jonramz Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 Not trying to pile on the OP, but I agree with those who call B.S. on the notion Spiller isn't in the game b/c of his pass blocking. That doesn't explain the lack of CARRIES, nor does it explain the empty backfield sets. Gailey has outsmarted himself with respect to Spiller, and for the life of me I can't figure out why. The pass pro deficiencies are the only logical reason I can come up with about why he isn't on the field more. Everyone knows that fatigue is a bunch of BS and this seems to be the only thing that makes sense to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The pass pro deficiencies are the only logical reason I can come up with about why he isn't on the field more. Everyone knows that fatigue is a bunch of BS and this seems to be the only thing that makes sense to me It would also be reasonable to lie about. Though anyone watching film likely picks it up "we don't trust him blocking" is a far more dangerous statement than "he was winded" Only major downside is coaching in this message board/social media world gets what used to be a throw away comment like that hyper-analyzed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The onus is still on gailey to work around CJ's (only?) limitation and keep him on the field more. Perhaps more designed runs? Or maybe more 2 back or H-back formations? Less spread sets? Any of those might help ameliorate Spiller's pass protection struggles. Spiller's increased struggles this past game might also have been due to the patchwork line the Bills had to trot out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Yeah there was something wrong... not sure who messed up, but CJ should have at least hit someone. I think CJ is an amazing back... and this is the only logical thing I can think of about why he isn't on the field more There's our problem. We are trying to equate the Bills with logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Why not take advantage of the situations? So CJ cant block well, why not have both Fred and CJ in the backfield instead of going 4 or 5 wide. If you need to go 4 wide, CJ is more than capable of doing that. Keep Fred in the backfield. This will also help with teams stacking the box, if bothe are in the backfield pre snap, then CJ motions out wide. Or you hand of to Fred sometimes. Point is, CJ is dynamic and by keeping him off the field you are eliminating an explosive part of the offense. A good coach would find ways to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) Darren Sproles is only on the field in passing situations. You play to your strength. You dont really want Spiller pass blocking, you want him making plays. Line him up at RB/WR/Slot. I would hardly ever have him blocking. Edited December 11, 2012 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Your break down is no great surprise. Fred is one of the best blocking RBs in the league, so it stands to reason that there is a dropoff between him and CJ in that department. Gailey could solve that problem by staying committed to the running game, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I have some thoroughbred horses that are so fast they could win every race but if they can't plow the field and pull the wagon then I won't let them race- I lose millions but I stay true to philosophy, my neighbors say I could use my winnings to buy a tractor and a truck but they just don't understand the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) CJ has gotten much better at pass pro over the years. And no i dont want him learning in the middle of the game. He struggled against Rams awesome defense and our newly starting C and LT. Jon good observation and i think you are right. As far as Gaileys thinking goes anyways. I consider Spiller barely adequate at picking up the blitz, but he can chip well enough. The rest of the season might well prove him out again. Pass pro is going to be a challenge for the team for rest of the year Because we only have one RB lets just go to a pro set and see if we can pound the ball behind C-mac for awhile. CJ will break one soon enough. He always does. And being winded bullcarp.... Here comes 25 carries. Let the receivers tap out. not CJ. go bills. Edited December 11, 2012 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mabden Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Whether or not it is smart or not to keep him on the bench. CJ Spiller is really bad in pass protection. Like seriously bad. Teams are starting to blitz more when CJ is in there in obvious passing situations, so not only does this prevent him from running a pattern b/c he has to stay in and block, but it also gets a blitzer matched up on a sub-par blocker. Teams do this a lot against the Saints as well... but they have Brees who can make plays better than Fitz can. It was a bigger problem than usual on Sunday b/c of all backups on the OL going against a good Rams DL. If you get a chance watch what happens when CJ has to stay in and block... it's not pretty. CJ definitely needs the ball more... but this is my reasoning on why he is out of the game so much. -Jon The counter to this argument, is if they are actually noticing that defenses blitz more when Spiller is on the field in obvious passing downs, then you just throw quick screens to Spiller. Not sure if it's related but I did hear Coach Gailey say after the game that when CJ is in teams are stacking 9 in the box to stop him. He and Fred both did get stuffed quite a bit in the Lambs game. They both had a couple of nice runs and a bunch of 1 yard or less runs. Barry Sanders had almost as many negative runs as he did positive runs. Yet, he was on the field all the time and is a HOF running back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Well. That great problem to have... we dont have any more Chan. No need to split reps anymore. I am a lone Chan fan. But i want to see players in the backfield at the snap more often against Seahawks. Preferably Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I didn't read the break down you posted. Nor