MDH Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It's as though certain plaintiffs' attorneys see players as unwilling participants, etc. This. People who think the NFL is doing this because they genuinely care about this idea of "player safety" are fooling themselves. The NFL is making changes to the game to protect themselves from liability. It's already started with past players suing the league. The NFL is making these changes to prevent injury to prevent litigation. And if litigation does come they can point to all they did to make the sport as safe as possible. So stop blaming Goodell. He's doing what he thinks needs to be done to save the future of the sport. Without these types of changes the NFL would have been sued into oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Well, they asked Buddy about this topic this morning on WGR. He said he's an old traditionalist and prefers the game as it is... but acknowledges this idea (or something like it) will continue to gain momentum in league meetings. So from that I guess eliminating kickoffs is not as far fetched as I would have thought. Buddy said the Bills have lost 2 guys for the year while covering kickoffs (Chris White and Lee Smith). Said you can't eliminate injuries though. Edited December 7, 2012 by zow2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49er Fan Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Why are they trying to take kickoffs out of the game? Do players really get hurt that much on kickoffs? It can be one the most exciting plays in football. Put the spot to kickoff back to where it used to be and stop this nonsense. I agree with this - seems like a very high number of kickers today can power kick-offs out of the end zone very easily. To me there's something wrong when the ball is kicked so well that it touches down past the goal-post. Just keep moving it back and back further until only 1 or 2 kickers in the entire league can actually reach the end zone. You could tweak the other rules like kicking out of bounds results in the ball at the 50, same with recovering an on-side kick. Edited December 7, 2012 by 49er Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Not true, it was called football before we had the modern dimensions http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/06/the-origin-of-the-word-soccer/ This is good stuff. I have friends in the UK that rag on me all the time about why we call our sport football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfaninky Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Three words: "What a joke" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinWPB Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Punts instead of kickoffs.......Quess we better ink Mckelvin a few more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 stealing this from nfl memes but Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Sean Gregory of TIME writes that one of the options being considered for replacing kickoffs entails giving the ball to the team that would have been kicking off at its own 30, automatically facing a fourth down and 15 yards to go. The team can then choose to punt or go for it, via fake punt or otherwise. In other words, the kickoff would be replaced with the punt, and the onside kick would be replaced with a fourth-down conversion roughly half the distance of Ray Rice’s recent catch-and-run. http://profootballta...acing-kickoffs/ It's not the worst idea I've ever heard. There would actually be many MORE returns than there are now ( I doubt this really improves safety in the long run, even if they are punts instead). It would make things more exciting. There are however some serious negatives IMO. 1) I don't like the 4th and 15 idea, seems way easier than an onside kick in situations where it is the obvious decision (late in games, not surprise mid game onside kicks). 2) It fundamentally changes the game, games will be higher scoring, because teams would start with far better field position if they are punting from the 30 every time. It would make having a good PR such as McKelvin, that much more important. 3) Guys are still going to get hurt, because there will be FAR more returns then there are now, even if they are supposedly a "safer" kind of return. Plus, IT'S EFFING FOOTBALL! It will never be 100% safe. 4) I'm against it on the grounds that you shouldn't drastically change part of the game that has been around since it's inception. "Get ready for the Bills puntoff at 1:05 on Sunday!" Edited December 7, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Onside kicks in the NFL are successful 26% of the time. It’s true, but it’s also very misleading. Onside kick success rates are very dependent on whether the receiving team is expecting one. When teams are expecting it, the success rate is about 20%. But when teams aren’t expecting it, the success rate averages 60%. http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/onside-kicks.html the same folks analyzed 4th & 15.....and claim about a 20% success rate.... http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/4th-down-study-part-3.html \thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 So far, the only opposition to the idea has come in the form of excessively macho chest-thumping. Does anyone have a reasonable point as to why the idea is bad, and not just an office space video, arguments about "pussification", or general chauvinisim? It's really easy to tell the players to suck it up when you're not the guy that is consistently involved in high-speed collisions with other 250-lb maniacs you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) So far, the only opposition to the idea has come in the form of excessively macho chest-thumping. Does anyone have a reasonable point as to why the idea is bad, and not just an office space video, arguments about "pussification", or general chauvinisim? It's really easy to tell the players to suck it up when you're not the guy that is consistently involved in high-speed collisions with other 250-lb maniacs you know... Football is an excessively macho game. That's the reason most people watch football. To answer your question though is why fix something that isn't broke? Why change the staple of a classic American sport? It would be the equivalent of making being hit by a pitch in baseball an automatic run, or taking away fighting in the NHL. It might seem arbitrary but the kickoff is a staple of football. It was horrible when they moved it to the 35 yard line, and eliminating it alltogether would be even worse for this viewer. The truth is people like what they like. I enjoy football not for airshow arena style points being scored. I watch football for the same reason I played it growing up until college. I enjoyed hitting/watching people get hit. It's exciting and fun. From a players perspective special teams are not irrelevant. It's a way for people to make a name for themselves whether they're on coverage or return units. Running down the field with the only intention to knock the block off someone. Not many things in this world