mannc Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Except no one is sticking up for Buddy Nix. Everyone is saying he failed. I have said it over and over. There are/were simply logical reasons for both his picks and why he and the Bills failed. Yes, and I suppose there were logical reasons why Jacksonville selected a punter one pick before Seattle took Russell Wilson, and KC selected some anonymous O-lineman a couple picks before that. But both of the GMs who made those logical (at the time) picks are now in the unemployment line. Our moron is preparing to tank the Bills' 2013 draft. Edited January 24, 2013 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 No. Two years in a row the offense was decimated by injuries, woefully lacked talent at WR, got abused by having an abysmal defense, and at least this year got crappy QB play and crappy coaching for the entire season. But I don't think Russell Wilson or Colin Kapernick would have won more than 1-2 games, and I think guys like Andy Dalton and Kirk Cousins would have fared as bad as Fitz. Whether I agree with your final sentence is irrelevant. The thing is, I presume having a Dalton or Russell Wilson would have provided the Bills with some hope that the position is solved (like Glenn as our LT). Then the Bills can move on to WR and TE, which are kind of hard to evaluate without a QB. In fact, I would say 3 and outs caused by a bad OFFENSE expose your defense and make them appear even worse than they could be with an efficient offense. So we really will not know what kind of defense we have until the offense is fixed. And I know it works the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yes, and I suppose there were logical reasons why Jacksonville selected a punter one pick before Seattle took Russell Wilson, and KC selected some anonymous O-lineman a couple picks before that. But both of the GMs who made those logical (at the time) picks are now in the unemployment line. Our moron is now preparing to tank the Bills 2013 draft. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yes, and I suppose there were logical reasons why Jacksonville selected a punter one pick before Seattle took Russell Wilson, and KC selected some anonymous O-lineman a couple picks before that. But both of the GMs who made those logical (at the time) picks are now in the unemployment line. Our moron is preparing to tank the Bills' 2013 draft. That is overly harsh. Of course, I think it's true and I agree with it. But it sucks to read as a Bills fan. And is Marrone, not moron (jk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yes Brian Brohm and Levi Brown were home runs.. and Fitz is a Franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Whether I agree with your final sentence is irrelevant. The thing is, I presume having a Dalton or Russell Wilson would have provided the Bills with some hope that the position is solved (like Glenn as our LT). Then the Bills can move on to WR and TE, which are kind of hard to evaluate without a QB. In fact, I would say 3 and outs caused by a bad OFFENSE expose your defense and make them appear even worse than they could be with an efficient offense. So we really will not know what kind of defense we have until the offense is fixed. And I know it works the other way. Very true. I actually meant to say that as I was typing. I obviously would love to have had Wilson or Kapernick on my team both then and especially now, because we wouldn't be desperately looking for one. Personally, I don't care for Dalton and Cousins, and I prefer not to have them, but rather look for someone else. I understand why some people may not agree with that though. I thought Fitz would have a good year this year and I was wrong. But I also very much wanted the Bills to draft Russell Wilson. Edited January 24, 2013 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Except no one is sticking up for Buddy Nix. Everyone is saying he failed. I have said it over and over. There are/were simply logical reasons for both his picks and why he and the Bills failed. I don't think that you should use the word logical in rationalizing Bills' approach to the QB position (both starting and backup). It had as much logic as a welfare recipient buying lottery tickets, because, hey you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 What makes his three year stint even more of a disaster is that he more than his predecessors in his postion had less $$$$ limitations from the owner and his finance people. Nix failed because he was ill-equipped for the job. A typical bonehead Ralph Wilson hire! Back that up with numbers, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I don't think that you should use the word logical in rationalizing Bills' approach to the QB position (both starting and backup). It had as much logic as a welfare recipient buying lottery tickets, because, hey you never know. Could throwing around the word "analytics" be a direct response to the last 3 years of Budley mantra of "I saw him do it before" (once, years ago)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Could throwing around the word "analytics" be a direct response to the last 3 years of Budley mantra of "I saw him do it before" (once, years ago)? Buddy is literally the anti-analytics GM in that Buddy will throw out "facts" that are actually incorrect...But he says things in such an assured way that one