DC Tom Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't need religion to tell me gay sex is wrong. Common sense does. Sexual organs don't include fists, fingers, tongues, or butts. Men dressing like women, women dressing like men. I find it repulsive, but to each his own. I don't care what people do privately. Sexual preference shouldn't stop anyone from having equal rights, but there should be limits when it comes to pro sports. For example, what will the league do if someone wants to get breast implants or remove their penis? Things can get out of hand real quick. Seriously? You think the league's going to worry about breast implants? Some of these guys need breast reductions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 1. No, no! Sorry, that wasn't meant to offend, sorry. It was stupid @ the time to put gay people in a psych ward. Again, I didn't mean to offend w/the word stupid. 2. 20%, 30%,+. Numbers that would point to being straight/gay as being a social choice. Will people play the"gay card" for sympathy? Say teens that are going through change? People do play into "protected" classes. It is now advantageous to play the role of victim. There will ALWAYS be gay haters out there. This is one issue that simply will NOT reach an equillirium, not w/religion innvolved in the debate. I am all for defining societal norms, not as rigid in the past, but still defining them. I read recently that gay porn Google searches were found in roughly the same percentages in states that had far fewer "out" gay folks (ie, the deep South and Midwest) than other more "gay friendly" states (ie, NY and CA). What does that tell you? Perhaps that homosexuality is roughly constant across populations, even in very different social climes and levels of social acceptance? If so, wouldn't that argue for biology vs choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I know I'm a little late to the party here as this thread seems to have turned into a debate on homosexuality. Perhaps this was already discussed, I read threw about 10 pages and didn't find anything. I would have serious concerns over drafting Sam just because he's never really played a down as an openly gay man. We can say he has at Missouri, OK, his teammates knew about it but that is it. He was a beast on the field. He already won over that teams respect by being the best player on the team. Nobody on the Tigers was slurring him, nobody was crossing him, no opposing teams or fans knew anything about him. The NFL is going to be a much different environment. He likely isn't going to walk in and dominate, not according to his original draft projections. So he's not earning any teammates respect by simply being the best. He likely will take a lot of locker room shots, he certainly will be taunted endlessly on the field by opposing players, and depending on the location, he's likely to get his fair share from drunk a-holes. All the while, the cameras will be rolling 24/7 on the entire situation making a spectacle of it all. It's one thing if Sam was a projected top 10 guy and this has him sliding well into the 3rd or 4th round and you can scoop him up with major upside, but Sam was never projected at that level. It was debatable if he was even 3rd rounder or better before this announcement. Making an NFL team is hard enough as a straight man, this guy will go thru hell to make it in the league and he stands a decent chance of having to go thru that hell without even starting for several seasons. I guess the point I'm trying to make here is what is the upside? How does drafting a mid level player who walks into this situations beneficial to any team? I just see drafting him as a bad business decision, just too much media and unknown variables in the equation for a guy that is likely a fringe starter or situational pass rusher. His biggest problem will be that he's no longer "NFL Prospect Michael Sam." He's now "First Openly Gay NFL Prospect Michael Sam." (Seriously, I've read that in three different headlines today, and just heard it on TV. Read one headline where he's the "First Openly Gay NFL Player" ). So already, he's being judged as gay man first, defensive end second. With that narrative pretty much set, anything and everything he does or that happens to him will be filtered through that interpretation of "gay first, football player second." Which basically means that, as a football player, there is no way he gets a fair shot. He will always be viewed through the filter of "gay man" first. Which is not his fault...but it is his problem. I read recently that gay porn Google searches were found in roughly the same percentages in states that had far fewer "out" gay folks (ie, the deep South and Midwest) than other more "gay friendly" states (ie, NY and CA). What does that tell you? Perhaps that homosexuality is roughly constant across populations, even in very different social climes and levels of social acceptance? If so, wouldn't that argue for biology vs choice? Tells me gugny travels a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondslider Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) It sounds like you really know how to disappoint a woman! God doesn't care about the female orgasm. He's too busy trying to get all the gay people to stop being gay by filling true Christians' minds with visions of gay sex. Edited February 12, 2014 by Pondslider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I respectfully disagree. I don't know many, or even any, victims of hate who found it "advantageous". I have counseled LGBT youth and seen first hand what they go through, from parents throwing holy water on them trying to cure them to gym teachers looking the other way while they get assaulted and everything in between. The saddest ones I have talked to are