K-9 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 You're "not attacking Williams character?" Everything you said questioned his character. Not at all. I'm simply questioning his commitment to wanting to be a football player anymore. That's not an attack on his character, it's a comment on what he would rather do with his life. Sorry you read it that way. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 and yet a pro-bowl guard in his prime can be had for league minimum ... wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Actually, if you had read what I posted, that article was from 2013. The second article was from 2014. You just raced to respond. He was so injury-free in Buffalo that he immediately underwent surgery after signing a bonkers contract. Okay. Who do you suggest to get to replace wonderful Levitre? I already posted multiple high round draft picks who suck, many of whom you clamored for. So who? Incognito? If I remember correctly, you wanted to draft one of those sucky first-round G's over Incognito. Edit: Turns out I did remeber correctly. #9 Greg Robinson Hey, I can dream can't I? http://forums.twobil...ion-mock-draft/ Good call on Greg "10 snaps all year" Robinson. Kid looks like a stud. He lost his job to Davin Joesph who, wait for it, was the second worst guard in 2014 according to PFF. and if you look further into last year my favorite player in the draft was OG Zack Martin, as I also had him as my avatar for quite awhile. Buffalo was so desperate for a RT they drafted two this year, and Doug Whaley lucked out that the 7th round pick, and looks far, far better then the OT taken with the 2nd round pick. If the picks were reversed I doubt the 7th rounder even makes the team. There was also I time I wanted the Bills to draft OT Jake Matthews to solidify that RT position. I was also thinking RT because the Bills had already signed the scrub Williams in free agency, so no use in hoping for an early draft pick for a OG. Anyway, there was a solid reason Andy Levitre was given the money from the Titans 6 years, 46.8 million, as he hadn't missed one single game from the time he was drafted until the time he left Buffalo (2009-2012). Lots of teams were interested in signing Levitre, as in 2012 he graded (+17.3). He did need to undergo surgery the next season, and he stated he isn't playing up to his ability this season. Like I said, he has acknowledged that fact. Levitre wasn't just the Bills top pass protector, as he also graded as PFF's top OG as pass protection in 2012. Stating that he also graded as a (-.7) in run blocking. Did PFF get those grades wrong? Not from what I've seen. I've never advocated keeping Andy Levitre for 7.8 per. I just wanted to see him adequately replaced with a decent player. The bottom line, and more important point is this team continues to think they can scrape the bottom of other teams dumpsters for OG's. This isn't working on any level, and should be the very last resort considering the team was starting a young, inexperienced QB. The school of thought that you can always kick an OT into a guard doesn't seem to be working either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Been calling for this for two weeks. Now take step two and trade for a guard or sign Incognito. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) The Bills have graded as the worst collective O line in Pro football? Did I read that correctly? That's actually pretty impressive!!! Yea, they are starting a rookie 7th rounder at RT, and a rookie 5th rounder at LG. Not to mention a complete waste of money at RG. https://www.profootb...ine-rankings-2/ 32. Buffalo Bills PB: 31st, RB: 31st, PEN: 6th "Dud: The switch to right guard has not been kind to Erik Pears. Our lowest-ranked guard on the year, he’s been an abomination in the run game while allowing far too much pressure up the gut. There have been signs of progress but not enough to convince." Edited October 12, 2014 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 As I said in a subsequent post above, I don't think football is a burning passion of his anymore. That's what I mean by commitment. Again, not attacking his character. These questions go back to his rookie year and not just by me. GO BILLS!!! fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) Been calling for this for two weeks. Now take step two and trade for a guard or sign Incognito. my hunch is that better guard play is worth another 15-20 yards running per game ... that's just one or two more big runs from spiller. That extra 15-20 yards per probably worth at least one W too ... Edited October 12, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 No one is going to sign incognito, especially not the newest owner in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 No one is going to sign incognito, especially not the newest owner in the league. From what i gathered at the presser the new owners haven't really taken a hard look at the team just yet, and are leaving things in the hands of Brandon &co. Whats most important is winning this year to keep the status quo, and like others have stated better play at the OG would help produce better play of the entire offense currently ranked #28. I know Incognito is a different kind of crazy when he beats up his Ferrari, and not his family members, or verbally griefs teammates when they don't perform up to their pay grade.Normally I wouldn't want that clown on my team for anything, but from what I see this team is just about as desperate as desperate can get for a RG, and the Bills should take a chance on him for the remaining 10 games IMO. Besides the NFL has fully cleared the guy for a full return. I suppose we will need to see what kind of performance the line has against that Patriots team that is currently #4 in total defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Why do the Bills have such a long history of horrible O linemen signings? Through many different regimes also. I don't think it is the only reason...because some have sucked immediately but the changing of coaches and schemes probably doesn't help. Also I believe especially with O linemen they can be products of a system and don't do as well in other systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) From what i gathered at the presser the new owners haven't really taken a hard look at the team just yet, and are leaving things in the hands of Brandon &co. Whats most important is winning this year to keep the status quo, and like others have stated better play at the OG would help produce better play of the entire offense currently ranked #28. I know Incognito is a different kind of crazy when he beats up his Ferrari, and not his family members, or verbally griefs teammates when they don't perform up to their pay grade.Normally I wouldn't want that clown on my team for