Dorkington Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 If Orton had a full offseason to learn the offense, I'd be open to the idea of him starting. But as of right now, EJ is the best we have for this offense, simply due to familiarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 To further buttress your point, Brady was little more than a game manager when he 1st began playing for the Patriots. A guy like Matthew Stafford is still developing as an NFL QB. Here is what Brady said about his rookie season... "I was lucky to really have a chance that whole first year to be in a situation where I wasn't forced to play and lose a bunch of confidence," Brady said. "I wasn't prepared to play my first year. That's all that would have happened, I would've gone out and get beat and lost a ton of confidence in what I was doing. I was able to sit there, watch, learn, grow, grow into my body a little bit, improve my throwing mechanics and then my second year I went in there really competing for the backup job and ended up winning it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 We already know about EJ. I hate to say it...but you guys have watched everything that I have. Put EJ on the practice squad. Dig him up in a few years. He's currently not an NFL caliber QB. Orton gives us a shot at a wildcard this year. EJ....even if he stays healthy is too easy for DC's to defend. He's no good. Yet. some of these posts are just plain stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtDart Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 QBs are just not eased in anymore and in retrospect I don't think it would hv mattered if he was, still would hv horrible mechanics, would be inaccurate, etc. They are too far in with EJ to go backwards which would just be dumb IMO. If they ever decide to go with Orton which won't be anytime soon it will be bc EJ isn't playing well and the team is struggling. It would have been nice if we had a situation like Rodgers, and Brady had, where EJ could have sat back for a few years and learned the game. But we didn't, so now the kid has to learn on the fly. If you look at his stats last tear they weren't all that bad save the TB game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 If Orton had a full offseason to learn the offense, I'd be open to the idea of him starting. But as of right now, EJ is the best we have for this offense, simply due to familiarity. Yeah, biggest reason not to start Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) Please back up your assertion with a detailed analysis to support your conclusion. Thanks. He's not good, I mean all you have to do is watch him play. Those are his pro and college career numbers. They're eerily similar, they aren't "wow" stats. Like I said before he is what he is. http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ej-manuel-1.html http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15803/ej-manuel Well Peyton Manning did. Tom Brady did. Aaron Rogers did. Drew Brees did. Colin Kaepernick did. Nick Foles did. Ben Rothlisberger did. Eli Manning did. RG3 regressed. Well Peyton was a rookie in 1999 like I said. Tom Brady didn't play his first year and when he got thrown in he wasn't as a bad. Foles and Kaepernick didn't start their first year either. Edited September 1, 2014 by Lincoln Osiris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 He's not good, I mean all you have to do is watch him play. Those are his pro and college career numbers. They're eerily similar, they aren't "wow" stats. Like I said before he is what he is. http://www.sports-re...j-manuel-1.html http://espn.go.com/n...15803/ej-manuel Well Peyton was a rookie in 1999 like I said. Tom Brady didn't play his first year and when he got thrown in he wasn't as a bad. Foles and Kaepernick didn't start their first year either. This is the detailed analysis you provide to back up your claim? You have failed miserably. Stating another unqualified opinion and providing stats isn't proof of anything. His NFL "rookie" stats says he's mediocre. They don't say he's horrible or great which is typical of an inexperienced QB. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Brown Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I hate to say it BUT Orton will be the starter by week five. They didn't pay him $5 million for THIS year, to not be on the field. All confidence in EJ is gone, by EJ himself, the staff & the fans. 2-14. By the way, Is Kyles dad Cowboy Bob Orton!