the sideline.

 

Coaches are not leaders. Just like parents are not friends. Coaches coach.