Doug Flutie Band Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 what can you say over the last 15 years the bills have been among the worst franchises in football - arguably the absolute very worst yes that is very much linked to the consistently lousy quarterback play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 no offense meant to the OP - this is a solid analysis of the importance of having a good QB - but here are some numbers.. wins losses ties 370 426 8 record from 1960-2013 - in 54 seasons we won 46% of our games - 70 - 26 - 0 record from 1988-1993 - in 6 seasons we won 73% of our games 300 400 8 record from 1960-1987 and 1994-2013 - in 48 seasons we won 42% of our games other than a 6 year span where we fielded one of the most talented teams ever assembled, we are a historically bad franchise. why? because we lunge toward each season in awkward bursts, without long term plans. our front office has shown the discipline of a small child with an attention deficit disorder, quitting this for that in fits of lapsed judgments.. all the while profiting from the sale of an inferior product to consumers compelled to buy in, year after year. maybe i'm the worst sucker out of all of us, but for the first time in a long time, i believe a young GM with some football chops has been given an opportunity to grow the culture of this haphazard club into something better - something cohesive - something that might last awhile. but here we are, less than one week removed from our latest failure, an ineffectual mob of grown men who - for some insane reasons we can't even fathom - need this team more than they need us.. here we are.. storming this wobbly castle.. ready to burn it and all it's cursed inhabitants down to the cold, cold ground.. again. i'm willing to give this GM and this coaching staff one more year to win. i'm willing to give this QB one more year to win. i'm willing to watch other bad clubs hitch their creaking wagons to the next generation of projected saviors without envy, because i think we're building something solid here, and now.. and i'd like to see what the football men in the room can do before the sales department tears apart their plans in response to the mob. be careful what you ask for I don't mean to be entirely negative about the current organization at all. I like some of the things they've done, like drastically improve the pass D (and the D overall). And as I say above, the jury is still out on EJ. Luck had a qb rating in the 77 range last year (although he also had 5 rushing tds and 7 game winning drives), but he really improved this year (87.0) despite losing his best receiver relatively early on. I hope Manuel makes the same kind of improvment. Also, I'm pretty sure Whaley is aware of all this. He strikes me as pretty savvy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Excellent thread and insightful responses. I must be dreaming.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I just want them to draft Russel Wilson in the 3rd. guard and Lb in the first 2, and a TE's for all the rest of the picks(and maybe a bruiser rb to compete with our fb) And sign Byrd, fire the ST coach bring in a real Qb coach and have an open compitition in camp. As far as coaching I really want them to spread horizonally a bit so Spiller can be more effective.And for Christmas next year i want a playoff slot. Tahj Boyd perhaps ? I like him in 3rd if he falls as a wannabee Russell Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 No, Fitz is gone. Past history. But I just can't help but chuckle at the people who thought Fitz was the worst QB ever having a cow over Manuel. I posted if you thought Fitz was bad then get ready for something even worse. And there it is. PTR I must respectfully disagree that we saw something worse this year. To me, "worse" is more of the same with no chance of improvement and no future. Fitz performance in Tenn. this year was very much on a par with his performance here last year. In 11 games, rating of 82. Projected to 16 games, about 3500 yds passing, 20 TD, 17 int, 7.0 YPA. And Tenn. finished with a 7-9 record, 1 more win than the Bills, to which Fitz contributed exactly proportionately. Yes, EJ's QB play, when he played, was worse than Fitz - but he's a rookie, and there is hope that if he really has the "fire in his belly" and wants to work hard in the off-season and improve, he will. As has been noted, many a good QB had a similar mediocre 1st year, and a capable veteran will almost always outplay a rookie. To me, that's not worse, despite the statistics. If your point is that the rabid disparagement,hatred even, dished out to Fitz last year on this board was off the reservation and lacked a sense of proportion, I would agree. He's not the worst QB ever or even the worst QB in the league, but it's pretty clear he's not and will never be clutch or elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Still think the best thing the Bills could have done last offseason, was keep Fitz. Don't understand why they dumped Fitz for Kolb. Fitz was a serviceable, smart QB that could have helped out Manuel. He probably would have been the starter for the