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 This is the detailed analysis you provide to back up your claim? You have failed miserably. Stating another unqualified opinion and providing stats isn't proof of anything. His NFL "rookie" stats says he's mediocre. They don't say he's horrible or great which is typical of an inexperienced QB. Try again. All I was saying from the jump is that he's not playing like a good QB or even mediocre QB. What's your argument about what you've seen from him? Honestly what has he done that's shown you any promise whatsoever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 All I was saying from the jump is that he's not playing like a good QB or even mediocre QB. What's your argument about what you've seen from him? Honestly what has he done that's shown you any promise whatsoever? What I have seen this preseason is a QB willing to make throws when receivers are well covered. Exhibit A is the end zone throw in the Hall of Fame Game vs the Giants. I have also seen a much more decisive EJ Manuel who has quickly made the correct read, thrown the ball on seam, comeback, and deep out routes with timing and anticipation well before the intended target has been out of the break. Several examples of this were shown in the Carolina, Pittsburgh, and yes.....even the Tampa Bay game. See the linked for reference: http://www.buffaloru...elers-preseason Q2 - 7:48 - 3rd and 9 Just before this play, Seantrel Henderson made his first dumb rookie mistake and got called on a false start. A 3rd and 4 becomes a difficult 3rd and 9. No big deal, says Manuel. 16-yard deep out, right on the money to Woods. That's why they drafted Manuel, because few people have the arm strength to zip it over there on time. First down. If you know what to look for there are clearly obvious signs of progress. Is it consistent? No it is not. While EJ has shown flashes of talent even going back to last year, there is much work to be done to prove he can be a consistent quality NFL caliber QB. I remain hopeful because he has the physical talent to make it happen combined intelligence, hard work and drive it takes to be great. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 What I have seen this preseason is a QB willing to make throws when receivers are well covered. Exhibit A is the end zone throw in the Hall of Fame Game vs the Giants. I have also seen a much more decisive EJ Manuel who has quickly made the correct read, thrown the ball on seam, comeback, and deep out routes with timing and anticipation well before the intended target has been out of the break. Several examples of this were shown in the Carolina, Pittsburgh, and yes.....even the Tampa Bay game. See the linked for reference: http://www.buffaloru...elers-preseason If you know what to look for there are clearly obvious signs of progress. Is it consistent? No it is not. While EJ has shown flashes of talent even going back to last year, there is much work to be done to prove he can be a consistent quality NFL caliber QB. I remain hopeful because he has the physical talent to make it happen combined intelligence, hard work and drive it takes to be great. Go Bills! I'm not saying not to remain hopeful or to hate this guy. I've watched all the games too, is everything bad on on offense attributed to his play no. But when you're the QB your mistakes stick out. Just like he might have make some good throws a couple times on come back routes there's also been a lot of missed deep throws, short out routes and crossing patterns. His anticipation on throws have been better but he's still forcing throws, throwing behind receivers, and throwing too high on a consistent basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Whaley originally intended in 2013 to ease him in and play the veteran Kevin Kolb. All that changed with Rubber Mat-gate. So now we have Orton and EJ is still struggling some. Would you be upset if they made EJ #2 and let him continue his development backing up Orton who would start? I don't know how much of a learning curve there is to the Bills offense, or how quick Orton can pick things up. But considering the pressure on Whaley not to flush the season and have Cleveland get a high pick, and the fact that he was willing to let EJ ride the bench before he was forced to play him, and his willingness to flush Lewis and Tuel, I think that this could happen. so, it's not the o-line? jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 so, it's not the o-line? jw Apparently PTR watched the Lions game, and so now it's safe for the rest of us to be skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) so, it's not the o-line? jw Trolling me now, are we? And yes the O-line still stinks but since you think a veteran QB can magically make plays behind a crap line, let's go with it. Edited September 1, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I hate to say it BUT Orton will be the starter by week five. They didn't pay him $5 million for THIS year, to not be on the field. They paid him $5 million because we had no other good options and he had all the leverage. He and/or his agent played the game well against Dallas too in keeping all of the signing bonus. I don't think it's necessarily a reflection on the plans of the coaching staff. They HAD to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 All I was saying from the jump is that he's not playing like a good QB or even mediocre QB. What's your argument about what you've seen from him? Honestly what has he done that's shown you any promise whatsoever? My arguement is that he hasnt played a full 16 game season yet......it pretty much ends all arguements