Jauronimo Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 What if he likes eating spiders? Stink bugs, bees, cobwebs, Arby's. I would find a way to motivate that kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Stink bugs, bees, cobwebs, Arby's. I would find a way to motivate that kid. And that's the rub. Is it that the Bills don't have anyone on staff who can penetrate him or is it that nothing penetrates? Yes, it's preseason, but has there been a marked improvement over last year's camp? That's why I'm being more down on EJ than I had in past because I'm not seeing that improvement, and am starting to fall into the doubters camp more. It's not like the kid came from a small time program. He was a highly recruited high school kid, went to a big time college program, and yet the same concerns plague him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PS 56 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The problem is lack of real competition. He has the job no matter what This is absolutely the problem. All pre-season its been EJ, EJ, EJ.... we are giving him every tool to succeed, we are giving him this, that, whatever. What the coaches and staff have not done is give him competition. A key part to every plan is backup. What happens if EJ doesn't pan out? Who is there to compete for his job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdk Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 we shall see. real games start very soon. then we will know what we have. preseason = garbage. If not for the huge $$ involved, we would be down to 2 games by now in the new CBA. unfortunately, doesn't look like EJ is the real deal.. this could get ugly You want "ugly"? Flash forward to 2015's NFL draft where, after an abysmal season, Buffalo's fans desperate for a franchise QB, are forced to sit on the sidelines without their #1 pick. Can you imagine the roaming lynch mobs? That will be ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Yes. Yes. And yes. Look up the difference between "inadequate coping mechanisms" and "solutions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 And that's the rub. Is it that the Bills don't have anyone on staff who can penetrate him or is it that nothing penetrates? Yes, it's preseason, but has there been a marked improvement over last year's camp? That's why I'm being more down on EJ than I had in past because I'm not seeing that improvement, and am starting to fall into the doubters camp more. It's not like the kid came from a small time program. He was a highly recruited high school kid, went to a big time college program, and yet the same concerns plague him. Me too. We can still win some games, but I'm having a hard time believing that EJ will develop into the player we hoped he could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi1 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Mr. T I share your legitimate concerns, but Could the play calling by the OC be the issue here? I'm not defending Manuel, but it seems he is a bit robotic out there as if he is hamstrung with minute details as oppose to fluid motion. We all know, any play drawn up on the board may not exactly unfold the way it's written given actual game conditions, so Manuel will have to start making some quick reads, check off and find an open target as oppose to forcing ill times passes to the tune of play selection. As far as the backup situation looks presently, no offense to 1st round pick Sammy Watkins, but the Bills could have done the whole organization a favor and brought in a seasoned veteran quarterback with some life still in his arm and legs instead. The Ryan Fitzpatrick move wasn't a wise move at all, but what's done is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't think he's coddled EJ. We haven't had many glowing reports from Doug about him. EJ is clearly the best guy in camp and that's apparent. But even the other day he said he needs to play better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I truly believe EJs biggest problem is Hacket. He plays so much better when he stops thinking and just plays football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Something more than EJ is wrong here. The kid looks worse than last year, the o line is a disaster, the WRs are running the wrong routes... Maybe the pressure to win is causing these kitties to crumble when they are on the field...? EJ was very good in some games, very bad in others. I still have hope he just needs to get through a few complete games and build confidence with success. Also Williams didn't play much WR, but he is the #1 on the team untill we see different. Teams are going to put 8 in the box and choke off the run so EJ better figure it out.... 9 days to learn the real story I dispute the notion that EJ looks worse then last year....... He doesnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Mr. T I share your legitimate concerns, but Could the play calling by the OC be the issue here? I'm not defending Manuel, but it seems he is a bit robotic out there as if he is hamstrung with minute details as oppose to fluid motion. We all know, any play drawn up on the board may not exactly unfold the way it's written given actual game conditions, so Manuel will have to start making some quick reads, check off and find an open target as oppose to forcing ill times passes to the tune of play selection. As far as the backup situation looks presently, no offense to 1st round pick Sammy Watkins, but the Bills could have done the whole organization a favor and brought in a seasoned veteran quarterback with some life still in his arm and legs instead. The Ryan Fitzpatrick move wasn't a wise move at all, but what's done is done. Back in college, Manuel