Deranged Rhino Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/21/us/arizona-anti-gay-bill/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 *Fixed the link... this is what I get for linking something from CNN. Edited February 22, 2014 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Linky no worky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Neither are my quote buttons...TSW wall will not work for me on one computer but will on my Mac. Apologies for the busted link. Should work now. Edited February 22, 2014 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 The flip-side of that is the right to refuse service to Republicans because you're a Democrat. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) The flip-side of that is the right to refuse service to Republicans because you're a Democrat. Good luck with that. No chance in hell the Governor signs the bill. But the mere fact it got that far is hilarious. EDIT / Addendum You're a secular history student, here's an honest question. How often are organized religions on the "right" side of the world's social issues of the day when we look back? What would you put the percentages at? Having done no thinking on this, it just popped into my mind, but all the big social issues, at least when it comes to civil rights, organized relgion usually begins with a stance that's protective of the current social constructions and injustices. Rarely are they at the forefront of social change. Slavery, women's rights, ethnic cleansing / genocide, individual rights... they're always sucking hind tit when it comes to getting it right on these issues. At least from our modern perspective looking back. Edited February 22, 2014 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) I have no issue with the bill, as I believe in the freedom of association. However, I would use my own freedom of association to deny any business refusing to do business with homosexuals my own dollars, and I would vocally discourage others from doing business with them as well. Edited February 22, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 I have no issue with the bill, as I believe in the freedom of association. However, I would use my own freedom of association to deny any business refusing to do business with homosexuals my own dollars, and I would vocally discourage others from doing business with them as well. Politically and rationally I tend to agree with that. You're more of a strict libertarian than me, so it makes sense. It's more hilarious to me how out of touch with reality that state continues to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 No chance in hell the Governor signs the bill. But the mere fact it got that far is hilarious. EDIT / Addendum You're a secular history student, here's an honest question. How often are organized religions on the "right" side of the world's social issues of the day when we look back? What would you put the percentages at? Having done no thinking on this, it just popped into my mind, but all the big social issues, at least when it comes to civil rights, organized relgion usually begins with a stance that's protective of the current social constructions and injustices. Rarely are they at the forefront of social change. Slavery, women's rights, ethnic cleansing / genocide, individual rights... they're always sucking hind tit when it comes to getting it right on these issues. At least from our modern perspective looking back. It depends on your definition of "right side." Generally, I'd say that the older and more established a religion is, the more conservative it is about social change. Early Judaism, Christianity, and Islam were extremely liberal for the times in which they were established. But only generally. I can think of a lot of exceptions - Mongolian shamanism was very inclusive (religiously speaking) when Genghis Khan established their empire. Buddhism to the best of my knowledge has always been open (or maybe "apathetic" is a better word). Generally, though, I'd say a good rule of thumb is that the older and more established a religion is, the more resistant to social change it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 It depends on your definition of "right side." Generally, I'd say that the older and more established a religion is, the more conservative it is about social change. Early Judaism, Christianity, and Islam were extremely liberal for the times in which they were established. But only generally. I can think of a lot of exceptions - Mongolian shamanism was very inclusive (religiously speaking) when Genghis Khan established their empire. Buddhism to the best of my knowledge has always been open (or maybe "apathetic" is a better word). Generally, though, I'd say a good rule of thumb is that the older and more established a religion is, the more resistant to social change it is. That makes sense. By its very nature, religion is tradition, which is why the majority of devout (insert any religion here) tend to identify themselves with the conservative side of whatever culture they're in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Unless you live in Arizona, why does anyone care? I've been run out of a couple of redneck bars inn NY because my friends and I didn't fit in. I didn't go running around complaining that Joe Bob Bumphucks didn't like the WOPs. A group of people don't want to do business with you, find someone that will. Hell, I live in a state that just passed a law that will literally give school-aged boys the ability to use the girls locker room, and all they have to do is sign a piece of paper that says they're really a chick. An entire law. Signed by Jerry Brown. But let's mock Arizona cuz they don't like gays. Different people pushing what they can based on their audience. Don't like it, leave. Or STFU. What's so hard to see about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Unless you live in Arizona, why does anyone care? I've been run out of a couple of redneck bars inn NY because my friends and I didn't fit in. I didn't go running around complaining that Joe Bob Bumphucks didn't like the WOPs. A group of