so, it's not the o-line? jw Your better then that John (I think) I hate to say it BUT Orton will be the starter by week five. They didn't pay him $5 million for THIS year, to not be on the field. All confidence in EJ is gone, by EJ himself, the staff & the fans. 2-14. By the way, Is Kyles dad Cowboy Bob Orton!? THey paid him that money because he might possibly be the best BACKUP QB in the league and the bills are starting to be a organization that wants to do this....much like taking a once a 5 year WR talent even though its gonna cost a bundle much like taking a troubled offensive tackle because they knew he had starting talent and on and on It does NOT say they are looking to replace their 1st round investment QB.....injuries happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) Whaley originally intended in 2013 to ease him in and play the veteran Kevin Kolb. All that changed with Rubber Mat-gate. So now we have Orton and EJ is still struggling some. Would you be upset if they made EJ #2 and let him continue his development backing up Orton who would start? I don't know how much of a learning curve there is to the Bills offense, or how quick Orton can pick things up. But considering the pressure on Whaley not to flush the season and have Cleveland get a high pick, and the fact that he was willing to let EJ ride the bench before he was forced to play him, and his willingness to flush Lewis and Tuel, I think that this could happen. Promo, it's a fine idea to sit the rookie QB and let him learn - when you have a capable veteran backup who has had time to learn the system and get on the same page with the WRs. In this situation where Orton is 1) showing up a week before the season 2) has had so little playing time of recent 3) is a career journeyman QB, I don't understand why people feel a decision to start Orton would be anything but a decision to flush the season. It's not that I don't like the move - I think Orton is a respectable NFL backup QB and we needed a respectable NFL backup QB But when you look up Orton's history and his record, I just don't get why folks here seem to think Orton is the answer to achieving a winning season or "all that and a bag of chips" as a QB. There's a reason the Bears shipped him off to Denver for Cutler (and had to toss in 2 1st round draft picks and a 3rd to seal the deal). There's a reason Tebow (who no one now wants as a QB) snuck into the starting lineup ahead of Orton and Orton was eventually waived. Edited September 1, 2014 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Promo, it's a fine idea to sit the rookie QB and let him learn - when you have a capable veteran backup who has had time to learn the system and get on the same page with the WRs. In this situation where Orton is 1) showing up a week before the season 2) has had so little playing time of recent 3) is a career journeyman QB, I don't understand why people feel a decision to start Orton would be anything but a decision to flush the season. It's not that I don't like the move - I think Orton is a respectable NFL backup QB and we needed a respectable NFL backup QB But when you look up Orton's history and his record, I just don't get why folks here seem to think Orton is the answer to achieving a winning season or "all that and a bag of chips" as a QB. There's a reason the Bears shipped him off to Denver for Cutler (and had to toss in 2 1st round draft picks and a 3rd to seal the deal). There's a reason Tebow (who no one now wants as a QB) snuck into the starting lineup ahead of Orton and Orton was eventually waived. I agree. I just wanted to float the idea that sitting EJ is not giving up on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I don't see why this is such a deep discussion on this board. It goes like this. EJ starts. Win or lose. If he sucks through 16 games, Marrone and Hackett will fall back on that as to why they should keep their jobs. The other scenario is EJ gets hurt. Orton either comes in and wins and EJ stays on the bench for the rest of the season or Orton loses and they put EJ back in when he's healthy and again, use him as the reason they should keep their jobs. I would prefer if EJ comes in, lights it up around week 3 or 4 and stays that course and takes us to the playoffs. But that's just me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 But when you look up Orton's history and his record, I just don't get why folks here seem to think Orton is the answer to achieving a winning season or "all that and a bag of chips" as a QB. For the same reason some thought that Manuel was going to be a good QB when he was drafted. The same reason Marrone was going to be a great HC when he was hired. The same reason Gailey, Jerrahs "biggest mistake firing him", was the diamond in the rough that everyone else missed. The same reason WannaStache was exactly the DC the team needed. And so on, and so on. There was no reason to believe any of those at the beginning, but some choose to anyway. They are the name you have chosen for this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts