Bills acquire WR mike Williams

[Fan in Chicago]

 

Now consider it only cost a 6th round pick... Name the last 6th round pick that has done anything in the last decade for this team?? Call me crazy, but I'd much rather have Williams then spending the 9th overall pick on Mike Evans. I will take proven NFL production every single time over a rookie who is a total unknown. Remember spending a 2nd round pick on James Hardy?... that's just once recent example. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

 

 

Have been out of the country and unable to post much, but just to put things in perspective, here are our recent 6th rounders:

 

2013 Dustin Hopkins K

2012 Mike Asper G

2011 Chris White LB

2010 Arthur Moats, Danny Batten LB

2009 Cary Harris DB

2008 Xavier Omon RB (Though that year we also selected Stevie Johnson and Demetress Bell in the 7th round)

2007 JOhn Wendling DB

 

This trade runs a very low risk of having lost out on a impact player in 2014 draft (yea yea, I know about past history not being an indicator of future success ....)

[Doc]

Is there any way that Marrone could have talked to Mike Williams prior to the trade? Maybe given permission to by TB? To see where he's at in his development?

I'm assuming that Williams' brother stabbing him was the impetus for the Bucs looking to move him and/or Marrone looking to get/help him. In any case, it's a 1-year tryout at $1.8M and if it doesn't work out, all that was lost was a 6th rounder.

[Hazed and Amuzed]

Personally I take issue with anyone named Mike Williams in a Bills uniform. Bad memories.

[finn]

The consensus on this board is that the Mike Williams signing was a good one. Low risk, what do we have to lose, etc. I disagree. I also don't like some of the other signings and departures this off season.

 

Marv Levy disappointed us when he came back as GM, in part because he seemed to have forgotten the principles that helped build the championship years. Some of the key ones: Build through the draft, keep your own players and, especially, draft for character. The Superbowl Bills weren't just talented; they were tough. That famous resilience wasn't an accident: it was the result of the team's drafting and coaching philosophy. Talent is everywhere in the NFL. What's rare is team chemistry, the kind that brings out the best in the more marginal players (like Ray Benchley and Don Beebe), keeps the marquee players from becoming prima donnas and helps the team find the grit needed to win tough games and come back from tough losses.

 

No risk? Nothing to lose? You build your team with slackers, losers, criminals and there's no risk? No problem with the headlines about the latest charges, denials, accusations? No risk of locker room strife, sniping, feuds? No chance that the hardest-working Bills won't resent the work habits of perpetual underachievers like Keith Rivers and Chris Williams?

 

Yes, you can point to examples of shady characters who make good, and slackers making good with a change of scene. But the exceptions prove the rule that character DOES matter over time. These signings are cheap, and I don't mean money wise. They're the moves of a loser franchise trying to do it the easy way.

[thebandit27]

The consensus on this board is that the Mike Williams signing was a good one. Low risk, what do we have to lose, etc. I disagree. I also don't like some of the other signings and departures this off season.

 

Marv Levy disappointed us when he came back as GM, in part because he seemed to have forgotten the principles that helped build the championship years. Some of the key ones: Build through the draft, keep your own players and, especially, draft for character. The Superbowl Bills weren't just talented; they were tough. That famous resilience wasn't an accident: it was the result of the team's drafting and coaching philosophy. Talent is everywhere in the NFL. What's rare is team chemistry, the kind that brings out the best in the more marginal players (like Ray Benchley and Don Beebe), keeps the marquee players from becoming prima donnas and helps the team find the grit needed to win tough games and come back from tough losses.

 

No risk? Nothing to lose? You build your team with slackers, losers, criminals and there's no risk? No problem with the headlines about the latest charges, denials, accusations? No risk of locker room strife, sniping, feuds? No chance that the hardest-working Bills won't resent the work habits of perpetual underachievers like Keith Rivers and Chris Williams?

 

Yes, you can point to examples of shady characters who make good, and slackers making good with a change of scene. But the exceptions prove the rule that character DOES matter over time. These signings are cheap, and I don't mean money wise. They're the moves of a loser franchise trying to do it the easy way.

 

You do make some fair points; I think that you're confusing "football character", which is what Marv always championed, with personal character.

 

Kiko and Brandon Spikes are great examples; questionable personal character, but nobody questions their football character (vis-a-vis work ethic, practice habits, passion, etc.)

 

I'm not dismissing your point, as I remains to be seen what the results will be.

[YoloinOhio]

I'm assuming that Williams' brother stabbing him was the impetus for the Bucs looking to move him and/or Marrone looking to get/help him. In any case, it's a 1-year tryout at $1.8M and if it doesn't work out, all that was lost was a 6th rounder.

From what I read about the "stabbing," they called it "horseplay" and it was just a minor laceration on his thigh. I have no idea if that is true, but that was the report.

