PromoTheRobot Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 well, if the parable fits. this citation represents further proof of what we all (mostly) know. wilson is the source of our pain as fans. the players know it. the coaches know it. the gm's know it....and i think ralph knows it. but he doesn't care. he's selling entertainment and he knows buffalonians and expatriated buffalonians will take 2nd or 3rd best or even, in several years, the absolute worst. good business? maybe. honorable and admirable? not by me. I don't think Ralph meddled much in the last 2 years. Also, as much as us Bills fans like to believe we have the worst of everything, half of fans of other NFL teams think their owner is the worst. Ask Chiefs fans what they think about Lamar Hunt? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I don't think Ralph meddled much in the last 2 years. Also, as much as us Bills fans like to believe we have the worst of everything, half of fans of other NFL teams think their owner is the worst. Ask Chiefs fans what they think about Lamar Hunt? PTR misery loves company...add that to my truisms. comparing bad to worse never results in success. not that we have a choice but shouldn't we make comparisons to the best organizations. here's an analogy - radio shack versus amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 misery loves company...add that to my truisms. comparing bad to worse never results in success. not that we have a choice but shouldn't we make comparisons to the best organizations. here's an analogy - radio shack versus amazon. Whatever. We are the worst! Feel better? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I for one, was not a Flutie guy, but it was hard to argue with his record...but that season Flutie was playing dreadfully the last 6 or 7 games, and his arm appeared to be getting weaker by the week. It almost seemed like it was getting to the point that they were winning in spite of him, rather than because of him. I am not sure I would have made the move that Ralph (apparently) ordered right before the playoffs, but I won't say I wasn't kind of excited about it at the time. I felt the same way but still would have stuck with Flutie. There is no way that was the right move, the thing that gets lost is that Wade didn't HAVE to do it, would RW have fired him right then? I kind of doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I was a Flutie fan and I do agree that the end of the 99 season Fluties performances were mediocre. His arm was tiring and teams had figured out ways to defend against his style of QBing.However the team was still winning and was 6-2 in the last 8 games! If it wasnt for the "4th and Stupid" play against the NYG and a craptastic perfomance against the Jets (both winnable games) they would have hosted a playoff game. The playoffs was not the time to change Qbs. Johnson had not proven anything to anybody with his 1 game "allstar" performance even despite Fluties diminishing success. A coach with more backbone would have stood up to Wilson and said I will quit if you meddle in my running of the team. But good ole boy Gomer Philipps just said "Yessum sir" and folded. What a joke. what a great way to instil some "confidence" in the team. Now all that being said, the "statue" did perform admirably in the 2nd half of that game and almost pulled it out. However had Flutie been in the first half (after a week's rest) the Bills might have controlled that game. Remember RJ was sacked 6 times in the first half!! You cannot tell me that Flutie would have done worse in that half than RJ did. RJ only had a week to take the snaps and get into the rhythm of the offence. What kind of idiot would allow him to go into hostile environment like that stadium and start a playoff game? Seriously one of the worst decisions that this franchise has ever made and solid proof that Wade (although a superb defensive coordinator) was not and never will be head coaching material! Sorry didn't see this post, same point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 No wonder why no gm or coach wants to work here then. Grego wanted to come here and he was highly respected, also Marvin Lewis and John Fox interviewed so all this talk about High profile guys not wanting to come here is BS. The reason guys don't want to come here now is bc of uncertainty abt future ownership and location. Also not having a Franchise QB is a big deterrent, look at Jeff Fisher He chose the Rams bc of Bradford whereas Miami didn't have Tannehill yet so he went to St. Louis. If We had a Bress or Rodgers we would have much better chance of Getting Great coaches in here. Let's put things in perspective. Wiley was good friends with Flutie. Rob Johnson is not the reason why we "lost" the game against the Titans. People also seem to forget about Flutie's performance at the end of the playoff game in Miami against the Dolphins. And Rob played a really Good game, don't know why he sucked latter but that playoff game he was spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellaman101 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Im just going to flat out say this. The Buffalo Bills were going to the Super Bowl that season. The D was AWESOME! The O rallied around Doug, the media loved the Bills and Doug! Thats just my 2 cents but I think the Bills were magic that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 And Rob played a really Good game, don't know why he sucked