early part of the year and given way to Manuel later in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGUNBILLS Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Fitz was a smart QB, it's just to bad he had a 10 cent noodle for an arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I must respectfully disagree that we saw something worse this year. To me, "worse" is more of the same with no chance of improvement and no future. Fitz performance in Tenn. this year was very much on a par with his performance here last year. In 11 games, rating of 82. Projected to 16 games, about 3500 yds passing, 20 TD, 17 int, 7.0 YPA. And Tenn. finished with a 7-9 record, 1 more win than the Bills, to which Fitz contributed exactly proportionately. Yes, EJ's QB play, when he played, was worse than Fitz - but he's a rookie, and there is hope that if he really has the "fire in his belly" and wants to work hard in the off-season and improve, he will. As has been noted, many a good QB had a similar mediocre 1st year, and a capable veteran will almost always outplay a rookie. To me, that's not worse, despite the statistics. If your point is that the rabid disparagement,hatred even, dished out to Fitz last year on this board was off the reservation and lacked a sense of proportion, I would agree. He's not the worst QB ever or even the worst QB in the league, but it's pretty clear he's not and will never be clutch or elite. That is exactly my point about the Fitz hate, much like Noodle's insistence that the Bills are the worst team ever. Missing the playoffs 14 years in a row is bad but most of those years we are 6-10. It would be more accurate to describe the Bills as "most mediocre." So why is Promo splitting hairs? Worst? Mediocre? Yadda yadda! Because to me words matter. Calling everything the worst makes an opinion meaningless. PTR Fitz was a smart QB, it's just to bad he had a 10 cent noodle for an arm. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 No, Fitz is gone. Past history. But I just can't help but chuckle at the people who thought Fitz was the worst QB ever having a cow over Manuel. I posted if you thought Fitz was bad then get ready for something even worse. And there it is. PTR Most around here haven't called Fitz the worst ever, and most generally liked how he gave it everything he had. Yet, he had to go as he was too limited, and too inconsistent. It's time for everyone to get over Fitz, regardless if you are pro or con. Manuel may end up not being the guy, but we may not know for another season or two. The change had to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Fitz would be the worst ever if Trent and jp didn't exist. He is not missed in this household. Pickspatrick be gone ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 No, Fitz is gone. Past history. But I just can't help but chuckle at the people who thought Fitz was the worst QB ever having a cow over Manuel. I posted if you thought Fitz was bad then get ready for something even worse. And there it is. PTR Promo...it is ok that fans realized that Fitzy wasn't ever going to be good enough to take this team forward (you say he's gone, yet you continue to bring him up) and it's also ok that some (many?) now question whether Manuel can ever be that guy. We get it, you are a glass overflowing guy. Most people don't have your patience and I'm one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 That is exactly my point about the Fitz hate, much like Noodle's insistence that the Bills are the worst team ever. Missing the playoffs 14 years in a row is bad but most of those years we are 6-10. It would be more accurate to describe the Bills as "most mediocre." So why is Promo splitting hairs? Worst? Mediocre? Yadda yadda! Because to me words matter. Calling everything the worst makes an opinion meaningless. PTR Agree. Except the Bills are not most mediocre. They're two spots away from being the worst over the last 14 cumulative seasons. In fine company with Lions & Browns. Even Jags won more games over that span. Here and here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 To the OP, I'd argue that passer rating will be skewed against our favor naturally due to the weather conditions that the Bills play in. This also was a positive factor for the defense. However, I think that as a fanbase, we need to have a little patience as opposed to running guy after guy out of town. Ideally, I would have loved to have seen Losman take the job from Bledsoe by beating him out, same with Manuel over Fitz. These jobs should be earned by the QB's not given as a royalty. We gave each QB of the future major headaches by mishandling them by not letting them work things out, pulling them for a backup. Consequently ruining their confidence, and the team's confidence in QB of the future. The only exception is Trent where they rushed him back from a concussion and he got another one soon after. This cycle needs to stop for us to have any chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 We used to have a QB that threw for 3800 yds and 24 TDs. But fans said he sucked and we had to replace with with a "franchise" rookie. But now the rookie sucks worse after 10 games. We expect a rookie to walk in and dominate the NFL and when they don't we are sad and cry. PTR You do realize the year he threw for 3800 yds and 24 tds he also threw 23 ints, don't you? This year with Tenn his stats are 14 tds and 12 ints in 11 games. I think we also expect a veteran like Fitz to perform better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Except the Bills are not most mediocre. They're two spots away from being the worst over the last 14 cumulative seasons. In fine company with Lions & Browns. Even Jags won more games over that span. Hereand here. Yup. We are bad. But we aren't the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Yup. We are bad. But we aren't the worst. If you take consolation in being 30th out of 32 for 14 years, then more power to you. Ralph Wilson thanks you for your support. Edited January 3, 2014 by GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 You do realize the year he threw for 3800 yds and 24 tds he also threw 23 ints, don't you? This year with Tenn his stats are 14 tds and 12 ints in 11 games. I think we also expect a veteran like Fitz to perform better. Agree. Fitz has a problem with picks. Most of them coming when his team is down in the 4th and he's forcing his throws. Never said he wasn't flawed. All I'm doing is pointing out when people said 3800/24/23 amounted to the "worst QB in the NFL" I said it will be a lot worse when we start our rookie franchise QB, whoever it would be. And I was right. If you take consolation in being 30th out of 32 for 14 years, then more power to you. Ralph Wilson thanks you for your support. I'm sorry I thought we were 30th of 32 in this decade only. At least that's what your chart said. We were 27th of 32 in the other chart. We all agree the Bills are bad. Do you still feel the need to embellish it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Agree. Fitz has a problem with picks. Most of them coming when his team is down in the 4th and he's forcing his throws. Never said he wasn't flawed. All I'm doing is pointing out when people said 3800/24/23 amounted to the "worst QB in the NFL" I said it will be a lot worse when we start our rookie franchise QB, whoever it would be. And I was right. I'm sorry I thought we were 30th of 32 in this decade only. At least that's what your chart said. We were 27th of 32 in the other chart. We all agree the Bills are bad. Do you still feel the need to embellish it? There is no link to cumulative records since 2000, that's why I provided two links. Let me do the math for you. Since 2000, Bills are 30th out of 32 teams (88 wins), behind Detroit (69) & Cleveland (75) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I don't mean to be entirely negative about the current organization at all. I like some of the things they've done, like drastically improve the pass D (and the D overall). And as I say above, the jury is still out on EJ. Luck had a qb rating in the 77 range last year (although he also had 5 rushing tds and 7 game winning drives), but he really improved this year (87.0) despite losing his best receiver relatively early on. I hope Manuel makes the same kind of improvment. Also, I'm pretty sure Whaley is aware of all this. He strikes me as pretty savvy. Good work, Dave. At the risk of regurgitating comments made elsewhere by others, I will add that the biggest transgression Whaley and Co. can do is to not bring another QB option to camp. A few ways we can go: - Draft one in Round 1: Problem is several teams above us need a QB. We cant afford to waste draft picks to move up. Also, if this FO's success at evaluating QBs puts us in a bind. This is the same team that selected EJ. If he turns out to be good, we wont need another high pick @ QB. But if he doesn't, how will we know that any QB we select is good ? - Draft one in Round 2 or lower: Unless we land a hidden gem like Kaepernick or Wilson, this is a useless move in the short run. We need to know in the next season (and no later) what we do or don't have. Drafting a lower order QB likely won't allow us to evaluate this talent adequately. - Trade or sign a cast-off: Likely QBs like Matt Schaub will come available. I think Schaub is not a world beater but is adequate and had a really down year. He is sort of like Alex Smith in that regard, which is not entirely a bad thing. I had wanted the FO to get Smith and draft a Qb last season. We can fix that now Of all the above choices, I am leaning towards the third. Get a game manager cast-off QB who can manage the game for us. If EJ fails in the first half of the season, bench him and let this QB handle the rest of the season, then draft a QB in 2015. We cannot let another season go by with no contingency plan at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 There is no link to cumulative records since 2000, that's why I provided two links. Let me do the math for you. Since 2000, Bills are 30th out of 32 teams (88 wins), behind Detroit (69) & Cleveland (75) You are correct. Houston had fewer wins but they played 2 fewer seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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