FireChan Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Eric Wood has been here for more than a few years now and spoke pretty highly of EJ's preparation. That bond and that respect from your center are important. If he says so, I believe him. Don't misunderstand me, by all accounts EJ is one of the hardest-working players on the team. I don't disagree with that. Still, our offense is "vanilla," right? And yet, they had to scale it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 This is the type of thing that worries me. It's completely possible that ej can play. At the same time it seems like he is being told to hold back. I've seen maybe 3 "deep" passes by him in the preseason. Either they are limiting his deep ball to hide it since he had issues last year or it is an issue that can't be overcome. I got it's not the latter. What about in practice? If they are not opening up the playbook in preseason games, it stands to reason they will take their shots. They did last year, and that was before Big Mike and Sammy arrived. He also threatened to kill a team mate. Do you believe that too? Shirley you must be joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCBongo Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Can we at least give EJ the first game before we reassign him as the #2? If he shows good, then I am happy to give him game 2. Beside, Orton will not be up to speed and we might as well see if our #1 draft pick has immanent potential or if the Bills FO done did it again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Shirley you must be joking. I'm not and don't call me Surely. The plays were different for EJ than they were for the other QBs, vanilla offense or not. There are enough grumblings out there to believe whether EJ has fully mastered the offense rather than Hackett holding things back. As for Wood, I take anything players say to the press with a grain of salt. What else should he say? Plus, did he volunteer the comment or was he asked about EJ's knowledge? To me that's a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I'm not and don't call me Surely. The plays were different for EJ than they were for the other QBs, vanilla offense or not. There are enough grumblings out there to believe whether EJ has fully mastered the offense rather than Hackett holding things back. As for Wood, I take anything players say to the press with a grain of salt. What else should he say? Plus, did he volunteer the comment or was he asked about EJ's knowledge? To me that's a big difference. This is the story: http://www.buffalone...two-bills-drive It doesn't sound like boilerplate to me, but I'm sure a different impression could be formed. What else should he say? He could say that EJ has worked hard but we're still working towards the results, or some other kind of qualifier. He chose not to say that. And who are the grumblings from, beyond last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 I don't think making EJ #2 means you gave up on him, especially if you have an old vet like Orton. If EJ needs time to develop give him time without ruining him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 This is the story: http://www.buffalone...two-bills-drive It doesn't sound like boilerplate to me, but I'm sure a different impression could be formed. What else should he say? He could say that EJ has worked hard but we're still working towards the results, or some other kind of qualifier. He chose not to say that. And who are the grumblings from, beyond last season? Yes, a different impression can certainly be formed. Especially with the statements immediately following Wood's: Downing said Manuel is running the line of scrimmage. “He’s taking ownership of things,” he said. “The communication between he and the offensive line is so much better than it was, and a lot of that is just growth from Year One to Year Two.” Now exactly what is Downing's frame of reference to last year? Look, the exact same pieces have been written since May's OTAs about how much EJ worked in the offseason with personal coaches, has stayed up all night dissecting film, put in extra training sessions, worked overtime to learn the game better. Yet, we go the guy who couldn't score a TD against first stringers in 5 preseason games. If that isn't enough to doubt the prospects, I don't know what is. We all realize that he's the guy the team is invested in, but we also shouldn't be blind to the fact that he's not quite ready yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Yes, a different impression can certainly be formed. Especially with the statements immediately following Wood's: Now exactly what is Downing's frame of reference to last year? Look, the exact same pieces have been written since May's OTAs about how much EJ worked in the offseason with personal coaches, has stayed up all night dissecting film, put in extra training sessions, worked overtime to learn the game better. Yet, we go the guy who couldn't score a TD against first stringers in 5 preseason games. If that isn't enough to doubt the prospects, I don't know what is. We all realize that he's the guy the team is invested in, but we also shouldn't be blind to the fact that he's not quite ready yet. If everyone else around him were playing perfectly, I'd hang the lack of TDs on him solely. They weren't. I don't want to argue, that's just the way that I see it. Does he deserve a share of the blame? Without a doubt. Is it correctable? Yes. Did it happen during a time where corrections are to be made? Yes. I hope we start seeing it soon, for us, and to stave off the negativity that people just seem to be embracing whole hog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 You know, when you look at Orton's career, he's not bad: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm. The problem is that he's a Steve Deberg sorta good. To quote Bill Walsh: "He's just good enough to get you beat." The other great DeBerg-related quote is s follows: "He's just good enough to get you fired." Orton, who I love as a backup (he's way better than most), is that sort of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper13 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 They didn't give Orton $5 million to stand on the sideline and operate the tablet. That should speak for itself. Marrone, Hackett, Whaley- their jobs are all on the line as there is a new owner on the way. They have to win this season. They can't give EJ another year to develop. If he does not win games early he will sit. They did it to themselves. I don't feel sorry for any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 You know, when you look at Orton's career, he's not bad: http://www.pro-footb...O/OrtoKy00.htm. The problem is that he's a Steve Deberg sorta good. To