[NoSaint]

I think it's interesting that they are going after these hometown kids, like Williams and Graham. It almost makes me wonder if this is intentional, and they think local guys are more likely to come, stay, and buy in/be happy and productive in WNY. Maybe that means they want Mack too for that reason.

 

It's two guys and one of them was far from plan A. I think its coincidence, or just an added little perk

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

Man, I'm late to the party. But I did have the chance to look things over and deliberate before I joined in the fray.

 

I love the move. Because of his contract set-up, he has a very low number for this year, and that has the very last of his guaranteed money. If Over the Cap is right (and they are usually pretty good) while his contract number is high (6.8 million cap hit), he can be cut without a dime of dead money. This means that A) He has a Pro Bowl season that justifies paying that much or B)He under-performs or is average and we cut him or C) He is average and we renegotiate his contract. In any case, we add a veteran to a position that sorely needed one.

 

For people who are saying "He's not a "open even when covered"" guy, watch this reel from 2012:

 

Admittedly, that is a lot of Vincent Jackson, but Williams knows how to position his body well to make the catch and has a truly dangerous vertical jump. Looking over his measurables he reminds me a lot of Sammy Watkins. He looks a hair slower (4.5 s to 4.4) while being a hair bigger (6'2 rounded as opposed to 6'1 rounded).

 

All for the cost of a 6th round pick.

[NoSaint]

From what I read about the "stabbing," they called it "horseplay" and it was just a minor laceration on his thigh. I have no idea if that is true, but that was the report.

 

I think more so it's the volume and consistency of the "maybe it was a mistake, or just a minor transgression" issues. After awhile you lose benefit of the doubt and accidents/misunderstandings become poor judgement and recklessness

 

I have no idea how far back they date but we can trace similar problems all the way to his early days at Syracuse. That's a rough track record when viewed as a totality of events even if you can explain why any one of them might not be that bad

Edited April 5, 2014 by NoSaint

[YoloinOhio]

The consensus on this board is that the Mike Williams signing was a good one. Low risk, what do we have to lose, etc. I disagree. I also don't like some of the other signings and departures this off season.

 

Marv Levy disappointed us when he came back as GM, in part because he seemed to have forgotten the principles that helped build the championship years. Some of the key ones: Build through the draft, keep your own players and, especially, draft for character. The Superbowl Bills weren't just talented; they were tough. That famous resilience wasn't an accident: it was the result of the team's drafting and coaching philosophy. Talent is everywhere in the NFL. What's rare is team chemistry, the kind that brings out the best in the more marginal players (like Ray Benchley and Don Beebe), keeps the marquee players from becoming prima donnas and helps the team find the grit needed to win tough games and come back from tough losses.

 

No risk? Nothing to lose? You build your team with slackers, losers, criminals and there's no risk? No problem with the headlines about the latest charges, denials, accusations? No risk of locker room strife, sniping, feuds? No chance that the hardest-working Bills won't resent the work habits of perpetual underachievers like Keith Rivers and Chris Williams?

 

Yes, you can point to examples of shady characters who make good, and slackers making good with a change of scene. But the exceptions prove the rule that character DOES matter over time. These signings are cheap, and I don't mean money wise. They're the moves of a loser franchise trying to do it the easy way.

I see your points... but I also think that if this was the Pats they would be praised as brilliant coaches for taking on talent that may have issues when other teams would take the easy way out and not do that, preferring to only deal with players who are squeaky clean. Two ways to look at it.

 

I think more so it's the volume and consistency of the "maybe it was a mistake, or just a minor transgression" issues. After awhile you lose benefit of the doubt and accidents/misunderstandings become poor judgement and recklessness

 

I have no idea how far back they date but we can trace similar problems all the way to his early days at Syracuse. That's a rough track record when viewed as a totality of events even if you can explain why any one of them might not be that bad

I agree, hence the low cost of a 6th rounder. But interesting that the Bucs gave him a pretty big contract just last Fall so you would think they vetted him pretty well and felt comfortable with that investment, That said... that GM is gone, lol. If Marrone wasn't so familiar with him I'd be more skeptical. He is vouching for the kid in a big way. They have an easy out if he screws up and, for all intents and purposes, this is MW's chance to earn the money on his deal. If he gets cut for screwing up, he can be cut and no more contract - he would end up signing a 1 year cheap deal somewhere else. i would expect him to be highly motivated.

[NoSaint]

I see your points... but I also think that if this was the Pats they would be praised as brilliant coaches for taking on talent that may have issues when other teams would take the easy way out and not do that, preferring to only deal with players who are squeaky clean. Two ways to look at it.