latter but that playoff game he was spot on. "Rob" was 10-22 for 131 yards so I don't know about "spot on." Antowain Smith had 2 rushing TDs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Every failure this team has had, and every success, starts and ends with one man. Karma is a B word. http://espn.go.com/e...geles/play?s=la (In the noon block, somewhere around 12:07 mark) This was one time, the owner definitely meddled...But why is that being extended to say that he is responsible for every other failure of this team... In defense of Ralph, the wins in 1999 came due to a stout defense and game management by Flutie. Flutie stunk up the joint in quite a few games. It is not as if Flutie was a franchise QB. And to Rob's defense, he won that game for us before our esteemed special teams blew it. Stop blaming Ralph for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanofFredJackson Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ralph Wilson is the number one person most responsible for why the Bills are such a lousy organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 "Rob" was 10-22 for 131 yards so I don't know about "spot on." Antowain Smith had 2 rushing TDs though. What were Air McNair's stats in that game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 If it wasnt for the "4th and Stupid" play against the NYG I don't remember this. Can you please refresh my memory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Whatever. We are the worst! Feel better? PTR Probably the polar opposite of the feeling that this franchise & its management can do no wrong. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Yeah. The people here who hate Flutie is beyond me. The guy just won everywhere he went. Cannot even believe people liked Johnson at all - ever. At least while he was with the Bills. Some hate facts, I guess. Or maybe they have a short person problem. The guy won. No time in history did a QB lead a team to the playoffs, then not start. Except under Ralph. But Ralph's great. I mean he spends $$ every 10 years. When he HAS to. And then folks say.... A fish rots from the head down. I will say, I hated Flutie before he ever donned a Bills uniform, and threw-up in my mouth a little when the Bills signed him, He was, for me, the most difficult Buffalo Bill to root for. The stories I heard, once he was in Buffalo, didn't make me like him any more. But, all that said, he was an exciting alternative to RJ. Flutie, maybe because of this size, was an opportunist wherever he went. He was braught to Buffalo to add some vetran mentoring to Rob Johnson who was, for better or worse, the desgnated new "franchise QB". RJ had superior physical skills, but once Flutie realized he was lacking in confidence, he pounced, and made the team his own... great competitor Flutie, but maybe not the best teammate. I know guys like Wiley and Bruce liked him, cuz their defensive efforts weren't going to waste. But get Thurman or Andre Reed off the record, and I bet they won't have as many flattering things to say. Talk to the guys he played with in Chicago. Talk to his fellow players union members who he crossed the picket line on, so he could get his chance to flex his superior skills against bartenders and former all-state high school players. I am always conflicted when it comes to Flutie. I am not blind enough to say he didn't give us some thrills, or that he was a better QB than Rob Johnson. Strictly as a player, what I was always amazed by, as unorthodox as he was, and as physically small as he was, he had remarkable control of the ball, and was very careful with the ball. Not to say he didn't turn it over a time or two, but for some of the crazy stuff he did, he really didn't turn it over all that much. But, while he was our starting QB, I always had this feeling that we were doing it with smoke and mirrors, and the wizard would finally be exposed when it hurt the most. One of the most exhilerating moments, post Kelly era, was Fluties winning TD run against the Jags. Everyone remembers it. It was the launching point of "Flutopia" in WNY. But I will never forget, in the afterglow, as little Dougie basked in the lime-light, how he threw his HOF teammate under the bus...and Thurman wasn't happy about it. He made a point of telling everyone that Thurman "was supposed to take the handoff, but missed the call" (or something like that) " so being mighty mouse, I had no choice but to take matters into my own hands, and save the day"...if you look at that play, it is pretty obvious that Flutie had no intention of handing that ball off to anyone, even for a split second. Also, the notion that Flutie "saved the Bills" is pretty laughable, but it made good headlines at the time. A decision like that, particularly at a time when the Bills were still fairly relevant as a franchise, wouldn't come down to how many games they won or lost in their "contract season". Edited October 10, 2012 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I will say, I hated Flutie before he ever donned a Bills uniform, and threw-up in my mouth a little when the Bills signed him, He was, for me, the most difficult Buffalo Bill to root for. The stories I heard, once he was in Buffalo, didn't make me like him any more. But, all that said, he was an exciting alternative to RJ. Flutie, maybe because of this size, was an opportunist wherever he went. He was braught to Buffalo to add some vetran mentoring to Rob Johnson who was, for