anything, but from what I see this team is just about as desperate as desperate can get for a RG, and the Bills should take a chance on him for the remaining 10 games IMO. Besides the NFL has fully cleared the guy for a full return. I suppose we will need to see what kind of performance the line has against that Patriots team that is currently #4 in total defense. The goal now is to win, yes. Is Incognito worth the risk to the locker room? I'm not sure, because we don't know the risk Incognito poses, and neither does the FO. Personally, I think Cyril and Seantrel will improve as the season goes on, and the unit will improve each week. We're not going to be perfect, but seeing as how there's only one rookie lineman a year who gets plugged in and dominates, that was to be pretty much expected. Let's hope Richardson and Seantrel get better as they adjust to the NFL. Clearly, Marrone and co. feel they will. If not, they'll give up on them and make a move for a G. Or they won't, the o-line will suck, and we'll get dominated up front all year. But you don't need to keep beating this same drum, we all agree with your analysis of Pears and the rookies. Whaley doesn't read this board. Edited October 12, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Terrible signing. Not sure what they were thinking. I'm sure what Marrone saw on tape made him think they could coach him up. I'm not sure about Marrone as a HC yet, and I'm also not sure of him as any kind of OL guru. Overall the FA signings all around have been pretty good. A lot of depth cogs. ST is clearly significantly improved. Graham, Dixon, Rivers, Orton, Gay, Schmidt have all performed. I am just speculating...but think Marrone was pushing Whaley on this as the perfect fit for his system especially with his run blocking as Marrone wants to run...run....run....accept when we play poor run defenses like Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I don't think it is the only reason...because some have sucked immediately but the changing of coaches and schemes probably doesn't help. Also I believe especially with O linemen they can be products of a system and don't do as well in other systems. Yep. Look at Levitre and to a lesser extent, Wood. While Wood is a good player, he looked much better with Chan's scheme. I think most offensive linemen would look good in Chan's scheme, simply because of how fast Fitz got his release off and our reliance on short throws. Pears even looked serviceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 its not just PFF, Football outsiders. or just browse the internet. https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=nfl+offensive+line+rankings+for+2014 "And then there is Chris Williams, the Ted McGinley of offensive linemen. The Bears, at their wishful-thinking worst, slid Williams from top left tackle prospect to right tackle to guard to backup center to Mike Tice golf caddie. The Rams then acquired Williams to ensure that Sam Bradford did not get any funny ideas about getting comfortable in the pocket. If you are planning to start Chris Williams, you need to do some better planning. The Bills have rookie Cyril Richardson in the fold, but the name "Chris Williams" atop a depth chart is reason enough to keep an offensive line near the bottom of any list." http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/77779304/nfl-best-worst-offensive-lines-dallas-cowboys-new-england-patriots-baltimore-ravens He had me at, "...the Ted McGinley of offensive linemen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Lets not ignore that San Diego, arguably the best team in football right now, has the 31st ranked line according to PFF. Good QB play offsets a lot of poor line play. The line somehow looked better with Orton back there, although we know he got hit plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Yep. Look at Levitre and to a lesser extent, Wood. While Wood is a good player, he looked much better with Chan's scheme. I think most offensive linemen would look good in Chan's scheme, simply because of how fast Fitz got his release off and our reliance on short throws. Pears even looked serviceable. I agree with you on Wood too. Chan's offense made the whole O line look good. I can't tell because I am not good at evaluation g the O lone and the Guard play has been poor...but...it seems Wood is not as strong run blocking as pass blocking. Hopefully with better Guard play Wood will play better. Overall he is good enough though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 The goal now is to win, yes. Is Incognito worth the risk to the locker room? I'm not sure, because we don't know the risk Incognito poses, and neither does the FO. Personally, I think Cyril and Seantrel will improve as the season goes on, and the unit will improve each week. We're not going to be perfect, but seeing as how there's only one rookie lineman a year who gets plugged in and dominates, that was to be pretty much expected. Let's hope Richardson and Seantrel get better as they adjust to the NFL. Clearly, Marrone and co. feel they will. If not, they'll give up on them and make a move for a G. Or they won't, the o-line will suck, and we'll get dominated up front all year. But you don't need to keep beating this same drum, we all agree with your analysis of Pears and the rookies. Whaley doesn't read this board. Dolphins players loved the guy. Tannehill even stuck his neck out sticking up for him at risk of being criticized for supporting a racist. It was just that jackass Martin who used the exact same language as richie, but was having a hard time ajustting to NFL (no wonder he's not very good). And blamed scapegoated Richie for his problems. If dog drowning Vick and Riley Cooper (who clearly used racist terms) can play, why can't Richie for using off color language kidding with a guy who he thought was a friend and was using the same language ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Even the casuals knew this was a horrible signing when it happened. Which is odd since the team has usually been good in recent years with signing guards off the scrap heap. They went after Williams pretty aggressive and the money wasn't insignificant. Doesn't Williams have some guaranteed next year? That would really be a bad signing if he has an impact on the cap next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 analytics department has a few kinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Lets not ignore that San Diego, arguably the best team in football right now, has the 31st ranked line according to PFF. Good QB play offsets a lot of poor line play. The line somehow looked better with Orton back there, although we know he got hit plenty. I really, really don't think it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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