wasn't known for being a mentally fluid player, or for processing information quickly, or for having a good handle on the mental aspects of the game. He ran a simplified offense. Going into the NFL, he was considered a "raw" prospect, despite having spent four years on his college team, including two as the starter. I'm not exactly what you'd call Hackett's biggest fan. Nevertheless, I don't think he can be blamed for the fact that Manuel is showing exactly the same mental limitations in the NFL that he demonstrated in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 This is absolutely the problem. All pre-season its been EJ, EJ, EJ.... we are giving him every tool to succeed, we are giving him this, that, whatever. What the coaches and staff have not done is give him competition. A key part to every plan is backup. What happens if EJ doesn't pan out? Who is there to compete for his job? What happens if EJ doesn't pan out? The same thing that has happened for the last decade and a half. Who is there to compete for his job? Currently? No one. Back in college, Manuel wasn't known for being a mentally fluid player, or for processing information quickly, or for having a good handle on the mental aspects of the game. He ran a simplified offense. Going into the NFL, he was considered a "raw" prospect, despite having spent four years on his college team, including two as the starter. I'm not exactly what you'd call Hackett's biggest fan. Nevertheless, I don't think he can be blamed for the fact that Manuel is showing exactly the same mental limitations in the NFL that he demonstrated in college. Good post. A lot of Bills fans don't seem to realize that the EJ we have seen is who EJ is, and who he will always be. The Seminole Fanatics in Tallahassee have warned of this. All you have to do is listen. And then watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Back in college, Manuel wasn't known for being a mentally fluid player, or for processing information quickly, or for having a good handle on the mental aspects of the game. He ran a simplified offense. Going into the NFL, he was considered a "raw" prospect, despite having spent four years on his college team, including two as the starter. I'm not exactly what you'd call Hackett's biggest fan. Nevertheless, I don't think he can be blamed for the fact that Manuel is showing exactly the same mental limitations in the NFL that he demonstrated in college. We have had this discussion for a very long time so I apologize for the repetition. Most analysts considered EJ to be a raw prospect who was going to take 3-4 yrs of grooming before being ready to start. Taking him in the first round was a major reach by Buddy/Whaley. Nix lost qb prospects he was interested in such as Wilson and Cousins by waiting too long to make the selection. So Nix who knew he was leaving was determined to draft a qb in his las draft when the caliber of prospects was not nearly as good as prior years. The mistake that this staff made was not having a veteran qb such as Cassell or Schaub to bridge the learning period for the raw prospect they drafted. What EJ demonstrated in college is that the more he played the better he got. It's apparent to me that he is not the type of qb who is going to quickly make the quantum leap forward. At this juncture the best that one can hope for is that he gets steadily better the more he plays. I don't have as much concern about his ability to read plays as you do. With more experience he should get better at that aspect of the game. My major concern with him is his accuaracy level. My view on the accuracy issue is that you either have it or not. Watching him I am very troubled at that part of his game. Even with swing passes to the backs his ball placement is very erratic. The Jauron/Levy/Nix eras were replete with many bad if not peculiar decisions that damaged this franchise. When you make a bad decision on the qb position you set your franchise back by years. Not having a backup plan at the qb position was not only foolish but it was reckless. Edited August 29, 2014 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 We have had this discussion for a very long time so I apologize for the repetition. Most analysts considered EJ to be a raw prospect who was going to take 3-4 yrs of grooming before being ready to start. Taking him in the first round was a major reach by Buddy/Whaley. Nix lost qb prospects he was interested in such as Wilson and Cousins by waiting too long to make the selection. So Nix who knew he was leaving was determined to draft a qb in his las draft when the caliber of prospects was not nearly as good as prior years. The mistake that this staff made was not having a veteran qb such as Cassell or Schaub to bridge the learning period for the raw prospect they drafted. What EJ demonstrated in college is that the more he played the better he got. It's apparent to me that he is not the type of qb who is going to quickly make the quantum leap forward. At this juncture the best that one can hope for is that he gets steadily better the more he plays. I don't have as much concern about his ability to read plays as you do. With more experience he should get better at that aspect of the game. My major concern with him is his accuaracy level. My view on the accuracy issue is that you either have it or not. Watching him I am very troubled at that part of his game. Even with swing passes to the backs his ball placement is very erratic. The Jauron/Levy/Nix eras were replete with many bad if not peculiar decisions that damaged this franchise. When you make a bad decision on the qb position you set your franchise back by years. Not having a backup plan at the qb position was not only foolish but it was reckless. Fitz