 

I think the difference is whether those guys are your foundation, or just taking a shot on a guy you don't really need or the icing on the cake if you will

 

Additionally the pats do it to navigate tricky cap situations - not the case here. When you have 1.8m in cap space it's a more impressive talent add than if you have 15m and a wealth of options... If that makes sense...

 

That said, i think this is a good shot but I hope we keep these shots limited to a handful of guys. There have been a lot of teams that assemble great talent and have no "team" to show for it and don't get anywhere.

Edited April 5, 2014 by NoSaint

[Hazed and Amuzed]

I see your points... but I also think that if this was the Pats they would be praised as brilliant coaches for taking on talent that may have issues when other teams would take the easy way out and not do that, preferring to only deal with players who are squeaky clean. Two ways to look at it.

 

Not just the Pats but the Cowboys dynasty and the 90's Bills were full of miscreants as well. They're football players, not school teachers. They're grown men that in a lot of cases came from a poor upbringing. People judge and expect others to grow up under their own guidelines. I'd like to see some of the judgemental people grow up in a gang infested neighborhood with a split up family and crime the common day norm, I'd like to see what those people would do with a million dollars when the turned 20.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Not just the Pats but the Cowboys dynasty and the 90's Bills were full of miscreants as well. They're football players, not school teachers. They're grown men that in a lot of cases came from a poor upbringing. People judge and expect others to grow up under their own guidelines. I'd like to see some of the judgemental people grow up in a gang infested neighborhood with a split up family and crime the common day norm, I'd like to see what those people would do with a million dollars when the turned 20.

 

And that can get you the cowboys of the 90s or the bengals of the 00s (or lions the last few years for an example close to our staff). It's a delicate balance layering these guys in. I like this move and the front office hasn't shown they are going to go tooooo far but I think some posters are all for 53 cheap talented troublemakers instead of 48 great guys that can help look after after a couple of talented guys that can be a handful

[YoloinOhio]

I think the difference is whether those guys are your foundation, or just taking a shot on a guy you don't really need or the icing on the cake if you will

 

Additionally the pats do it to navigate tricky cap situations - not the case here. When you have 1.8m in cap space it's a more impressive talent add than if you have 15m and a wealth of options... If that makes sense...

 

That said, i think this is a good shot but I hope we keep these shots limited to a handful of guys. There have been a lot of teams that assemble great talent and have no "team" to show for it and don't get anywhere.

I think (hope) the Bills are planning on using some of that cap space to lock up Dareus and Glenn, two guys who are the foundation, drafted and developed by the team, rather than bringing in FAs. Other than the LG, there wasn't anyone in FA this year I was upset they didn't get based on what those guys were paid and how they would have fit with the team. And I won't evaluate the LG completely until I see what actually happens in the draft and on the field. I agree that you take "flyers" on guys like Spikes and MW but don't invest heavily. I think that is exactly what they are doing based on the contracts for 2014. They will need to really prove themselves on and off the field.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Win-win situation here. I can't imagine why anyone would feel badly about this move. Worst case scenario...he behaves like a jackass and gets cut. He has to know that this will likely be his last chance.

 

I also think Buffalo will still look to add a WR in the middle rounds of the draft. There are some good ones that will be there in the 3rd-4th IMO. Right now, my hope is that Jake Matthews falls to us at 9.

[Hazed and Amuzed]

 

 

And that can get you the cowboys of the 90s or the bengals of the 00s (or lions the last few years for an example close to our staff). It's a delicate balance layering these guys in. I like this move and the front office hasn't shown they are going to go tooooo far but I think some posters are all for 53 cheap talented troublemakers instead of 48 great guys that can help look after after a couple of talented guys that can be a handful

 

Agreed. I just get irritated by those who jump on their high horse, they usually can't relate to anyone in a different social setting. I don't obviously want a team if "thugs" or "criminals" but I won't exclude or judge them either, not mine or anyone else's place. If an individual can help the Bills win, I'm all for it.

[NoSaint]

Win-win situation here. I can't imagine why anyone would feel badly about this move. Worst case scenario...he behaves like a jackass and gets cut. He has to know that this will likely be his last chance.

 

I also think Buffalo will still look to add a WR in the middle rounds of the draft. There are some good ones that will be there in the 3rd-4th IMO. Right now, my hope is that Jake Matthews falls to us at 9.

 

See I think this ends our shots at WRs, unless we are staring at a premiere one. I think we have plenty of competition for spots 5-6, and unless they see a #1 it's not happening this year,

 

Your looking at

 

Stevie

Williams

Wood

Goodwin

Easley as relative locks

 

With Barden, tj, and a variety of others fighting for that 6th slot... A don't think a 4th rounder does a ton for the competition there unless someone really falls that they LOVE.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

 

 

See I think this ends our shots at WRs, unless we are staring at a premiere one. I think we have plenty of competition for spots 5-6, and unless they see a #1 it's not happening this year,

 

Your looking at

 

Stevie

Williams

Wood

Goodwin

Easley as relative locks

 

With Barden, tj, and a variety of others fighting for that 6th slot... A don't think a 4th rounder does a ton for the competition there unless someone really falls that they LOVE.

