RuntheDamnBall Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Personally, I do not see the retrofit as an option. I think that the Bills need to rescale the stadium. They cannot have their best locations being sold at $70 a game or whatever they are. It will be really hard to do that at RWS. They really need a fresh start to get that more in line with the rest of the league. I get what you're saying. At the end of the day with what they are spending already at RWS, the end result seems both wasteful and expensive, but I imagine this will all depend on what kind of owner we get. If a guy like Pegula or Golisano is really sold on owning the Bills, and not just for the max potential profits ownership can generate, it might well be that RWS stays - longer than we think, anyway. I think anyone else is a wild-card and I would bet that a new stadium would be part of their conditions for staying. I agree if jBJ's bid is backed by Toronto monies it is safe to assume the intent is to move to Toronto as soon as they are able. Anyone believing that things have changed is making a huge mistake. I'm right there with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I can certainly agree with all of that. I am still hoping for Pegula followed by Golisano. I'm in the tank for Gundlach, but these two would be great too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I get what you're saying. At the end of the day with what they are spending already at RWS, the end result seems both wasteful and expensive, but I imagine this will all depend on what kind of owner we get. If a guy like Pegula or Golisano is really sold on owning the Bills, and not just for the max potential profits ownership can generate, it might well be that RWS stays - longer than we think, anyway. I think anyone else is a wild-card and I would bet that a new stadium would be part of their conditions for staying. My guess is that if it is Pegula he will want to be downtown. He will have his own little monopoly at some point. He will own the restaurants, bars, parking, hotels, etc... He will pour his own money into it and in exchange receive tax breaks to off set it. He will be collecting every dime that comes through there!! I agree it's not so much a fake plan as a plan with an out. If their thoughts were to leave after the lease, this is where they will fall back on we tried but could not make it work. No financial plan will be required to be rock solid 7-8 years down the road, they can't be as nothing is certain. I agree if jBJ's bid is backed by Toronto monies it is safe to assume the intent is to move to Toronto as soon as they are able. Anyone believing that things have changed is making a huge mistake. I have not heard their WNY plan but I can assure you that both the team and commissioner have and are comfortable with it. It is different than what they originally planned but what they wanted to do is not an option so they adapted. They will make sure legally that this plan is what is enacted. Edited July 17, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 My guess is that if it is Pegula he will want to be downtown. He will have his own little monopoly at some point. He will own the restaurants, bars, parking, hotels, etc... He will pour his own money into it and in exchange receive tax breaks to off set it. He will be collecting every dime that comes through there!! Possibly, and maybe I'm looking at it in a very Pollyanna way, but it just doesn't seem to me that money is the driver for Pegula in the way that it might have been when he was starting his energy businesses. I'm not going to say that he isn't going to look to make healthy profits, but he's said himself that if he wanted max return he would just keep pumping his resources into natural gas. If things move downtown, you would think that this is part of a goal, at least in part, to revitalize downtown and not just to become king of downtown. Really, the guy has already won the Monopoly game, and he is just getting to reap the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Possibly, and maybe I'm looking at it in a very Pollyanna way, but it just doesn't seem to me that money is the driver for Pegula in the way that it might have been when he was starting his energy businesses. I'm not going to say that he isn't going to look to make healthy profits, but he's said himself that if he wanted max return he would just keep pumping his resources into natural gas. If things move downtown, you would think that this is part of a goal, at least in part, to revitalize downtown and not just to become king of downtown. Really, the guy has already won the Monopoly game, and he is just getting to reap the benefits. You are 100% right. That guy already has more money (cash) than he and his family can spend in 10 lifetimes. I think that he legitimately cares about the city and the people. At the same time, he can have his cake and eat it too. Pegula is the ideal buyer for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoodooOperator Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 With two strikes against me as a newbie and a non-Buffalonian, I would argue that anywhere but downtown/waterfront for the new stadium would be settling for second. Best regards, Captain Obvious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 So now the Toronto group that had invested a hundred + million dollars into the dream of moving the Bills to Toronto via the Toronto Series and has planned for and dreamed of this opportunity for a solid decade (if not more) has suddenly become devoted to keeping the Bills in WNY? Sorry but I do not buy it, no matter what they say or put in writing. Lawyers exist to weasel out of contracts that are suddenly "untenable." Once they have their hands on the team as owners it is over for WNY in terms of the Bills. Maybe not right away, but they WILL be exploring every option available to them to move. There will only be them and the NFL owners to deal with then, and many (Jerry Jones types) will be more than receptive to their "we just can't survive here!" stories. I believe that they are selling that they have a "plan." But as we know, plans change. Who gets married looking to get a divorce? It does happen sometimes (gold diggers) but they always smile big and say their vows on the wedding day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I loled at "chipmunk faced traitor formerly known as Jaws" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 So now the Toronto group that had invested a hundred + million dollars into the dream of moving the Bills to Toronto via the Toronto Series and has planned for and dreamed of this opportunity for a solid decade (if not more) has suddenly become devoted to keeping the Bills in WNY? Sorry but I do not buy it, no matter what they say or put in writing. Lawyers exist to weasel out of contracts that are suddenly "untenable." Once they have their hands on the team as owners it is over for WNY in terms of the Bills. Maybe not right away, but they WILL be exploring every option available to them to move. There will only be them and the NFL owners to deal with then, and many (Jerry Jones types) will be more than receptive to their "we just can't survive here!" stories. I believe that they are selling that they have a "plan." But as we know, plans change. Who gets married looking to get a divorce? It does happen sometimes (gold diggers) but they always smile big and say their vows on