TXBILLSFAN Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I think this seemingly endless debate comes down to whether you trust and believe that Brandon is the right person to make the changes necessary organizationally to create a consistent winner on and off the field. I don't think he is for a variety of reasons that I've tried in numerous threads and in way too many posts, apparently unsuccessfully, to communicate to all of you. In the end, the on the field product will be the ultimate measurement and the new owner the definitive judge and jury. BTW, I sincerely hope I'm wrong and would glady eat crow on these boards, however, I fear I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 90% of everything attributed to Godwin's law doesn't count as Godwin's law. You know who first made that argument, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 You know who first made that argument, right? Godwin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Opppss Sorry I forgot every Bills loss is EJ's, Marrones, Hackett, Whaley, Brandon, Ralph or Pegulas (just planning ahead) fault in no particular order. YES! I can't believe chandler fumbled because Pegula is cheap.... Dam this team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 No question. The guys been a strong voice with the Bills for the past 15 years, how many winning seasons have they had since he's been here? At some point you have to say, "alright I think its time for you to go." He would've been gone a long, long time ago in most organizations, but I think it was obvious for whatever reason, Ralph put a whole lot of trust into Brandon. I agree that his heart is definitely in it to rite the ship and I think you hit it on the head. The guy is just unqualified. The past decade has proven that. It will come with new ownership and if this team posts up another 6-10 to 7-9 record or worse....At least I hope they do give him the boot if this is the case. He put confidence in him because his franchise is 20th in total revenue with a bad stadium in a bad market!!! I don't want to keep going round and round but he is considered EXTREMELY strong at what he is in charge of. The debate around here is where exactly his power extends to currently. The team's record 12 years ago has as much to do with me as it does him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Just to take it a step further I don't think that it is culture as much as identity. That Saints team played with a swagger. They believed that they could score every time that they touched the football. In addition, the leadership (Payton and Brees) are 2 EXTREMELY confident individuals. The onside kick to start the 2nd half of the Super Bowl was an example. And some of that is pure luck on calculated risks. That ball bounces different, or the duct tape holding drews shoulder together comes apart and suddenly that team with swagger is a bunch of bums. The luck factor is big in getting the momentum going. Ej stays healthy and beats Cleveland or tuel beats kc and we might view this team way different... Edited August 28, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTO Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Marrone was probably pissed off about the acquisition of another crappy QB. He realizes that his reputation is on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Marrone was probably pissed off about the acquisition of another crappy QB. He realizes that his reputation is on the line. Marrone has no reputation, other than a .500 coach in a weak conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 He put confidence in him because his franchise is 20th in total revenue with a bad stadium in a bad market!!! I don't want to keep going round and round but he is considered EXTREMELY strong at what he is in charge of. The debate around here is where exactly his power extends to currently. The team's record 12 years ago has as much to do with me as it does him. I was having a discusion with a buddy at work . Rams fan .He was telling me about some expert analyst were going to trash the orginazition starting with EJ this afternoon. When you posted this the first thing came into my mind was my response. You cant blame 14 years on the current FO. Its just not fair. They might be struggling coming out of the gate and they might fail too. But its not the same regime and pundits who consider that in dialogue should be B word slapped . Marrone has no reputation, other than a .500 coach in a weak conference. Okay. Thats just tossing tomatoes . and shame on you for not knowing more about the Coach . But statistically you are correct, darn it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Kirby - Where are you getting your figures for 20th in Revenue ? The attached Forbes valuation (sort it by revenue) has the Bills ranked 29th out of the 32 teams. In addition, if you take out the incremental revenue they got from the Rogers-Toronto deal (which we ALL agree is bad for the team), they would rank dead last in Revenue. The way I see it, he kept the team profitable by using the shared revenues (just like other teams), selling a home game to Toronto and having a fairly loyal fan base that buys tickets. On the cost side, the Bills keep their expenses low (because they are in bad market, i.e. lower cost of living and have an older stadium, i.e.no debt) and they under spend the salary cap (I know it has nothing to do with winning Bandit)--- this way they remain profitable. So, respectfully, I'm not sure what he's doing that is so miraculous, what am I missing ? http://www.forbes.co...on:desc_search: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 This what TXBILLSFAN should be saying rather than discussing current culture, culture change, and to what degree Russ was involved in selecting EJ. Exactly when did it become your place to decide what someone discusses here? People come here and they discuss. Lay off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 You know who first made that argument, right? Hitler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Hitler? Hitler