those who attempted suicide, preferring to die rather than to live and be gay because of all the crap they have been told it means to be gay. Things like, "you are sick", "you choose to be a deviant", "you are going to hell but don't worry, we love you anyway" etc.,etc., etc. The reality of what it means to be gay for so many people makes the chance of their "playing victim" because it's just so darn advantageous is zero, zero, zero. Nobody chooses this, not the ones who go through hell over it and not the ones who are lucky enough to come out and come of age in a supportive atmosphere. I don't know if it is something they are born with, predisposed to or that develops at an early age or some combination. Either way, its not a choice unless you think maybe a 5 year old is capable of such choices. I think that rather than to theorize and pull apart logic puzzles over this issue, people ought to listen to people who are gay, experience their stories first hand and then see what your heart tells you about LGBT folks. Abstract theories about genetics, societal "norms" and the pernicious effect of permissiveness on crop yields in the Ukraine are easy to obsess over when you haven't had the chance to get to really know people facing these problems everyday. The public high school here in my town, there are a lot of openly gay teens... They aren't taking any flak... The system is rallying around them and encouraging them. Is this a problem when it becomes a "fad?" Is it a fad? Or are they honestly coming out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondslider Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The public high school here in my town, there are a lot of openly gay teens... They aren't taking any flak... The system is rallying around them and encouraging them. Is this a problem when it becomes a "fad?" Is it a fad? Or are they honestly coming out? Why would it ever be a problem? Who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Dad isn't too happy: http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2014/story/_/id/10439397/father-michael-sam-struggling-news-son-gay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The public high school here in my town, there are a lot of openly gay teens... They aren't taking any flak... The system is rallying around them and encouraging them. Is this a problem when it becomes a "fad?" Is it a fad? Or are they honestly coming out? How the hell do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I find it rather ironic that I'm being insulted in a thread by the very same people that are preaching tolerance of others. I've been accused of being a virgin, of not being able to please a women, and thinking about gay sex a lot (insinuating that I'm gay). Great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It sounds like you really know how to disappoint a woman! Don't let all that stuff Ennifer demanded skew your view of the real world. You can achieve a lot of satisfaction by using the "normal" part, your eyes, your voice and even your absence if you are doing it right. Ennifer is a deviant and that was a job. You got your money but don't let it change your life. Plus she's a shape shifter so be careful out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Makes no sense, huh? Okay then, I've gotta question for you guys, do you believe God punishes us for our thoughts or our actions? God may not, but nature does. http://www.cdc.gov/msmhealth/STD.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I find it rather ironic that I'm being insulted in a thread by the very same people that are preaching tolerance of others. I've been accused of being a virgin, of not being able to please a women, and thinking about gay sex a lot (insinuating that I'm gay). Great job. Most of those were joking around so don't sweat it. And you can't "accuse" someone of being a virgin. There is nothing wrong with being a virgin. Anyway, this started as a semi-football thread and ended up with jokes, opinions based on all sorts of belief systems, communist scales of gayness in which everyone falls into a category and even lectures about the LGBTLMNOPWXYZ community and how none of them could ever get a job without 4000 new rules. Imagine if someone who is actually projected as a top NFL talent comes out or an established player comes out. It will be an even bigger thread. I find this guy's draft position interesting as he is neither a sure fire lock to be a good NFL player, nor an obviously inferior player. Ultimately I think more of the pressure will be on him than the team because he will get more attention than 99.99999% of 3rd or 4th rounders ever got. Still, he is an undersized DE and size cannot be taught. I can see a duplicate of the Tebow phenomenon. It will be a different group of people openly rooting for him, and he will have far less loud detractors because gay people are cooler than Christians this week, but I'm guessing his on field performance is about the same....some overhyped good plays in a somewhat sub par career. He sounds like a bright guy though so he will probably end up on TV like Tebow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondslider Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I find it rather ironic that I'm being insulted in a thread by the very same people that are preaching tolerance of others. I've been accused of being a virgin, of not being able to please a women, and thinking about gay sex a lot (insinuating that I'm gay). Great job. Speaking for only my comment, my intention was not to insult you personally. I was referring more to the types of people that obsess over the actions of consenting adults. Your laundry list of things you find offensive about "gay sex" was extremely insulting for a lot of reasons (Women wearing men's clothes? What year is this?), not the least of which was your assertion that your preference is informed by "common sense" whereas, what, the alternative is that anyone who disagrees has none? But you said, "to each his own" so that must mean that you're an extremely tolerant person. Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Speaking for only my comment, my intention was not to insult you personally. I was referring more to the types of people that obsess over the actions of consenting adults. Your laundry list of things you find offensive about "gay sex" was extremely insulting for a lot of reasons (Women wearing men's clothes? What year is this?), not the least of which was your assertion that your preference is informed by "common sense" whereas, what, the alternative is that anyone who disagrees has none? But you said, "to each his own" so that must mean that you're an extremely tolerant person. Please. I don't take offense to it. I'm repulsed by it. There's a difference. I don't care what year it is. I find it disgusting and confusing when someone portrays themselves as something that they're not. I mean what kind of homosexuals are they trying to attract by looking like a man? I thought lesbians didn't find men attractive, why would they dress/look like one? Common sense? Yeah well parts that work together like penis and vagina make a ton of sense to me. Penis on penis not so much. I said to each his own because I don't care if people are gay. I'm not going to any protests condemning them. I won't vote against gay marriage. I won't do anything to hurt their "cause". I could care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) How the hell do you know? Children that go there. The ones that come out (or carry on like they do) are a protected class... And rightly so, they shouldn't be bullied. Why would it ever be a problem? Who cares? It is disruptive the same as heteros carrying on. Edited February 12, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Juronimo – Still that yellow bellied 'mo was up to no good and Tim called it. Bet ole Sam woulda lived his whole life in the closet (aside from his whole college team who knew) and wouldn't have taken none of the abuse for his lifestyle he so rightly deserves. But them NFL fellas were too smart and figured him out and he had to fess up. Now ole Sam acts like he was being courageous, but you know he was just gonna try and live his life like a normal person and not tell no one he was gay or nothing and thats not right. Dear Lord.. Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 It sounds like you really know how to disappoint a woman! Hahahahha That cracked me up, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I don't take offense to it. I'm repulsed by it. There's a difference. I don't care what year it is. I find it disgusting and confusing when someone portrays themselves as something that they're not. I mean what kind of homosexuals are they trying to attract by looking like a man? I thought lesbians didn't find men attractive, why would they dress/look like one? Common sense? Yeah well parts that work together like penis and vagina make a ton of sense to me. Penis on penis not so much. I said to each his own because I don't care if people are gay. I'm not going to any protests condemning them. I won't vote against gay marriage. I won't do anything to hurt their "cause". I could care less. I am "coming out" to TBD as a confessed homophobe. The word "phobia" as described by Miriam Webster is: "an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation." -I think that's a far cry from being anti-gay. I wish Michael Sam the absolute best. Having watched him play many Saturdays, I believe he has the stuff to make an NFL team... I do not believe Sam should be judged, harassed, or villified in any way for being the way he is. That said, how about a little tolerance for us guys who can't fully get our heads around kissing a dude. If there are any gay male posters on TBD, I'd like to ask them "what in the world is so terrible about poon?" I mean seriously, What is NOT to like about it? -The stuff's AWESOME! However, getting back on topic, Just like Sam, I don't feel I should be judged for having feelings I can't help. If all phobias became crimes, people couldn't do anything with any degree of honesty. -We'd all be prisoners in our own bodies. As far as I can see, there are three levels to this whole gay thing.. The first is simple tolerance, that's the basic act of letting another human being live in peace without harrassment or intimidation. The second is acceptance, wherein a person who may have had an anti-gay stance in the past, can discard it, and see gays as people simply living out their own personal truth. The third, is Embracing. -That's when you're willing to include a certain lifestyle as part of your everyday life. Whether through freinds or family, or other social interactions. -Some of us may never get that far... Hower, in this instance, I feel two outta three really ain't bad. I remain a little grossed out by male on male action. While that may put me slightly behind the times, it hardly makes me a Westboro Baptist. -Here's hoping that Michael Sam Knocks 'em dead at the combine. GO BILLS! Edited February 12, 2014 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I listen to Loveline/Dr. Drew/Adam Carolla a lot. Dr. Drew always says it's a natural reaction of a straight male to be repulsed by gay porn or some lighter fair. They are both majorly in favor of gay rights, etc. But, you can't change biology, and the way we are wired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 How the hell do you know? Well, they seem happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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