might believe he's looked it up...Or at least assume he knows he's right...So he rarely gets called out for it... Example... Q: In a head coach, last time you had wanted someone who was a head coach before. Is that still the case? Buddy Nix: I think the percentages of being successful is higher in a guy that has done it, but we are not going to limit that. We are going to be open-minded. It might be a college guy. It might be a coordinator. We are going to try to just make sure we get the best guy. Well Buddy...Not so much...8 out of the 12 Playoff Head Coaches in 2012 did so with the teams that made them an NFL HC for the 1st time...3 of the last 4 SB winning Head Coaches were in their first stint as an NFL Head Coach...So... Buddy just says stuff... Edited January 24, 2013 by KOKBILLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jukester Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Nix has been a disappointment. His biggest failure is that he trusted Gailey too much regarding the QB position. Gailey was sold on Fitz after the first 6 games of 2011 and convinced Nix to extend him. From that point forward, Nix's priority was defense and WR before addressing QB because they were convinced they could be a playoff team in 2012 with Fitz as the undisputed starter. It unraveled quickly this past year as expectations didn't come to fruition. And why they didn't cut Thigpen when they traded for TJax is beyond my understanding. Waste of a roster spot. Nervermind the fact that he passed on Wilson, but to have drafted TJ Graham (projected in 7th rd or FA) in the third round in itself is grounds for dismissal...and he traded up to do it! All of us were dumbfounded when the pick came in. Many of us (including me) tried to see the positive side of it and give it the benefit of the doubt but time has a way of slapping you back to reality. Hope all the reports of Nix bowing out gracefully after the draft are true. Would've preferred it to happen right after the Marrone hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 We had Brian Brohm, a former 2nd round pick on our roster year one, he failed, Levi Brown was drafted, failed, Thigpen had played for Gailey but he didnt work out and then he brought in VY, that didnt work and they broght Tjax in. Clearly none of these worked but I hardly call it "ignoring" the position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) We had Brian Brohm, a former 2nd round pick on our roster year one, he failed, Levi Brown was drafted, failed, Thigpen had played for Gailey but he didnt work out and then he brought in VY, that didnt work and they broght Tjax in. Clearly none of these worked but I hardly call it "ignoring" the position "Ignored" perhaps is not the right word. It is more accurate to say that Nix failed to invest any real assets in trying to improve the position. Brohm and VY were free agents who had been released. Brown was a 7th round pick and Tjax was obtained for a 7th rounder. That constitutes a failure to invest in the future of the franchise at a position of extreme importance and need. Other franchises that were less needy invested far more trying to improve at QB. Those franchises have reaped significant return on their investments. Edited January 24, 2013 by mannc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 We had Brian Brohm, a former 2nd round pick on our roster year one, he failed, Levi Brown was drafted, failed, Thigpen had played for Gailey but he didnt work out and then he brought in VY, that didnt work and they broght Tjax in. Clearly none of these worked but I hardly call it "ignoring" the position No matter how you spin it, the handling of the QB position turned out to be a disaster. If we use your reasoning that the position wasn't ignored, it was just that the players who were here didn't work out - then what does it say about the talent evaluation capacity of the supposed professionals that the only QB candidates on the roster in the last 8 years have been guys who could not crack a NFL roster? Brohm was picked off a practice squad, Brown was a late draft pick, Thigpen was cast off by two bad teams, Young was on the street, and TJ was demoted to 3rd string. Yes, the position was addressed by 2nd and 3rd tier players, and holding on to them when it was obvious that they can't play in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Information and draft status also comes in a lot of mysterious ways. http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/01/23/harbaugh-road-tested-kaepernick-in-2011/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 i thought you were smarter than that. There are several different kinds of back-up QBs. Tavaris Jackson is one of the better back-up QBs to have, which was the question you asked and I answered. I assume you know that, and I assume you know why he didn't play or dress. John Schneider and Pete Carroll, the prescient geniuses that were so smart to draft Russell Wilson, signed Jackson the year before, to be a starter, before realizing he should be a back-up. Some back-ups, like Charlie Batch and Leftwich, for example, are extremely valuable to a team. You don't want them as your #1 guy and starter, you want them in case of disaster. The bottom line with T. Jackson is that he is an inconsequential qb. Whether he has utility as a backup is not a major issue. There are plenty of similar type middling talents who can fill the same role. Fitz can just as well, if not better, fill the backup role. Whether T. Jackson leaves or not will have little bearing on how the Bills will perform next year. He is the type of qb who will probably play for a lot of teams at the bare minimum. He is a vagabound type player not worth arguing over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Back that up with numbers, please. Mario williams's numbers!