should I or any of us here care. We're talking about a RB that has the highest average yards per attempt since Jim FREAKING Brown!!! Who cares about the pass protection. His job is to run the football and he's not getting that chance. I don't care how bad he is in pass protection. You need him out in the field as much as possible. Defenses, defensive coaches, head coaches all lose sleep over trying to account for CJ. When they see he's not on the field, they cream a little bit in their pants. We are handicapping ourself. End if story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I didn't read the break down you posted. Nor should I or any of us here care. We're talking about a RB that has the highest average yards per attempt since Jim FREAKING Brown!!! Who cares about the pass protection. His job is to run the football and he's not getting that chance. I don't care how bad he is in pass protection. You need him out in the field as much as possible. Defenses, defensive coaches, head coaches all lose sleep over trying to account for CJ. When they see he's not on the field, they cream a little bit in their pants. We are handicapping ourself. End if story. You seem to have an issue where you express opinions about a caricature of the sport of football, but mistakenly conflate the caricature with real football. It's weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Your break down is no great surprise. True. He's never been good in pass pro. Fred is one of the best blocking RBs in the league, so it stands to reason that there is a dropoff between him and CJ in that department. I think Jon's statement is a bit stronger than that. If Jackson is truly the best blitz pickup guy in the NFL, then CJ being poor in pass pro is more than a little drop off, no? Gailey could solve that problem by staying committed to the running game, right? I don't think it's any great secret that Chan is trying to play match-up football. If the defense drops 8 in the box, he's going to want to throw. If they drop back in coverage, he's going to run it. The trouble is that it isn't a secret anymore than he wants to split carries between CJ and Fred. Def.Coor. know what he wants to do, so when CJ is on the field -- guess what -- they stack the box. Chan will probably try to throw it, CJ is poor in pass pro, and if they run it the odds are good you'll get ahead of Chan in down and distance. When Fred is on the field, the defense plays a little more honest and Chan calls a few more running plays. The statistics suggest Chan is favoring the passing game, then Fred, and lastly CJ, when he's trying to take what the defense is "giving" him. All of which is not to defend Chan or suggest he's doing a great job. His record is abundantly clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 CJ has improved some, but yea, he is pretty bad in pass protection. I am a huge Fred Jackson fan, but I still think CJ should have gotten more carries then the few he had. You don't need to pass protect to hand him the ball? Somehow other teams manage to keep a RB on the field who is great at running but not top notch at pass protection. They bring in 2 TE or (if they have one on the team) a FB Since we basically only have ~3 reasonable receiving threats on the roster right now, is there really a reason not to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Whether or not it is smart or not to keep him on the bench. CJ Spiller is really bad in pass protection. Like seriously bad. Teams are starting to blitz more when CJ is in there in obvious passing situations, so not only does this prevent him from running a pattern b/c he has to stay in and block, but it also gets a blitzer matched up on a sub-par blocker. Teams do this a lot against the Saints as well... but they have Brees who can make plays better than Fitz can. It was a bigger problem than usual on Sunday b/c of all backups on the OL going against a good Rams DL. If you get a chance watch what happens when CJ has to stay in and block... it's not pretty. CJ definitely needs the ball more... but this is my reasoning on why he is out of the game so much. -Jon Just hand him the friggin ball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 This is typical.... The reality is that this year OVERALL, Spiller is MASSIVELY improved in pass protection and has done a fine job with it (yes better than average). The OP still is right in a sense because Spiller was not as good in pass protection during the Rams game specifically. This does not excuse the coaches from some of the other games where Spiller got less than acceptable touches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 How many plays did CJ play this past Sunday and how many times was Fitz knocked on his arse? Do the math. But IF you want to believe excuses like - He gets winded blocking on Blitzes. The Defense improves and the O digresses!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I don't think he's that bad in pass protection at all. Is Fred better? Sure. But CJ isn't much worse than the average NFL RB. Man, I really like Spiller, but it's painfully obvious that he can't pass block. To the point where I almost wish they wouldn't try it with him, a better use of him would be to just send him outside the pocket as a dump off. And yes, Fred Jackson is infinitely better at pass blocking. I would certainly say he is above average in that respect for a RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzShowUsYourTitz Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Oh man, I disagree strongly... Fred in my opinion one of the best RB's in the NFL in pass pro. CJ on the other hand, makes mistakes and when he does pick up the correct guy he is often time overpowered and gets pushed back really easily. Exactly... we all know it's not fatigue, but Chan isn't going to throw his best offensive weapon under the bus either Yes. Good OP and this ^^^^ Fred Excels and CJ, not soo much. But the idea of an extra OL or TE and a few power runs wouldn't make us worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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