better or worse, the desgnated new "franchise QB". RJ had superior physical skills, but once Flutie realized he was lacking in confidence, he pounced, and made the team his own... great competitor Flutie, but maybe not the best teammate. I know guys like Wiley and Bruce liked him, cuz their defensive efforts weren't going to waste. But get Thurman or Andre Reed off the record, and I bet they won't have as many flattering things to say. Talk to the guys he played with in Chicago. Talk to his fellow players union members who he crossed the picket line on, so he could get his chance to flex his superior skills against bartenders and former all-state high school players. I am always conflicted when it comes to Flutie. I am not blind enough to say he didn't give us some thrills, or that he was a better QB than Rob Johnson. Strictly as a player, what I was always amazed by, as unorthodox as he was, and as physically small as he was, he had remarkable control of the ball, and was very careful with the ball. Not to say he didn't turn it over a time or two, but for some of the crazy stuff he did, he really didn't turn it over all that much. But, while he was our starting QB, I always had this feeling that we were doing it with smoke and mirrors, and the wizard would finally be exposed when it hurt the most. One of the most exhilerating moments, post Kelly era, was Fluties winning TD run against the Jags. Everyone remembers it. It was the launching point of "Flutopia" in WNY. But I will never forget, in the afterglow, as little Dougie basked in the lime-light, how he threw his HOF teammate under the bus...and Thurman wasn't happy about it. He made a point of telling everyone that Thurman "was supposed to take the handoff, but missed the call" (or something like that) " so being mighty mouse, I had no choice but to take matters into my own hands, and save the day"...if you look at that play, it is pretty obvious that Flutie had no intention of handing that ball off to anyone, even for a split second. Also, the notion that Flutie "saved the Bills" is pretty laughable, but it made good headlines at the time. A decision like that, particularly at a time when the Bills were still fairly relevant as a franchise, wouldn't come down to how many games they won or lost in their "contract season". Excellent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyHorseAteTheKid Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 It's an old subject, but the first time I've heard Wiley talk about it. On Wiley's radio show here in LA they were discussing the Tebow vs Sanchez debate and whether starting Tebow would mean the end of Rex Ryan in New York. Wiley was asked by John Ireland what he would do if he was Rex Ryan and Woody Johnson walked into his office and told him to start Tebow over Sanchez. This is what Wiley said (transcribed poorly): "Ralph Wilson did the same thing to us in Buffalo with Wade Philips. Wade Phillips walks into our locker room and says, 'Look, we're going to start Rob Johnson the last game of the season, in a meaningless game where we rest Doug Flutie.' We say 'fine.' Rob Johnson goes out there throws three touchdowns, three hundred yards and the owner says I want to see that money out there on the field in the playoffs. Wade Philips next week says, 'Guys, we have a change at quarterback' and we looked at him -- I mean you should have heard this locker room. Everyone starts screaming, 'What the hell?! What are you talking about' ... chain of command. We were all with Fluite. We had won 10 games with him. But chain of command." Every failure this team has had, and every success, starts and ends with one man. Karma is a B word. http://espn.go.com/e...geles/play?s=la (In the noon block, somewhere around 12:07 mark) Just relived a forgotten Nightmare.. Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Wade Philips next week says, 'Guys, we have a change at quarterback' and we looked at him -- I mean you should have heard this locker room. Everyone starts screaming, 'What the hell?! What are you talking about' ... chain of command. We were all with Fluite. We had won 10 games with him. But chain of command." Every failure this team has had, and every success, starts and ends with one man. Karma is a B word. 10 games in the regular season, and Flutie as he did in the past would have turned the ball over and we would have lost long before :14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 The reason guys don't want to come here now is bc of uncertainty abt future ownership 100% correct. No coach worth a damn would even consider Buffalo right now because of this, and that has been the case for a long time. I'm making a concerted effort to take a step back until this franchise is sold and new ownership is in place. Nothing is going to change for the better until then. I hope that it is in Buffalo because I won't follow the team anyplace else. RTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) I will say, I hated Flutie before he ever donned a Bills uniform, and threw-up in my mouth a little when the Bills signed him, He was, for me, the most difficult Buffalo Bill to root for. The stories I heard, once he was in Buffalo, didn't make me like him any more. But, all that said, he was an exciting alternative to RJ. Flutie, maybe because of this size, was an opportunist wherever he went. He was braught to Buffalo to add some vetran mentoring to Rob Johnson who was, for better or worse, the desgnated new "franchise QB". RJ had superior physical skills, but once Flutie realized he was lacking in confidence, he pounced, and made the team his own... great competitor Flutie, but maybe not the best teammate. I know guys like Wiley and Bruce liked him, cuz their defensive efforts weren't going to waste. But get Thurman or Andre Reed off the record, and I bet they won't have as many flattering things to say. Talk to the guys he played with in Chicago. Talk to his fellow players union members who he crossed the picket line on, so he could get his chance to flex his superior skills against bartenders and former all-state high school players. I am always conflicted when it comes to Flutie. I am not blind enough to say he didn't give us some thrills, or that he was a better QB than Rob Johnson. Strictly as a player, what I was always amazed by, as unorthodox as he was, and as physically small as he was, he had remarkable control of the ball, and was very careful with the ball. Not to say he didn't turn it over a time or two, but for some of the crazy stuff he did, he really didn't turn it over all that much. But, while he was our starting QB, I always had this feeling that we were doing it with smoke and mirrors, and the wizard would finally be exposed when it hurt the most. One of the most exhilerating moments, post Kelly era, was Fluties winning TD run against the Jags. Everyone remembers it. It was the launching point of "Flutopia" in WNY. But I will never forget, in the afterglow, as little Dougie basked in the lime-light, how he threw his HOF teammate under the bus...and Thurman wasn't happy about it. He made a point of telling everyone that Thurman "was supposed to take the handoff, but missed the call" (or something like that) " so being mighty mouse, I had no choice but to take matters into my own hands, and save the day"...if you look at that play, it is pretty obvious that Flutie had no intention of handing that ball off to anyone, even for a split second. Also, the notion that Flutie "saved the Bills" is pretty laughable, but it made good headlines at the time. A decision like that, particularly at a time when the Bills were still fairly relevant as a franchise, wouldn't come down to how many games they won or lost in their "contract season". I also agree that your post is spot on. As for your impression about what Thurman and Andre thought about him, I would invite anyone to ask them if they ever get a moment to speak to them privately. The other thing that bothered Bills and some fans about Flutie was his use of pronouns in post game press conferences. It was remarkable how often he said "we" after a loss and "I" after a win. That was particularly revealing of his attitude. Flutie had some very good games with the Bills. His presence though, in some respects, was destructive to the team and did things to the fan base that I had never seen before. We are still arguing about this to this day. I know I will probably get slammed by some for this, but I thought that Rob Johnson had the potential to be a very good QB for the Bills. I think that RJ's development as a QB was stunted by Flutie's presence as well as the pounding he took both on and off the field. It is funny how we have complained about our most recent QBs always checking down etc. Flutie checked down a lot too. RJ was the opposite of that. He could throw a great long ball and that is what he liked to do. As a result, he stood in the pocket and got the absolute **** kicked out of him. While some here would complain that he was a "wimp" etc., I, on the other hand, thought that he showed remarkable courage standing behind that offensive line -- especially given how he was fragged by the Flutopians in the fan base (and those people who were simply Flutie fans rather than Bills fans). One of the things that is somewhat interesting about the story is that RJ's mother originally was from Buffalo. Nevertheless, segments of the fan base and certainly the Flutie people never accepted him. While he was getting the **** kicked out of him playing for our team, some in the fan base cheered when he got hurt. As I said in another post, that was a watershed moment for me. I do not care how much money some of these guys are making, if you are getting the **** kicked out of you on and off the field, it has got to be tough. In the end, having both QBs on the same roster ended up being a detriment rather than a bonus. Just my two cents. Go Bills. Edited October 10, 2012 by Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Grego wanted to come here and he was highly respected, also Marvin Lewis and John Fox interviewed so all this talk about High profile guys not wanting to come here is BS. The reason guys don't want to come here now is bc of uncertainty abt future ownership and location. Also not having a Franchise QB is a big deterrent, look at Jeff Fisher He chose the Rams bc of Bradford whereas Miami didn't have Tannehill yet so he went to St. Louis. If We had a Bress or Rodgers we would have much better chance of Getting Great coaches in here. And Rob played a really Good game, don't know why he sucked latter but that playoff game he was spot on. That was back when the Bills had a very highly respected GM/Prez in TD. Once TD was dumped for Marv, clowntime began, and only mediocrities have been interested in the job. Even Meathead had enough sense to walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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