 

I don't know...guys like Abbrederis, Coleman and Latimer might be tough to pass up. Latimer came on a visit to OBD, and Coleman fits that "open when he isn't open" role. Not a huge fan of Barden, and I don't think Graham makes the team.

[TXBILLSFAN]

The consensus on this board is that the Mike Williams signing was a good one. Low risk, what do we have to lose, etc. I disagree. I also don't like some of the other signings and departures this off season.

 

Marv Levy disappointed us when he came back as GM, in part because he seemed to have forgotten the principles that helped build the championship years. Some of the key ones: Build through the draft, keep your own players and, especially, draft for character. The Superbowl Bills weren't just talented; they were tough. That famous resilience wasn't an accident: it was the result of the team's drafting and coaching philosophy. Talent is everywhere in the NFL. What's rare is team chemistry, the kind that brings out the best in the more marginal players (like Ray Benchley and Don Beebe), keeps the marquee players from becoming prima donnas and helps the team find the grit needed to win tough games and come back from tough losses.

 

No risk? Nothing to lose? You build your team with slackers, losers, criminals and there's no risk? No problem with the headlines about the latest charges, denials, accusations? No risk of locker room strife, sniping, feuds? No chance that the hardest-working Bills won't resent the work habits of perpetual underachievers like Keith Rivers and Chris Williams?

 

Yes, you can point to examples of shady characters who make good, and slackers making good with a change of scene. But the exceptions prove the rule that character DOES matter over time. These signings are cheap, and I don't mean money wise. They're the moves of a loser franchise trying to do it the easy way.

The Bills of the early 90's were hardly choir boys -- they use to have some pretty epic parties in Jimbo's house -- I'm NOT comparing the two groups because I know a lot less about this team off the field than the one in the early 90s, but suffice it to say, the early 90's bunch knew how to party -- but they also knew when and how to work.

[thewildrabbit]

The consensus on this board is that the Mike Williams signing was a good one. Low risk, what do we have to lose, etc. I disagree. I also don't like some of the other signings and departures this off season.

 

Marv Levy disappointed us when he came back as GM, in part because he seemed to have forgotten the principles that helped build the championship years. Some of the key ones: Build through the draft, keep your own players and, especially, draft for character. The Superbowl Bills weren't just talented; they were tough. That famous resilience wasn't an accident: it was the result of the team's drafting and coaching philosophy. Talent is everywhere in the NFL. What's rare is team chemistry, the kind that brings out the best in the more marginal players (like Ray Benchley and Don Beebe), keeps the marquee players from becoming prima donnas and helps the team find the grit needed to win tough games and come back from tough losses.

 

No risk? Nothing to lose? You build your team with slackers, losers, criminals and there's no risk? No problem with the headlines about the latest charges, denials, accusations? No risk of locker room strife, sniping, feuds? No chance that the hardest-working Bills won't resent the work habits of perpetual underachievers like Keith Rivers and Chris Williams?

 

Yes, you can point to examples of shady characters who make good, and slackers making good with a change of scene. But the exceptions prove the rule that character DOES matter over time. These signings are cheap, and I don't mean money wise. They're the moves of a loser franchise trying to do it the easy way.

While I agree with your premise to a point, I disagree with some points.

 

Marv Levy was the exact same Marv as he was back in the day, as one of the first things he did as GM was to jettison a known "me first", "mo money" type guy in S Lawyer Milloy. Even now, fans must realize he was at the mercy of one of the very worst scouting departments, free agent scouts in Modrak & Guy. Levy didn't bring in any bad character types afaik.

 

 

My take on why the Bills are making some of the moves they are making is because they see a very small window to "win now", a window that could be closing very quickly with the sale of the team to new owners. This team needs to win, and win now. Also, this FO has made it clear that they will give players a "second chance" to prove themselves. The Bills have several clear positions they need to fill, with a limited amount of early draft picks to fill those positions. So why not fill them with proven players that need another chance?

 

Lets not forget that any new ownership might just sweep the entire org clean to rid it of this losing culture. This coaching staff, GM, and front office must realize they could be on borrowed time if they can't field a winning team this fall.

 

The Bills knew they needed another proven top WR to pair with Stevie Johnson or even to replace him. The Bills have had talks with the Houston Texans about trading up for that #1 overall pick. Now, those talks could have been for Sammy Watkins. This move basically fills a known need for a good WR at a very low price. If it works out, it will indeed help the Bills offense a great deal.