quote Bill Walsh: "He's just good enough to get you beat." The other great DeBerg-related quote is s follows: "He's just good enough to get you fired." Orton, who I love as a backup (he's way better than most), is that sort of player. Exactly. Steve Deberg is a very good analogy, too. EJ would have to completely crap the bed for eight games before they put Orton in, IMO, and I very much doubt that is going to happen. Ej was average last year. If he plays exactly the same as he did, with this WR corps and a healthy CJ and Fred, and a HC and OC who are not rookies, the Bills will easily be 8-8, without him getting any better. And I expect him to be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 You know, when you look at Orton's career, he's not bad: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm. The problem is that he's a Steve Deberg sorta good. To quote Bill Walsh: "He's just good enough to get you beat." The other great DeBerg-related quote is s follows: "He's just good enough to get you fired." Orton, who I love as a backup (he's way better than most), is that sort of player. Kind of like Fitzpatrick (but better). As I used to love to say about Fitz, he was often the best player on the field - for both teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 This is the type of thing that worries me. It's completely possible that ej can play. At the same time it seems like he is being told to hold back. I've seen maybe 3 "deep" passes by him in the preseason. Either they are limiting his deep ball to hide it since he had issues last year or it is an issue that can't be overcome. I got it's not the latter. I think why the fans, my self included are really more skeptical this year, the reason why the boo birds are out during preseason games is because almost everyone is worried. I would know that if we still next year's first I would feel better about EJ faltering.... You bring up a great point and I hope they aren't trying to hold him back - that does nothing for anyone. I don't understand why we would try to hide the deep ball in the preseason; I am sure that is a pretty standard type of throw for most teams. A few standard deep plays should have been a no-brainer.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellyto83TD Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 No matter what the Bills STILL after all these years can't find a damn good starting QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 They didn't give Orton $5 million to stand on the sideline and operate the tablet. That should speak for itself. Marrone, Hackett, Whaley- their jobs are all on the line as there is a new owner on the way. They have to win this season. They can't give EJ another year to develop. If he does not win games early he will sit. They did it to themselves. I don't feel sorry for any of them. Do you know how much of that $5 mill is guaranteed? That's not a lot of money as far as NFL QBs are concerned and the Bills can afford to pay for a good backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 If you plan to turn the team over to Orton. EJ is not the answer and you need to be looking for a replacement. There is no point holding out hope for a guy who is not going to get any better sitting in the bench. EJ is the type of player who needs a lot of reps and if there is not tangible improvement the FO missed the mark time to cut the cord. I want to see if EJ can make it through a season without injuries. I think there has been some minor improvement from what I have seen from EJ in terms of delivery and footwork. The moving o-line around him has not helped with things. Chemistry with WRs takes time to build upon. Keeping the guy on the bench there will always be questions whether or not if he can be the man. I think he needs to go through the growing pains and see if he can make it. Orton is a serviceable starter but there is a reason he is a backup at this point in his career. Bills were desperate and paid for the lack of experience. If EJ is a franchise QB like this FO believes he can be it is time to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Northern Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Promo is right that the Cleveland pick is driving this. At $5 M per season, Orton is an expensive insurance policy that will most certainly be used as soon as week 4 if EJ sucks it up. The Bills do not pay for depth. This guy is coming here to make sure we get at least 6-8 wins and the Browns draft no higher than 10. After Tampa game, Brandon/Whaley had to know EJ was capable of posting 2-3 wins if he had a downward spiral and lost confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Yes. I would be upset. It would reveal this staff to be fickle, unhinged and poor at planning. If they wanted EJ to be in a fight for his job, that is a decision that should have been made in January. Handing the reins to a guy who has been here a week and didn't go through camp with his brothers is sure to strike a sizable divide in the locker room. Legitimate or not based on his play, EJ needs to be the guy. They have not prepared for any other situation. I think that he hasn't done enough to lose the job, and Orton sure as hell hasn't shown enough here to have earned it. If after six weeks it looks different and you need a season-saving move, fine. While I agree with you it's poor planning, without a doubt, they really had hope that Ej would improve in the off season and training camp. While he does looks better in his throwing motion and presence, IMO, his accuracy is still suspect. Unfortunately, in Febuary, they didnt know he wouldn't progress. Now, after 5 preseason games, they saw that our backups were complete bums and EJs ability to move the ball and score touchdowns is suspect, they needed to make a move. And they did. They want to win now. If Orton gives us the best chance to win. I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Northern Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Do you know how much of that $5 mill is guaranteed? That's not a lot of money as far as NFL QBs are concerned and the Bills can afford to pay for a good backup. All of it is guaranteed as of week 1. The Bills CAN pay for a good backup. But they don't ever pay for good backup. In fact, they refused to meet Orton's contract demands earlier in camp when he could have still come in and been ready for the opener. Only when EJ sh&t the bed against TB and DET did they realize they had no choice because EJ + Tuel = Browns drafting top 3 in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 EJ hater's logic: I want Orton to start because he can give the Bills EJ like numbers as the starting QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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