beat that feeling. Especially when it gets you noticed and increases your opportunities in other areas. Eliminating kickoffs would be a huge disservice to backup players hoping to make a name for themselves. As well as a huge disservice to traditional fans of football. Or put it this way. There will never be another Steve Tasker in the NFL. That is a huge disservice to any fan of the game who doesn't have the opportunity to watch that. Edited December 7, 2012 by Stealth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Eliminating kickoffs would be a huge disservice to backup players hoping to make a name for themselves. As well as a huge disservice to traditional fans of football. Yeah, if they eliminated Kick offs, us Bills fans would never have gotten to see the awesomeness of Easley last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Football is an excessively macho game. That's the reason most people watch football. To answer your question though is why fix something that isn't broke? Why change the staple of a classic American sport? It would be the equivalent of making being hit by a pitch in baseball an automatic run, or taking away fighting in the NHL. It might seem arbitrary but the kickoff is a staple of football. It was horrible when they moved it to the 35 yard line, and eliminating it alltogether would be even worse for this viewer. The truth is people like what they like. I enjoy football not for airshow arena style points being scored. I watch football for the same reason I played it growing up until college. I enjoyed hitting/watching people get hit. It's exciting and fun. From a players perspective special teams are not irrelevant. It's a way for people to make a name for themselves whether they're on coverage or return units. Running down the field with the only intention to knock the block off someone. Not many things in this world beat that feeling. Especially when it gets you noticed and increases your opportunities in other areas. Eliminating kickoffs would be a huge disservice to backup players hoping to make a name for themselves. As well as a huge disservice to traditional fans of football. Or put it this way. There will never be another Steve Tasker in the NFL. That is a huge disservice to any fan of the game who doesn't have the opportunity to watch that. The problem with your opening statement is that you assume the kickoff isn't broken solely based on entertainment value. If you consider player safety, it's a relative disaster. Consider: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/07/schianos-idea-for-kickoffs-traces-to-legrand-injur/ One of the things that when I was researching I think it was like in the kickoff rules 17 percent of the catastrophic in juries happened on kickoffs. Yet it is only about six percent of the plays in the game. Almost 1 in 5 major injuries in the sport occur on the kickoff...that's broken if you ask me. As to the remainder of your point, nobody is talking about eliminating special teams, hitting, tackling, or anything like that. I guess I just don't see the major problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 stealing this from nfl memes but High-larius!!! Onside kicks in the NFL are successful 26% of the time. It’s true, but it’s also very misleading. Onside kick success rates are very dependent on whether the receiving team is expecting one. When teams are expecting it, the success rate is about 20%. But when teams aren’t expecting it, the success rate averages 60%. http://www.advancedn...side-kicks.html the same folks analyzed 4th & 15.....and claim about a 20% success rate.... http://www.advancedn...udy-part-3.html It's about time you brought us something interesting. Seriously though, it's ironic to me that the proposal was dreamed up not by Goodell, but by Bucs HC Greg Schiano, the guy who's come under heavy criticism for his strategy of sending an all out blitz during "Victory Formation" snaps. On one hand he's increasing the risk of injury in the game and on the other, he's thinking of ways to make the game safer. Here's a more recent PFT blurb on the subject: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/07/schianos-idea-for-kickoffs-traces-to-legrand-injur/ "On Friday, Schiano talked about the idea in a session with the media. “That happened before I was head coach of the Bucs,” Schiano said, via PewterReport.com. “It happened when I was still at Rutgers. I was with Commissioner Goodell and we were talking about it. He expressed his concern about the health of the players in relation to the kickoff play. Certainly with my experience with Eric LeGrand I had similar feelings.” LeGrand, a former Rutgers (and, technically, Buccaneers) player, suffered paralysis as a result of a neck injury during a kickoff return." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 It's a bizarre idea. No team is going to go for a 4th and 15 on their own 30 after scoring. They will punt. What's the difference then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Has Buffalo Barbarian weighed in yet? I think he wanted to completely eliminate kickers from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djp14150 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 If the kickoff is to be removed....then these changes need to be made.... 1. If not under 2 minutes to go in the half/game then under 1 minute to go....after every play the clock is stopped. Thus no need for time outs... 2. This means the time outs drop from 3 to 2 per half or 3 for the entire game 3. With challenges it means you get charged a 5 minute delay of game penalty instead of the time out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 After getting a full explanation of how it works and really thinking about it I think it would be a better option than having the majprity of kicks kneeled down in the endzone. Plus if you have a good offense with a good QB you have better chance of converting 4th and 15 then recovering an on side kick. Manipulating Goodell on this point is the first step in my master plan of eliminating the kicking game altogether Has Buffalo Barbarian weighed in yet? I think he wanted to completely eliminate kickers from the game. At first I said no but now I realize my plan is coming to fruition. It's a bizarre idea. No team is going to go for a 4th and 15 on their own 30 after scoring. They will punt. What's the difference then? not if you are down a score with a few minutes to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Replace the kickoff by having the head coaches play it out on Madden on the scoreboard. They have to use backups as they would for real, so they couldn't play a starter like Adrian Peterson. Maybe it would convince the Bills to hire a younger coach. Change field goals so they get 1 point for 1-19 yards, 2 for 20-29, 3 for 30-49, and 4 for 50+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 is it really that horrible of an idea? frankly it sounds like fun...except for that our defense would never get off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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