the wedding day. I dreamed of being a professional baseball player too. I worked my whole life towards it but realized that it was not happening so the course changed. The skepticism is fair and warranted. I am just trying to tell you what I have heard from some very, very, very, very, very reliable sources.. The team will NOT be leaving WNY. That ship has already sailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 So now the Toronto group that had invested a hundred + million dollars into the dream of moving the Bills to Toronto via the Toronto Series and has planned for and dreamed of this opportunity for a solid decade (if not more) has suddenly become devoted to keeping the Bills in WNY? Sorry but I do not buy it, no matter what they say or put in writing. Lawyers exist to weasel out of contracts that are suddenly "untenable." Once they have their hands on the team as owners it is over for WNY in terms of the Bills. Maybe not right away, but they WILL be exploring every option available to them to move. There will only be them and the NFL owners to deal with then, and many (Jerry Jones types) will be more than receptive to their "we just can't survive here!" stories. I believe that they are selling that they have a "plan." But as we know, plans change. Who gets married looking to get a divorce? It does happen sometimes (gold diggers) but they always smile big and say their vows on the wedding day. This isn't a marriage, and it isn't an issue of "money talks". What you're talking about is flat out illegal, irrespective of how many high-priced lawyers get involved. The point is this: just saying "we have a plan" isn't enough; if they don't put in writing that they're keeping the team here, they won't win the bid (if I'm understanding what I've heard correctly, which is pretty much exactly what Kirby heard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I dreamed of being a professional baseball player too. I worked my whole life towards it but realized that it was not happening so the course changed. The skepticism is fair and warranted. I am just trying to tell you what I have heard from some very, very, very, very, very reliable sources.. The team will NOT be leaving WNY. That ship has already sailed. I am not questioning your sources; I just get worried anytime someone someone says "it's a done deal" in regards to anything involving Buffalo. It's a beautiful day, so maybe I'll hop in my car, cross the new Peace Bridge and watch Buffalo's MLB team play an afternoon game! I am pessimistic about their true intentions, but I do appreciate your information and posts because it makes me feel a little bit better about the Bills staying in WNY, so thank you! This isn't a marriage, and it isn't an issue of "money talks". What you're talking about is flat out illegal, irrespective of how many high-priced lawyers get involved. The point is this: just saying "we have a plan" isn't enough; if they don't put in writing that they're keeping the team here, they won't win the bid (if I'm understanding what I've heard correctly, which is pretty much exactly what Kirby heard). Buy the team, and you have 5-6 years to figure out a way to get WNY/NY State to say no to YOU, thus justifying your move North. In any event, if all this is the case, why would the trust not pick Pegula? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Buy the team, and you have 5-6 years to figure out a way to get WNY/NY State to say no to YOU, thus justifying your move North. In any event, if all this is the case, why would the trust not pick Pegula? Who says they wouldn't? The point here isn't that any of this information guarantees any one party to be the next owner...the point is that the trust has the discretion to pick who they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Who says they wouldn't? The point here isn't that any of this information guarantees any one party to be the next owner...the point is that the trust has the discretion to pick who they want. I know, it just seems odd that Bon Jovi/MLSE are even considered strong bidders at this point if people like Pegula and Golisano are ready to bid big. I guess it helps drive up the price that Pegula or Golisano would pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I loled at "chipmunk faced traitor formerly known as Jaws" that was the nicest thing i could have called him. i couldn't say what i wanted to say without offending his mama and the whole Polish community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I know, it just seems odd that Bon Jovi/MLSE are even considered strong bidders at this point if people like Pegula and Golisano are ready to bid big. I guess it helps drive up the price that Pegula or Golisano would pay. Right on...it's still a business transaction, and so the trust is still responsible for getting the best bid that they can possibly get (within certain parameters). I still think they'll pick the buyer they feel will be the best owner; no reason to let that preclude them from driving up the price a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 For example, if MLSE wins: There is no reason the Toronto Bills couldn't play in NF, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 For example, if MLSE wins: There is no reason the Toronto Bills couldn't play in NF, NY way late to this party, in part because i've been on vacation. but: wha?!? jw I know, it just seems odd that Bon Jovi/MLSE are even considered strong bidders at this point if people like Pegula and Golisano are ready to bid big. I guess it helps drive up the price that Pegula or Golisano would pay. they're considered strong bidders because they are considered to be ready to make a strong pitch. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) way late to this party, in part because i've been on vacation. but: wha?!? jw they're considered strong bidders because they are considered to be ready to make a strong pitch. jw My point about the "Toronto Bills" playing in NF, NY is that if the Bon Jovi/MLSE they might see that as a way to accomplish their goals AND keep the team in WNY The name change would come a few years in... marketing, of course! A better way to capture Toronto $$ and the team is physically in WNY Edited July 17, 2014 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 MLSE/Bonny Bon Bon would need a sugar daddy though, right? No math has them really being that competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 My point about the "Toronto Bills" playing in NF, NY is that if the Bon Jovi/MLSE they might see that as a way to accomplish their goals AND keep the team in WNY The name change would come a few years in... marketing, of course! A better way to capture Toronto $$ and the team is physically in WNY Let me get this straight: they'd change the name to "Toronto" from "Buffalo" for the sake of capturing more revenue from the Toronto area? So, in other words, they're going to tell Toronto fans that this is their team, despite the fact that the team is still located in WNY, and expect that Toronto fans will say to themselves "hey, they named that team that still doesn't play here after our city, even though it is over 80 miles away from us and across an international border...we should be fans of this team!"... I'm sorry if that sounds over the top, but honestly, does that sound like a good plan to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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