easily could have filled this roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Fans get to have it all the ways they want when they're in "complain" mode. Get mad about coddling now, but then also get mad about leaving guys in there, susceptible to injury, when the front office hasn't provided them a viable plan B. Complaining rules! If he hasn't unleashed the whole offense, the whole catalog of what his starter will be doing, then how can we really evaluate that from the outside? If the starter is really working on his mechanics and timing and that's the focus - not a scripted drive or a game-plan - then what are we supposed to think we're seeing here? I'll bite that EJ still seems to be working a lot of that out. I'll actually get worried if and when they all suck in actual games. Wow you really are an apologist, even if that is the case he isn't doing that well either. Honestly his timing and accuracy are his biggest issue and have been since he has been in college and just isn't getting better. Winning and game planing don't matter in preseason but he at least needs to look competent. Any parent of a sensitive kid can tell you, 'lighting a fire under their ass' will usually cause them to wilt, not flourish. The backup conversation is just noise. There is no other potential NFL starting QB on the team besides EJ. If that is the case he is done already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Wow you really are an apologist, even if that is the case he isn't doing that well either. Honestly his timing and accuracy are his biggest issue and have been since he has been in college and just isn't getting better. Winning and game planing don't matter in preseason but he at least needs to look competent. If that is the case he is done already. No it is just a fact......they probably already know what EJ will and wont respond to well and are following a plan with him. Tough Love doesnt work for all players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I posted this in another thread. And don't be deceived by the actual few times we won in preseason, as major concerns about our offenses we present these years. Bills: 2009: preseason 1-4, regular 6-10 2010: preseason 2-2, regular 4-12 2011: preseason 1-3, regular 6-10 2012: preseason 0-4, regular: 6-10 2013: preseason 0-4, regular: 6-10 2014: preseason 1-4, regular: 4-12 No it is just a fact......they probably already know what EJ will and wont respond to well and are following a plan with him. Tough Love doesnt work for all players a leader needs to be tough and handle criticism, if EJ needs to be coddled it's over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Back in college, Manuel wasn't known for being a mentally fluid player, or for processing information quickly, or for having a good handle on the mental aspects of the game. He ran a simplified offense. Going into the NFL, he was considered a "raw" prospect, despite having spent four years on his college team, including two as the starter. I know that you want to mischaracterize the mental side of any player you don't believe in, but the book on EJ was that his mechanics were a work in progress, not his smarts. What happens if EJ doesn't pan out? The same thing that has happened for the last decade and a half. Who is there to compete for his job? Currently? No one. Good post. A lot of Bills fans don't seem to realize that the EJ we have seen is who EJ is, and who he will always be. The Seminole Fanatics in Tallahassee have warned of this. All you have to do is listen. And then watch. O RLY? Paging Ramius. Wow you really are an apologist, even if that is the case he isn't doing that well either. Honestly his timing and accuracy are his biggest issue and have been since he has been in college and just isn't getting better. Winning and game planing don't matter in preseason but he at least needs to look competent. So if he is throwing with the correct timing and the WR falls down or runs the wrong route, something that they are practicing for both parties, this is EJ's fault. Again, Jim Kelly's accuracy, AFTER TWO SEASONS OF PRO BALL, first year in Buffalo: 59.4%. EJ's, as "project QB" thrown into the mix: 58.8%. I know you think Kelso, who spent hours with the film, is an apologist, too. So, why should anyone be prepared to listen to any of your criticisms unless you're going to spend some time with the tape yourself, to share your insights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 a leader needs to be tough and handle criticism, if EJ needs to be coddled it's over. My biggest ray of hope with regard to EJ originates with the fact that you don't like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsguy Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I agree. Not bringing in competition was willful negligence. As was burning the best chance to replace him in next year's draft by trading away our first round pick. That is one hell of a gamble. Incompetence runs rampant at One Bills Drive. The glimmer of hope for Bills fans is that a new owner is imminent. Bills fans can hope for an owner who hires professionals. A serious top notch club CEO or president who hires an experienced GM with a winning track record. The new GM will hire a head coach with the same attributes. The current management is a joke. Russ Brandon has no football pedigree. He is largely an empty suit. Doug Whaley is inexperienced and hasn't proven he is a legit NFL GM. Doug Marrone looks like a high school coach. The coaching staff, with a couple exceptions, is way under-qualified. (i.e. offensive coordinator) New owner = clean house = hope for the future!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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