people don't want to do business with you, find someone that will. Hell, I live in a state that just passed a law that will literally give school-aged boys the ability to use the girls locker room, and all they have to do is sign a piece of paper that says they're really a chick. An entire law. Signed by Jerry Brown. But let's mock Arizona cuz they don't like gays. Different people pushing what they can based on their audience. Don't like it, leave. Or STFU. What's so hard to see about that? Worst obnoxious poseurs- yeah I feel for you guys I'm sure get run out of a lot of places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Right. If you're straight, try walking in to a gay bar and see how welcoming they are of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Worst obnoxious poseurs- yeah I feel for you guys I'm sure get run out of a lot of places. So you've actually sat down with LA and his buddies and had a beer? Cool. When? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Worst obnoxious poseurs- yeah I feel for you guys I'm sure get run out of a lot of places. Pick a nit and miss the point. Who would have expected that from such a stellar independent thinker as yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 This seems more reactionary than anything else. We've heard a few of these stories, which are similarly ridiculous: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/01/21/christian-bakery-guilty-violating-civil-rights-lesbian-couple/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) Say two queers come in a conservative/religious AZ bakery and want a wedding cake. Can't the business just serve them, yet phuck up the order and keep on phucking up the order beyond all belief? Like say, not putting two guys on the cake, maybe a man and woman, or neither? Isn't that what the dry cleaners do anyway? "Oh, we lost your shirt?" "I don't know how that stain got there." "We didn't cause this damage." "You wanted it starched and ironed?" Etc.. etc.. Maybe the dry cleaners association can give lessons & training seminars on their idea of customer service to the religious conservative business owners of AZ? Edited February 22, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 If I walk in a biker bar, I get the hell out of there and go to a different bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 (edited) I was at a Bills Backers club in Orange county one time a bunch of years ago. We'd pack this place for big games. One year the Bills with playing the Dolphins and the place was full of red, white and blue. Two Dolphin fans walked in and gingerly walked around the perimeter and I think I was the only one who noticed them. Well me and the bartender who refused to serve them. Now that was funny. This on the other hand is silly and stupid. Edited February 22, 2014 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Politically and rationally I tend to agree with that. You're more of a strict libertarian than me, so it makes sense. It's more hilarious to me how out of touch with reality that state continues to be. And what state do you feel to be more in touch with reality? California? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Unless you live in Arizona, why does anyone care? I've been run out of a couple of redneck bars inn NY because my friends and I didn't fit in. I didn't go running around complaining that Joe Bob Bumphucks didn't like the WOPs. A group of people don't want to do business with you, find someone that will. Hey, by all means, don't care about it. I have no issue with that. But your comparision here is not the best. While you didn't fit into the redneck bars because you're Italian, you're still not a minority in any way shape or form. The discrimination you endured at that bar ended the moment you walked out. There is no state law that makes it easier for people to discriminate against Italians, or straight men. At least not anymore. Comparing your plight to that of an entire segment of the population that is being actively discriminated against because of something that is out of their control is missing the point. Hell, I live in a state that just passed a law that will literally give school-aged boys the ability to use the girls locker room, and all they have to do is sign a piece of paper that says they're really a chick. An entire law. Signed by Jerry Brown. But let's mock Arizona cuz they don't like gays. Different people pushing what they can based on their audience. Don't like it, leave. Or STFU. What's so hard to see about that? Silence in the face of discrimination and hate only lead to more hate and discrimination. I understand if you don't agree with that sentiment, or this particular cause, but it's worth pointing out. If this were a law designed to limit the ability of white, straight, Italian men to live freely I bet you'd be up in arms about it. And why wouldn't you be? This is a civil right's issue. Right. If you're straight, try walking in to a gay bar and see how welcoming they are of you. Incredibly welcoming. I'm not sure what gay bars you've been to (unless this was sarcasm in which case I missed it), but the smart men know that gay bars are the best place to pick up women. And what state do you feel to be more in touch with reality? California? I am not holding California up as a beacon of anything. My point with saying Arizona is out of touch with reality, and many people on this board, is that the issue of Gay Rights is over. Only the bigots or religious nuts are fighting to make this an issue. It's akin to the people who fought for segregation and seperate but equal. Those people didn't realize they were on the wrong side of history because they had lived in a time when it was socially acceptable to restrict an entire people's civil rights based on the color of their skin. Now, 65+ years later, those people who fought so hard to resist the civil rights movements look like ridiculous in the light of day. What do you think people will think of the anti-gay bigots ten years from now? Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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