djp14150 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 The fact is if you want to you can make stats say whatever you want to show. Think about this.... If you are a perenial 3 and out offense but have a stellar defense you are going to have alot more possessions on both sides of the ball. Your yardage will suck and you wont necessarily have more plays. if a team does 3 and out where a team has the ball 2:30...each team will get the ball 3 times a quarter and 12 times a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Although the hurry up allows the team to score over 20, it gives the defense the short end of the stick. I hear what you're saying, but it's no all on the offense. The defense could get it's own self off the field by stopping teams on 3rd and long. AND not allowing a 99 yard drive. I also agree that the offense needs to do a better job of scoring TDs when we get in the red zone. They also need to be able to get a TD or 2 in the 2nd half. All three phases of he game need to improve for us to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProbablyWrong Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 NO! Normalized they are 8th and 12th in terms of yardage and points. Overall, they are a top 10 defense. They rank 8th in average yards given up per drive with 28.04(last year 32.73(26th)). 12th in points per drve with 1.71(2.23(29th)). 10th in turnovers per drive with .156(.112(24th)), 4th in INTs per drive with .125(.067(21st)), 10th in plays per drive with 5.47(5.93(19th)), 9th in time of possession allowed per drive at 2:26(2:40(16th)) and 7th in drive success rate at .655(.727(31st)) Different stat, different results. Not hard to undertstand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Football Outsiders advanced stats show the opposite. Our defense is ranked 6th while out offense was in the 20s. Just goes to show how statistics can be twisted to show your view point !.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I hear what you're saying, but it's no all on the offense. The defense could get it's own self off the field by stopping teams on 3rd and long. AND not allowing a 99 yard drive. I also agree that the offense needs to do a better job of scoring TDs when we get in the red zone. They also need to be able to get a TD or 2 in the 2nd half. All three phases of he game need to improve for us to be successful. I don't think the defense is that great, just not any worse than the offense. This is a strange team. It is "modernizing" (or something like that), and it's still forming an identity. It seems like there hasn't been a game yet, where one of the units hasn't been missing (or the guy has one arm...) a key player (even the first game was EJM's rookie debut AND return from an injury). So it's been hard to know what each of those guys bring to their unit. I realize that every team has injured players. I also don't know that the coaches have developed a feel for pacing the game, and playing to the strengths of the team yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I don't think the defense is that great, just not any worse than the offense. This is a strange team. It is "modernizing" (or something like that), and it's still forming an identity. It seems like there hasn't been a game yet, where one of the units hasn't been missing (or the guy has one arm...) a key player (even the first game was EJM's rookie debut AND return from an injury). So it's been hard to know what each of those guys bring to their unit. I realize that every team has injured players. I also don't know that the coaches have developed a feel for pacing the game, and playing to the strengths of the team yet. This team is still weak @ The QB position - Just haven't had any stability TE - Scott Chandler gets two catches a game OL - LG and RT are well below average DL - Continues to leak like a bucket against the Run LB - Besides Kiko and Manny(when he is on the field), the rest are pedestrian DB - Too many injuries and lack of consistency, though McKelvin and Williams have been solid. These are good reasons to not have a *consistent* team, one that can play *consistently* at a high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 5 turnovers vs. the Ravens, and the Bills win by 3.... This offense is doing the (pretty good, but with holes) defense, no favors. I don't think the offense is any better than the defense, and they both have some problems. But the defense can at least make big plays. The offense doesn't get big chunks, can't seem to punch it in at the goal line, doesn't convert turnovers into touchdowns, has too many 3 and outs, and short possessions. Although the hurry up allows the team to score over 20, it gives the defense the short end of the stick. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) Offense only scored 16 against Miami. Robey had the other 7. Dont care about the stats, I watch every snap and we're in these games because of our defense creating turnovers and key stops. I hope Hackett has a good passing plan because we're gonna need to sling it Sunday. Our runners are hurting and we are gonna need to hit some big plays on O. Brees is smart with the football too. Maybe Byrd will show us his "elite" skills and play at the level he wants to be paid. That would be great. Edited October 25, 2013 by Webster Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Offense only scored 16 against Miami. Robey had the other 7. Dont care about the stats, I watch every snap and we're in these games because of our defense creating turnovers and key stops. I hope Hackett has a good passing plan because we're gonna need to sling it Sunday. Our runners are hurting and we are gonna need to hit some big plays on O. Brees is smart with the football too. Maybe Byrd will show us his "elite" skills and play at the level he wants to be paid. That would be great. The same defense also has made the games more closer by giving up points or allowing drives to extend when they could have got off the field. The blame goes to both sides of the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 The fact is if you want to you can make stats say whatever you want to show. This is why you have to to analyze and interpret statastics and not take them at face value. This model the OP showed is SEVERLY flawed from a statistics point of few. Variables are not on a level playing ground, they are not isolated. There is no validity to the way they came about this stat. It's junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. in VA Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Football Outsiders advanced stats show the opposite. Our defense is ranked 6th while out offense was in the 20s. The offense was 18th before EJ got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 This doesn't surprise me. In fact, I've been pointing this out for weeks. Not using your stats, but ones on NFL.com. In yards and points, we're in the bottom 1/4th of the league. while our offense is around the middle of the pack. While our defense looks better and is more fun, it is little more effective in stopping the run and giving up points that last years disaster. The one difference has been TOs. But we sometimes get them (Ravens, Fish) and sometimes don't (Clowns, Bungles). For this reason I have made up a nickname for our defense, "The Feast or Faminators". To be a good defense, we must continue to get TOs, but also be able to stop the other team better. In another thread it was pointed out that our d sees the most plays in the NFL. I think the largest culprit on the D is the inability to sustain drives or score points regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. in VA Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Just goes to show how statistics can be twisted to show your view point !.... Historically, FO's system has been reasonably accurate in it's prediction of future performance. They accurately predicted that the Bills weren't anywhere near as good as their 5-2 start a couple of years ago when the team disintegrated, for example, and that the 5-1 Trent Edwards team form 2008 was not good enough to be a playoff team. Their stats generally pass the eyeball test, too, although like any other system you get the occasional "WTF?" moment. It's hardly a perfect system, but has seemed to be more useful than any of the others I've followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGUNBILLS Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 How many of those offensive point's were scored by the defense? Sh#t on paper can be misleading, for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billadelphia Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I saw a statistical tool yesterday that ranked the Bills offense 9th and their defense 27th (overall rank of 19th). It basically compared points scored/points allowed as compared to each opponents' averages. Bills scored 1.15 on offense, meaning they scored 1.15 times as many points as their opponents give up on average, and scored 1.23 on defense, meaning they allowed 1.23 times as many points as their opponents score on average. Very different from the narrative we were told so far, but it makes sense if you look at our opponents: much better typically on defense than on offense. And yet we managed to put up 20+ on all of them. I'm gonna say that you're probably wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalover4life Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 you can't forget about the fact that our offense has put our D in a lot of sticky situations. It is the reason for having so many points scored on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) This team is still weak @ The QB position - Just haven't had any stability TE - Scott Chandler gets two catches a game OL - LG and RT are well below average DL - Continues to leak like a bucket against the Run LB - Besides Kiko and Manny(when he is on the field), the rest are pedestrian DB - Too many injuries and lack of consistency, though McKelvin and Williams have been solid. These are good reasons to not have a *consistent* team, one that can play *consistently* at a high level. I agree on all these points. Which situation would Bills fans be more comfortable with, down by 2 at your own 20 at the 2 min. warning with the Bills offense, or the reverse, up by 2 with the Bills defense? Edited October 25, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 All I want to see is consistency. Some series they look awesome and the next just plain awful. Feast or famine is dead on description. Now that the defense has a relatively health group of DBs, we can see what this group is capable of. Brees and the Saints offense will be the best test that they will see all season. I think they defense will do well Sunday. Top 5 sack defense vs top 10 least sacks given up offense. It will be a real battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 It's a team game. Trying to separate the offense and defense as if the play of one doesn't affect the other is silly. Ultimately, the only stat that matters is record. As Chan said, the other stats are for losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Common sense tells you the more chances the opposition has, the more points you are going to give up. In per drive stats, Bills are top 10 across the board Good point, running the no huddle has Buffalo at the top of the League in the amount of possessions which also equates to our opponent having more possessions against us. Everything goes up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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