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) We had Brian Brohm, a former 2nd round pick on our roster year one, he failed, Levi Brown was drafted, failed, Thigpen had played for Gailey but he didnt work out and then he brought in VY, that didnt work and they broght Tjax in. Clearly none of these worked but I hardly call it "ignoring" the position Buddy Nix has repeatedly and specifically identified a need for a long-term starter at quarterback, sometimes even while endorsing Fitx as the current starter. (Something along the lines of, "we love Fitz, but he's not young. We want a guy who can step in when he's gone and start for 10, 12 years.") None of your above examples should be considered an attempt to address Nix's own stated need. He didn't bring in Brohm. 7th-rounders are drafted as camp fodder, and it's a pleasant surprise when they make the team. There's no sane way to claim that Levi Brown was a legit attempt to find a franchise guy, any more than buying a Powerball ticket could be considered responsible retirement planning. Thigpen and Young were brought in as veteran backups in case Fitz got hurt. There was no thought of either challenging Fitz for the starting job or being handed the reins once Fitz got old. This was made abundantly clear by the team when each was signed. T-Jack is just weird, because the team wasn't as clear about why they traded for him, and I don't think I've ever heard of a guy being traded for and then being a healthy scratch for all 16 games. If you want proof of the Bills' dysfunction, there you have it. In any case, T-Jack was never given an opportunity to compete for playing time this year, and at 29 years old, couldn't be considered a long-term option. I would put this acquisition into the same category as Thigpen and Young So while Nix has made a few attempts to address the Bills' backup QB situation, he has made only one move to address the Bills' starting QB situation in the short or long term: Namely, giving Ryan Fitzpatrick a contract extension. Other than that, he has completely ignored the starting QB position. He's payed a lot of lip service to addressing that position, but hasn't actually made any acquisitions. Edited January 24, 2013 by Cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Buddy Nix has repeatedly and specifically identified a need for a long-term starter at quarterback, sometimes even while endorsing Fitx as the current starter. (Something along the lines of, "we love Fitz, but he's not young. We want a guy who can step in when he's gone and start for 10, 12 years.") None of your above examples should be considered an attempt to address Nix's own stated need. He didn't bring in Brohm. 7th-rounders are drafted as camp fodder, and it's a pleasant surprise when they make the team. There's no sane way to claim that Levi Brown was a legit attempt to find a franchise guy, any more than buying a Powerball ticket could be considered responsible retirement planning. Thigpen and Young were brought in as veteran backups in case Fitz got hurt. There was no thought of either challenging Fitz for the starting job or being handed the reins once Fitz got old. This was made abundantly clear by the team when each was signed. T-Jack is just weird, because the team wasn't as clear about why they traded for him, and I don't think I've ever heard of a guy being traded for and then being a healthy scratch for all 16 games. If you want proof of the Bills' dysfunction, there you have it. In any case, T-Jack was never given an opportunity to compete for playing time this year, and at 29 years old, couldn't be considered a long-term option. I would put this acquisition into the same category as Thigpen and Young So while Nix has made a few attempts to address the Bills' backup QB situation, he has made only one move to address the Bills' starting QB situation in the short or long term: Namely, giving Ryan Fitzpatrick a contract extension. Other than that, he has completely ignored the starting QB position. He's payed a lot of lip service to addressing that position, but hasn't actually made any acquisitions. I didn't say it was the right way to do it, just noting that it was not ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Information and draft status also comes in a lot of mysterious ways. http://blog.sfgate.c...ernick-in-2011/ That is serious due diligence by Harbaugh. Maybe we need to send Jim Kelly out to challenge prospective QBs. Maybe the Bills just need to do more homework. If they did, I am sure we wouldn't be having conversations about Brian Brohm, Levi Brown and Tyler Thigpen. I didn't say it was the right way to do it, just noting that it was not ignored. And this begs THEE most important question for the Bills franchise: Does anyone at OBD know what a good QB looks like?? Seriously. I'm not sure we have anyone on the staff with that expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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