Old Skewl Credit Card Question

[The Big Cat]

I've only said you steal if you do not pay for what you received. You seem to hold to the notion that handing them the credit card and having them take an imprint is the end of your responsibility in the transaction. If that's your position you've certainly stated it and why feel defensive about it unless you know there is room for uncertainty in your position?

 

I've said it several times, sure it is still early in the transaction timeline given this was done manually. So maybe you let some additional time pass for it to be processed. At some point, in my mind no more than another month end, you call the store to say there was likely an oversight somewhere and that you want to make the situation right.

 

The point of difference is that simply handing them the card is not the end of your responsibilities in the transaction. Making reasonable effort to see that the store is actually paid for what you and your friends received is the end of your responsibility.

 

I got defensive because you've accused of me stealing and being dishonest--neither of which are remotely accurate.

 

You've made it clear what you think my responsibility is in the transaction, but you haven't mentioned much about the merchant's responsibility or to what extent their responsibility is mine.

 

Did he call to get a phone auth? If he saw a decline and didn't bother to try and get a valid auth before accepting the card then that's a seriously risky transaction - you're basically taking a card without an auth and hoping that you get a valid auth at the time of settlement - if you don't, you don't get the funds.

exactly. its essentially saying "oh your card is declining, im betting its still legit and not a closed account, maxed out account, or any number of other issues that would leave me empty handed"

 

Precisely why I responded the way I did to the info Avenger shared.

 

I'm not in the habit of doing other people's jobs for them.

[BuffaloBill]

Look back to my first post in the thread. I still stand by it and everything else I have said.

 

Agreed ... Why would you in effect shoplift? Not cool as it sounds like the store owner is the one who is going to eat this.

 

No you did not ... Otherwise you would not be here asking the question that started the post. You are trying to get away with something and looking to rationalize it as being outside of your responsibility. If you fail to take accountability you are stealing either from the credit card vendor or the store.

 

If you don't want opinions do not ask for them.

 

 

I got defensive because you've accused of me stealing and being dishonest--neither of which are remotely accurate.

 

You've made it clear what you think my responsibility is in the transaction, but you haven't mentioned much about the merchant's responsibility or to what extent their responsibility is mine.

 

Precisely why I responded the way I did to the info Avenger shared.

 

I'm not in the habit of doing other people's jobs for them.

 

Look at my first post in the thread. I did not accuse you of stealing or being dishonest. In fact I said you determine whether you steal or lie in the scenario through the choices you make. It continues to be my belief that if you fail to act and knowingly allow the transaction not to be processed to closure then you seal your own fate.

 

If you want a different response from me you will not get it.

 

As for the store's responsibility - yes, they should also see the transaction through to completion. Under the circumstances though you know it is highly likely that an error or oversight has occurred. You seem to think that it is perfectly honorable to let that error work in your favor.

 

You determine the quality of your character not me. The situation and choice to make is very black and white from my perspective.

[mrags]

 

 

I've only said you steal if you do not pay for what you received. You seem to hold to the notion that handing them the credit card and having them take an imprint is the end of your responsibility in the transaction. If that's your position you've certainly stated it and why feel defensive about it unless you know there is room for uncertainty in your position?

 

I've said it several times, sure it is still early in the transaction timeline given this was done manually. So maybe you let some additional time pass for it to be processed. At some point, in my mind no more than another month end, you call the store to say there was likely an oversight somewhere and that you want to make the situation right.

 

The point of difference is that simply handing them the card is not the end of your responsibilities in the transaction. Making reasonable effort to see that the store is actually paid for what you and your friends received is the end of your responsibility.

couldnt disagree with you more here. His responsibility absolutely is complete. He's done what he can do and all he should do. If the grocery store doesn't act on their responsibilities why is it Cats fault? Just as you claim Cat has responsibilities to act and make site this is complete, so does the grocery store.

 

 

Just thought of something to add to this. Cat, you might want to call. But not for the reason that BB is claiming. I personally think your responsibility is complete here. But.... You never know if that kid/guy/person never bothered to send that information through because he simply stole your credit card information. He now has a written copy of your card number, expiration number, and likely looked on the back for the 3 digit number. There is a chance he has stolen that information and you could be hit with some charges down the road.

 

Happened to me in Canada last year. On my way home from the Toronto Zoo. Almost ran out of gas, stopped in NF, Canada to get gas. Only place I thought I could make it to was a full serve, 2 pump station outside a Candian Tire. Have the kid a $5 tip and said fill er up. Within a week I had $700 in charges to my card in Canada at Canadian Tire stores. Wonder where that happened. I got all my money back obviously, but it was a hassle in the least.

 

I'm sure BB will say this is karma getting me back for being a thief or something. Oh well.

 

 

[BuffaloBill]

couldnt disagree with you more here. His responsibility absolutely is complete. He's done what he can do and all he should do. If the grocery store doesn't act on their responsibilities why is it Cats fault? Just as you claim Cat has responsibilities to act and make site this is complete, so does the grocery store.

 

I'm sure BB will say this is karma getting me back for being a thief or something. Oh well.

 

As I've said before it is highly likely under the circumstances that an error or breakdown in the process has occurred. So the question is not whose responsibility is it to identify the error as BC already knows, or suspects at this point, that one has been made.

 

It is what you do with this information that calls into question morality not responsibility. Clearly, the most honorable thing to do is to simply make a call to the store and to say "hey, I think a mistake was made and wanted to make sure you had a chance to correct it."

 

To your final point yes, I do generally believe that what goes around comes around.

 

 

[The Big Cat]

 

 

As for the store's responsibility - yes, they should also see the transaction through to completion. Under the circumstances though you know it is highly likely that an error or oversight has occurred. You seem to think that it is perfectly acceptable honorable to let that error work in your favor.

 

 

It's your subtle editorializing that annoys me.

 

couldnt disagree with you more here. His responsibility absolutely is complete. He's done what he can do and all he should do. If the grocery store doesn't act on their responsibilities why is it Cats fault? Just as you claim Cat has responsibilities to act and make site this is complete, so does the grocery store.

 

 

Just thought of something to add to this. Cat, you might want to call. But not for the reason that BB is claiming. I personally think your responsibility is complete here. But.... You never know if that kid/guy/person never bothered to send that information through because he simply stole your credit card information. He now has a written copy of your card number, expiration number, and likely looked on the back for the 3 digit number. There is a chance he has stolen that information and you could be hit with some charges down the road.

 

Happened to me in Canada last year. On my way home from the Toronto Zoo. Almost ran out of gas, stopped in NF, Canada to get gas. Only place I thought I could make it to was a full serve, 2 pump station outside a Candian Tire. Have the kid a $5 tip and said fill er up. Within a week I had $700 in charges to my card in Canada at Canadian Tire stores. Wonder where that happened. I got all my money back obviously, but it was a hassle in the least.

 

I'm sure BB will say this is karma getting me back for being a thief or something. Oh well.

 

Interesting take. I use my credit card for all purchases. Why not? I pay the balance in full every month, and since it's a SW card, I get anywhere from 2-5 free flights a year as a result.

 

As such, though, I'm on my online portal every day tracking purchases, balances, etc. If fraud occurs, I'll catch it early, but given all the different vendors who will have obtained my info, it'd be nearly impossible for me to determine where said fraud originated.

[BuffaloBill]

 

 

It's your subtle editorializing that annoys me.

 

 

I would say that I have not been subtle at all nor have I editorialized anything. My statements are out here for all to see. Read my posts in succession and tell me exactly what I have editorialized, subtly or otherwise.

 

If you think it is acceptable - your word- to knowingly let an error work in your favor then simply stand on your decision. If you really believe doing nothing more and putting this on the store to figure out leaves your moral compass pointing true north then more power to you.

 

Your decisions and actions reflect your character not any statements or opinions that come from me or anyone else here.

 

 

 

 

[mead107]

No, LA I started the thread to find out how long manual swipes can take to process.

 

All my friends say don't call, my wife says its not even an issue, call.

 

You guys all say call.

 

My coworker is confused as to why I'd call.

 

Clearly there are two schools of thought.

 

Ultimately the money will go to a mega grocery conglomerate who could care less. But to Poojers point, that same money could cost some mook his job, and that's the last thing I want.

DO NOT GIVE your coworkers any money for the Power ball or any other games of chance because they would f u out of you winnings.

[Nervous Guy]

Presumably it's the store losing out. But again, the store itself is a SuperValu store:

 

 

 

 

Look, I don't mean to keep getting defensive with you, but we didn't steal. We did nothing sneaky.

 

I gave the guy a perfectly valid credit card on which I carry no balance. We intended to pay. My friends have already wired me their portion because the plan was to pay.

 

Those same friends, who are now temporarily out the money they paid me until this is finalized don't care. They say wait. They say don't call. So I'm not inconveniencing them and by calling the store, I'm doing the store's job for them.

 

So back to the grey area I mentioned last night: as far as you're concerned, I'm either a thief because they didn't carry out their responsibilities in the transaction or I call and do that job for them??

 

How do you feel about downloading music for free?

[John Adams]

 

But the double charge would be a second error on their part, and I'd eventually get it fixed. Worst case scenario, I'm right back to where I started from: paying the 500+

 

Chase will probably doublecharge you and do nothing. No big deal. It's just your money going to them.

Edited August 9, 2013 by John Adams

[The Big Cat]

How do you feel about downloading music for free?

 

I don't. Because unlike this situation, that's intentionally taking something without paying for it.

[Nervous Guy]

I don't. Because unlike this situation, that's intentionally taking something without paying for it.

Whoa...isn't that what you are proposing...taking something and not paying for it????

 

You know, I just busting your chops...you should know better than pose a question like that here...the moral majority will string you up after they tar and feather you...

[The Big Cat]

Whoa...isn't that what you are proposing...taking something and not paying for it????

 

You know, I just busting your chops...you should know better than pose a question like that here...the moral majority will string you up after they tar and feather you...

 

The sanctimony here is practically unbearable.

[BuffaloBill]

 

Whoa...isn't that what you are proposing...taking something and not paying for it????

 

You know, I just busting your chops...you should know better than pose a question like that here...the moral majority will string you up after they tar and feather you...

 

You got the sequence wrong stringing up comes before tarring and feathering....

 

 

 

The sanctimony here is practically unbearable.

 

Would you like to sit in the confessional and hear all that we have done wrong?

 

Perhaps this will help you

 

 

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Just saw this thread - - and I'm firmly in the camp that you received goods for which you have not paid (despite trying to), and the right thing to do is pay up. It's not a close call for me. When you say things that imply that it's OK to screw a big grocery store company out of the money because they're big, I don't need to know anything else about your moral compass.

 

If you don't mind me asking (it's OK if you do mind cause I'm a bit of a privacy freak myself), how old are you?

[Nervous Guy]

 

Would you like to sit in the confessional and hear all that we have done wrong?

 

Perhaps this will help you

 

For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:2

[IDBillzFan]

I don't need to know anything else about your moral compass.

 

There's that silly sanctimony again. People like you are practically unbearable.

[The Big Cat]

Just saw this thread - - and I'm firmly in the camp that you received goods for which you have not paid (despite trying to), and the right thing to do is pay up. It's not a close call for me. When you say things that imply that it's OK to screw a big grocery store company out of the money because they're big, I don't need to know anything else about your moral compass.

 

If you don't mind me asking (it's OK if you do mind cause I'm a bit of a privacy freak myself), how old are you?

 

First off--OK to steal from big store is at best an implication, but more accurately a response to the inference that the store was a mom and pop shop and that makes not paying them much much worse.

 

Secondly--the nexus of this thread was to determine what the timetable should be for the charge to clear, not to justify to myself or others not paying.

 

Thirdly--It's not an argument of whether or not it's right to retain goods that were or weren't paid for, but how much intervening into the merchant's responsibilities I'm accountable for. When you say I should "pay up," the implication is that I'm not willing to, or looking for ways not to. That's misleading. More appropriate would be the demand that I pay up again, which I don't necessarily think I should. Now, if they called me and told me there was an issue and asked me to give them the number again, I would. I think I'd be justified in telling them to !@#$ off and figure it out, but I wouldn't. If they made steps to fix the problem, I'd help them along. I don't think it's my responsibility to initiate a solution to their problem I didn't create.

 

Lastly--turned 29 a couple weeks ago. I'm the youngest of my friends (29-32), all of whom say I shouldn't call.

Edited August 9, 2013 by The Big Cat

[BuffaloBill]

 

 

For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Matthew 7:2

 

I've actually refrained from quoting scripture in this thread. Thank you for for doing so.

 

 

[Chef Jim]

It's your subtle editorializing that annoys me.

 

 

 

Interesting take. I use my credit card for all purchases. Why not? I pay the balance in full every month, and since it's a SW card, I get anywhere from 2-5 free flights a year as a result.

 

As such, though, I'm on my online portal every day tracking purchases, balances, etc. If fraud occurs, I'll catch it early, but given all the different vendors who will have obtained my info, it'd be nearly impossible for me to determine where said fraud originated.

 

Studies show that you tend to spend 12% more per month if you use a card vs cash.

[The Big Cat]

Studies show that you tend to spend 12% more per month if you use a card vs cash.

 

I could see that being the case for others. But using a card helps me monitor expenses within the framework of our budget. As such, I know what I'm spending, I know what I shouldn't spend and I don't spend irresponsibly. Now, if I have cash in my pocket, that **** disappears...FAST.