schmilter, bastard could't win on the road either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Hitler schmilter, bastard could't win on the road either. lol...funny.....no road wins for hitler....well actually he went undefeated until he got defeated... hey....do you suppose there are some forums out there who argue and speculate about who might have won WWII if the teams had exchanged quarterbacks? Edited August 28, 2014 by PolishDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Kirby - Where are you getting your figures for 20th in Revenue ? The attached Forbes valuation (sort it by revenue) has the Bills ranked 29th out of the 32 teams. In addition, if you take out the incremental revenue they got from the Rogers-Toronto deal (which we ALL agree is bad for the team), they would rank dead last in Revenue. The way I see it, he kept the team profitable by using the shared revenues (just like other teams), selling a home game to Toronto and having a fairly loyal fan base that buys tickets. On the cost side, the Bills keep their expenses low (because they are in bad market, i.e. lower cost of living and have an older stadium, i.e.no debt) and they under spend the salary cap (I know it has nothing to do with winning Bandit)--- this way they remain profitable. So, respectfully, I'm not sure what he's doing that is so miraculous, what am I missing ? http://www.forbes.co...on:desc_search: http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-15/dallas-is-most-valuable-nfl-team-at-2-3-billion-on-forbes-list.html I guess that it is 22 if my math is right (I did say like 20). We are not talking about expenses, strictly revenue generated. They are also projected this year to be between $270-$280M with the stadium improvements. That will put them in the middle of the pack. You can continue to hate but do you believe that the Buffalo Bills playing in RWS should be in the middle of the pack in terms of revenue? EDIT: If you use $275 (probably a low end estimate because their ST base ended higher than anticipated) they would be 14th in revenue if everyone else remains flat. Obviously SF will rise with their new stadium as will others but you get the point. Edited August 28, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-15/dallas-is-most-valuable-nfl-team-at-2-3-billion-on-forbes-list.html I guess that it is 22 if my math is right (I did say like 20). We are not talking about expenses, strictly revenue generated. They are also projected this year to be between $270-$280M with the stadium improvements. That will put them in the middle of the pack. You can continue to hate but do you believe that the Buffalo Bills playing in RWS should be in the middle of the pack in terms of revenue? No need to call me a hater, I'm trying to have a calm and civil discussion and get to the bottom of why you and so many others are so impressed with Brandon. Your data (that you linked) is a year old, so they were 22nd in the 8/2013 Forbes which would be based on 2012 season and now are 29th in the 8/2014 Forbes which is based on the 2013 season. So, I think my conclusion is still valid, they ranked 29th last year and would have ranked 32nd without selling that one game to Toronto. Again, keeping the discussion to Revenue only, that's not too impressive from my point of view. If they indeed go up to the middle of the pack, without having to sell a home game, I think that would be an accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Malooga Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 All the reports and inside information I have read said Whaley picked EJ. Buddy picking EJ would be nonsense. That's what this report says. http://tinyurl.com/52ppc Um, what just happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 No need to call me a hater, I'm trying to have a calm and civil discussion and get to the bottom of why you and so many others are so impressed with Brandon. Your data (that you linked) is a year old, so they were 22nd in the 8/2013 Forbes which would be based on 2012 season and now are 29th in the 8/2014 Forbes which is based on the 2013 season. So, I think my conclusion is still valid, they ranked 29th last year and would have ranked 32nd without selling that one game to Toronto. Again, keeping the discussion to Revenue only, that's not too impressive from my point of view. If they indeed go up to the middle of the pack, without having to sell a home game, I think that would be an accomplishment. If they kept the Toronto game you can add another $8M or so (used to be $9.75 by my calculation). The improvements are projected to put them anywhere from $270M-$280M which as we'd both agree would be a success. Their business operations are run extremely well as they have a limited number of revenue opportunities compared to their peers. Imagine if they got $5m a year in naming rights? Imagine if they had the VIP areas that Jacksonville has, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 If they kept the Toronto game you can add another $8M or so (used to be $9.75 by my calculation). The improvements are projected to put them anywhere from $270M-$280M which as we'd both agree would be a success. Their business operations are run extremely well as they have a limited number of revenue opportunities compared to their peers. Imagine if they got $5m a year in naming rights? Imagine if they had the VIP areas that Jacksonville has, etc... But, you agree, you don't want them to keep the Toronto game, right? As for naming rights, I guess it would be poor taste to try and change it now. You should also keep in mind that those other teams in the mid 20's will see their revenue grow year to year so, I think best case given your numbers is for the Bills to be in the mid-20's in 2014, but even that would be respectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 lol...funny.....no road wins for hitler....well actually he went undefeated until he got defeated... I always knew the Patriots were like Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts