2013 QBs to watch

[bmur66]

I guessing you don't follow the game too closely, if you're asking that question

 

Mallett seems to be doing just fine, and has plenty of time to develop

 

(I doubt he's under any pressure to replace any time soon)

 

Link -Ryan Mallett makes impact; Auspicious outing by apprentice QB (Boston Herald)

 

 

Try watching him tonite against the Giants, and judge for yourself

 

I like the guy and I wish he was pushing Fitz.. The Bills could have drafted him in the 3rd round last year (we got Sheppard instead) and I also seem to recall rumors that the Pats had him on the trading block. Just another addition to the list of players that got away although he is still unproven at this point.

[NickelCity]

This is a good conversation. Up until now, I was happy with Nix not using a pick on a QB. There were bigger holes to fill.

 

But I really hope we take a QB in 2013. I like Fitz and he's better than some Bills QBs in recent memory. But he's no Jim Kelly and not in the Top Ten of the NFL today. I think the rest of the roster is strong enough now that QB becomes a draft weekend priority - and I hope Nix sees it the same way.

 

+1. Exactly how I feel.

[mob16151]

I should have clarified - tell me a current 2012 NFL qb that will be great in 2013 that isn't an obvious one (Rodgers, Brady, etc).

 

I'd keep an eye on Nick Foles in Philadelphia.

[Maury Ballstein]

I like what I hear about the redskins needing to make up draft picks for their RG3 trade away the farm deal........I also like the Logan Thomas talk especially if he improves.....He is a big boy in the Big Ben, Cam, Freeman type mold who runs hard and over defenders often.....

 

 

It's almost season time......maybe the Fitzster will validate that 60 mil contract (i hope).........either way would love to see Logan Thomas or Kirk Cousins aboard next year....

 

Barkley scares me as I think back on the USC Qb's lately........Sanchez, Rob Johnson, Marinovich, Carson Palmer***pre injury was good.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

http://espn.go.com/c...7/casey-pachall

 

vs.

 

http://espn.go.com/c...8025/geno-smith

 

a few things to add, Paschall not only failed a drug test, but also admitted to using marijuana, cocaine and ecstasy.

 

So

[dancing_joker]

I'd keep an eye on Nick Foles in Philadelphia.

 

Thanks!

[John from Riverside]

The excuses are done.....Fitz has to show he can do it this year....if not.....that first round pick HAS to be on a QB.....

 

We even brought in one of the best QB coaches in the business so everything is in place to groom a blue chip QB if Fitz falters

 

Personally.....I root for Fitz to be great because we could also use a coverage linebackder

[Tsaikotic]

I like what I hear about the redskins needing to make up draft picks for their RG3 trade away the farm deal........I also like the Logan Thomas talk especially if he improves.....He is a big boy in the Big Ben, Cam, Freeman type mold who runs hard and over defenders often.....

 

 

It's almost season time......maybe the Fitzster will validate that 60 mil contract (i hope).........either way would love to see Logan Thomas or Kirk Cousins aboard next year....

 

Barkley scares me as I think back on the USC Qb's lately........Sanchez, Rob Johnson, Marinovich, Carson Palmer***pre injury was good.

 

no Cali QB's plz..had enough of them

[Orton's Arm]

Losman wasn't helped out by circumstance, that is true. On the other hand, he is nowhere close to being as good a player as those other 3. I mean he can't even find a job as a backup and its not like there aren't teams totally desperate at the position. Want more examples? John McCargo is nowhere close to being as good a player as Ngata, either. Posluzny can at least get on the field, but he isn't as talented as Patrick Willis. If the board is set with groups of players as "equals" but your team is always drafting the Maybins of these elite groups, something is very wrong. My point was simply to echo my signature line. The Bills drafting was terrible for a decade. Almost as if they wanted to suck. But that's not to say they didn't have other problems as well.

 

Edit: With regards to Losman, they also felt that his group was better than all the QBs coming out in the next class. So, they had Losman rated higher than Aaron Rodgers.

 

I mentioned Posluzny above, but I don't think that is quite the same. It is one thing to draft players that can play, albeit maybe not quite at the level you project them to be as a scout. It is quite another thing to get your projections completely upside down and project guys that cannot play as possible future Hall of Famers.

Very solid post!

 

The fact the Bills had Losman rated higher than Aaron Rodgers is sad; especially considering it had been part of a larger pattern of failed talent evaluation. Whitner over Cutler, McCargo over Mangold . . .

[CarolinaBill]

So

well, for starters, you're completely wrong about Smith. Secondly, the guy you have in you sig that you apparently want in Buffalo appears to have some character issues, and third, when comparred head to head, Smith is clearly superior.

 

But, if that wasnt enough, i believe they both play in the big 12 now, so lets just see how it goes this yr.

[Charles Romes]

The problem with the building the lines up first model is that it's hard to suck enough to draft a franchise qb.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

well, for starters, you're completely wrong about Smith. Secondly, the guy you have in you sig that you apparently want in Buffalo appears to have some character issues, and third, when comparred head to head, Smith is clearly superior.

 

But, if that wasnt enough, i believe they both play in the big 12 now, so lets just see how it goes this yr.

 

get real Pachall will be a way better NFL QB than Smith.

[CarolinaBill]

get real Pachall will be a way better NFL QB than Smith.

based on what, certainly not the stats

as of today, Smith has the edge in numbers, experience, athleticism

the only edge pachall has is height and character concerns, i'm sure if they had a blunt smoking contest your boy would win easily, but right now, nothing suggest pachall is better than Smith.

Just admit that you made an assumption about smith that was wrong. everybody has their guy they like, and thats ok, but you gotta come with FACTS if you're gonna traah somebody

[section122]

I guessing you don't follow the game too closely, if you're asking that question

 

Mallett seems to be doing just fine, and has plenty of time to develop

 

(I doubt he's under any pressure to replace any time soon)

 

Link -Ryan Mallett makes impact; Auspicious outing by apprentice QB (Boston Herald)

 

 

Try watching him tonite against the Giants, and judge for yourself

That article was clearly a ball washing. They talk about how great he was and how well he engineered 3 scoring drives. Dude went 10-20 one of the completions they give him credit for is one Branch had to scoop off of his shoestrings. Sounds an awful lot like they are going to try and trade him to some sucker team after they have sufficiently built the hype.

I like the guy and I wish he was pushing Fitz.. The Bills could have drafted him in the 3rd round last year (we got Sheppard instead) and I also seem to recall rumors that the Pats had him on the trading block. Just another addition to the list of players that got away although he is still unproven at this point.

See what I mean Senator. This guy is buying the hype and surprise the pats* are willing to deal him

 

So

get real Pachall will be a way better NFL QB than Smith.

Barbarian Barbarian Barbarian you're better than this. Usually your arguments have some basis and knowledge in them. Teen Insight is dissapointed with your arguing style here....

 

Pachall may be better than Smith in the long run but the odds are against him. The stats certainly don't back it up. Add to the fact that Buddy is on record as avoiding character concern guys and there is no way Pachall ends up on the Bills. Admitted to smoking weed, doing cocaine and e?! How do you want this guy on your football team or start a crusade for him?! I'm sure he'd be cool to hang out/party with but come on man...........

[Rockinon]

Somehow I think you guys will still be too busy with this subject and miss out as the Bills make a legitimate run at the playoffs this year.

[djp14150]

I'd keep an eye on Nick Foles in Philadelphia.

 

Given Philadelphia history of QBs who cant do anything outside of Philadelphia's offense---thanks but not thanks.

 

Somehow I think you guys will still be too busy with this subject and miss out as the Bills make a legitimate run at the playoffs this year.

 

Its a fair question to talk about.

 

Personally I dont believe a rookie QB can come in and win---history doesnt support it. History also supports if the QB sits on the bench for a yr or two when they come out they are much better because of it.

 

Yes I think Buffalo should be looking at a future QB--not necessarily one for 2013---but one for maybe 2015.

 

If you look at the team if they perform how we believe the biggest needs to be addressed in the top 3 rounds will be QB, LB, and a UFA position loss.

 

Lets say Buffalo makes the playoffs but is out in the wild card round...their pick would be low 20s. Some forcasts have the Oklahoma QB landing around that spot.

[Maury Ballstein]

Somehow I think you guys will still be too busy with this subject and miss out as the Bills make a legitimate run at the playoffs this year.

 

Don't get defensive because the guy in your avatar has everyone talking about needing a qb..............."it is what it is" as they say..........the bearded 7th rounder from Harvard needs to prove himself to all.

 

I love all these posts how QB's drafted after 2nd round always fail......but we are just fine with a 7th rounder with a 13-40ish career record......this post has merit due to that fact..............we are all pulling for him..........but all have logical doubts as well

[Buffalo Barbarian]

based on what, certainly not the stats

as of today, Smith has the edge in numbers, experience, athleticism

the only edge pachall has is height and character concerns, i'm sure if they had a blunt smoking contest your boy would win easily, but right now, nothing suggest pachall is better than Smith.

Just admit that you made an assumption about smith that was wrong. everybody has their guy they like, and thats ok, but you gotta come with FACTS if you're gonna traah somebody

 

Stats don't mean jack in that spread offense that is nothing like a NFL spread. You need to look past the stats and see what they will be in the league, Casey an elite QB and Smith a WR or Wildcat QB. If you think he's the next RG3 think again.

 

That article was clearly a ball washing. They talk about how great he was and how well he engineered 3 scoring drives. Dude went 10-20 one of the completions they give him credit for is one Branch had to scoop off of his shoestrings. Sounds an awful lot like they are going to try and trade him to some sucker team after they have sufficiently built the hype.

 

See what I mean Senator. This guy is buying the hype and surprise the pats* are willing to deal him

 

 

 

Barbarian Barbarian Barbarian you're better than this. Usually your arguments have some basis and knowledge in them. Teen Insight is dissapointed with your arguing style here....

 

Pachall may be better than Smith in the long run but the odds are against him. The stats certainly don't back it up. Add to the fact that Buddy is on record as avoiding character concern guys and there is no way Pachall ends up on the Bills. Admitted to smoking weed, doing cocaine and e?! How do you want this guy on your football team or start a crusade for him?! I'm sure he'd be cool to hang out/party with but come on man...........

 

Just like every one dissed Tannehill Pachall will do the same but he has more talent than Tannehill

 

The Bills may not draft him but that wouldn't surprise me considering the way have gotten their QBs so far.

[CarolinaBill]

Stats don't mean jack in that spread offense that is nothing like a NFL spread. You need to look past the stats and see what they will be in the league, Casey an elite QB and Smith a WR or Wildcat QB.

It sounds like you just have this preconcieved notion that Smith is a runner first, which is wrong. The guy is a pocket passer with excepent arm strength. He's certainly not a wildcat qb or wr prospect. Frankly, it seems that you're stereotyping the black qb here, which couldnt be further from the truth. If Pachall is your guy thats fine, but stereotypical blanket statements likethe ones you've used just make you look bad.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I think if Fitz flames out this year, Buddy will offer draft picks as necessary to trade up and get the guy they want.

 

I think if Fitz lights it up this year, Buddy will still offer draft picks as necessary to draft the QB they want.

Nix has been quoted more than once as saying if you wait until you need a QB to draft one, you're in trouble.

 

1. Trade up to get the guy they want- They used this method to acquire Losman as by trading up to get second first round choice they nabbed Losman who was judged by the NFL consensus to be a shade behind the top 3 QB choices that year (Eli Manning and others) but almost certainly a better prospect than any of the QBs likely to go in the first round the next draft.

 

As it was this method failed either because the Bills braintrust failed to make a good assessment , or our coaches were not good at developing talent. or the Bills succumbed to media and some loud fan pressure and rushed him along or whatever.

 

I think the bottomline is that the Bills are unlikely to be able to properly develop a first day pick into our franchise QB.

 

2. Use a middlin pick to get a guy who is not top tier but looks good to them=

 

They used this method to get Edwards when he fail to round #3 and Bill Walsh recommended him. This method also failed for some combination of the reasons stated above.

 

Again, I think the bottomline is that it seems unlikely to me the media and fan base here will have the patience to properly train any pick we make in the first half of the draft.

 

"That was then, this is now" Losman and Edwards were drafted in an era with a long, dismal history of drafting crappy players ahead of good ones. The list goes on and on - McCargo, Maybin, etc etc.

The team sucked because the overall talent evaluation sucked. If the Bills 2012 draft class proves out, we may have turned the corner there.

 

Fortunately for all of us, the patience of the media and the fan base (and their opinions) will have no bearing on how Chix and Nailey run the team

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Don't get defensive because the guy in your avatar has everyone talking about needing a qb..............."it is what it is" as they say..........the bearded 7th rounder from Harvard needs to prove himself to all.

 

I love all these posts how QB's drafted after 2nd round always fail......but we are just fine with a 7th rounder with a 13-40ish career record......this post has merit due to that fact..............we are all pulling for him..........but all have logical doubts as well

 

Ryan, you seem to know something about football and to make good points sometimes, and your good points would show better if you could get over the "draft position = destiny" argument and the thought that W-L record is a suitable QB metric. VY's draft position and college wins didn't help him once he came to the NFL and his team's wins didn't help him once he moved to a different team. And Tom Brady's draft position in the 7th round doesn't hurt him in the NFL. Most 7 round QBs don't stay in the league, let alone build better stats and stay longer than QBs who were drafted well ahead of him. QB who stay in the league have shown something, regardless of where they were drafted.

 

You may have logical doubts about Fitz, it's totally reasonable based upon his play....just as it's reasonable to have doubts about any QB who hasn't been consistent in his career and who has made too many mistakes (INTs) last year, but seriously - why keep coughing up that tired old crap about Fitz's college and draft position and the W-L record of the bad TEAMS he's played on? It doesn't prove anything about his NFL caliber. Fitz has shown he's a capable mid-rank NFL starter. There are plenty of QB from "name" college programs who drafted higher who haven't done as well.

 

Quiz question for you: Who are Frye, Walter, Green, Orton, Lefors, Orlovsky, McPherson, Anderson, Kilian, and Cassel?

 

It's totally reasonable to want the Bills to have a top-tier QB rather than a capable mid-rank NFL starter, and to doubt whether Fitz can become the former from the latter, and you don't have to go all repetitively rabid about silly stuff like draft position and college affiliation to make those points

 

This is a good conversation. Up until now, I was happy with Nix not using a pick on a QB. There were bigger holes to fill.

 

But I really hope we take a QB in 2013. I like Fitz and he's better than some Bills QBs in recent memory. But he's no Jim Kelly and not in the Top Ten of the NFL today. I think the rest of the roster is strong enough now that QB becomes a draft weekend priority - and I hope Nix sees it the same way.

 

This.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Hopeful

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Agreed..See the same that I posted in another thread...

 

Year: QBs picked before Bills Pick : QBs picked after Bills pick (in 1st Round)

2012: Luck, Griffin Tannehill | Weeden

2011: Newton | Locker, Gabbert, Ponder

2010: Bradford, | Tebow

2009: Stafford, Sanchez | Freeman

2008: Ryan | Flacco

 

2007: Russell | Brady Quinn

2006: Young | Leinart, Cutler

2005: Smith | Rodgers, Campbell

2004: Manning, Rivers, Rothelisberger, | Losman

 

I will stop here... The bottom line is the QBs that have been picked after the Bills pick in the 1st round have all been crap except for Flacco, Rodgers and Cutler...We definitely should have picked up Cutler when we had the chance, but that is the year Marv and Dick blew it up.. Of course, the situation was also that the Bills still hadn't given Losman a decent chance to start. The same with Rodgers. Rest of those years, the QBs that are franchise QBs in Manning, Rivers, Rothelisberger, Ryan, Stafford and Newton were all long gone. Remember these players were also drafted in an era where besides doling out many draft picks, the team also had to sign them to 30-50M guaranteed contracts....The Bills were in no position to do that.

 

Good post, Ganesh.

 

I kinda dispute the "QB picked after us have all been crap except Flacco, Rodgers, and Cutler. I think Freeman is a very good QB, and Campbell is a solid QB, not crap.

And of course, the jury is still out on Weedon, Locker, and Ponder.

 

A point worth looking at is "what about the quality of the QB picked in the 1st round before the Bills picked? Leaving aside 2011 and 2012, couldn't you say "except for Stafford, Ryan, and that terrific 2004 draft class, all the QB picked ahead of us have all been crap" just as well?

[mob16151]

Given Philadelphia history of QBs who cant do anything outside of Philadelphia's offense---thanks but not thanks.

 

Yea But Foles is bigger, and has better arm strength, and a quicker release then,Kolb and company.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

It sounds like you just have this preconcieved notion that Smith is a runner first, which is wrong. The guy is a pocket passer with excepent arm strength. He's certainly not a wildcat qb or wr prospect. Frankly, it seems that you're stereotyping the black qb here, which couldnt be further from the truth. If Pachall is your guy thats fine, but stereotypical blanket statements likethe ones you've used just make you look bad.

 

No I've watched him play in that system.

 

I didn't say anything about Logan Thomas bc he's gona be a Pocket passer Geno Smith is not.

[Maury Ballstein]

Ryan, you seem to know something about football and to make good points sometimes, and your good points would show better if you could get over the "draft position = destiny" argument and the thought that W-L record is a suitable QB metric. VY's draft position and college wins didn't help him once he came to the NFL and his team's wins didn't help him once he moved to a different team. And Tom Brady's draft position in the 7th round doesn't hurt him in the NFL. Most 7 round QBs don't stay in the league, let alone build better stats and stay longer than QBs who were drafted well ahead of him. QB who stay in the league have shown something, regardless of where they were drafted.

 

You may have logical doubts about Fitz, it's totally reasonable based upon his play....just as it's reasonable to have doubts about any QB who hasn't been consistent in his career and who has made too many mistakes (INTs) last year, but seriously - why keep coughing up that tired old crap about Fitz's college This.and draft position and the W-L record of the bad TEAMS he's played on? It doesn't prove anything about his NFL caliber. Fitz has shown he's a capable mid-rank NFL starter. There are plenty of QB from "name" college programs who drafted higher who haven't done as well.

 

Quiz question for you: Who are Frye, Walter, Green, Orton, Lefors, Orlovsky, McPherson, Anderson, Kilian, and Cassel?

 

It's totally reasonable to want the Bills to have a top-tier QB rather than a capable mid-rank NFL starter, and to doubt whether Fitz can become the former from the latter, and you don't have to go all repetitively rabid about silly stuff like draft position and college affiliation to make those points

 

 

 

 

 

I was trying to make a logical point and yes i understand I am at the forefront of Fitz doubters which some disagree with(it gets old for me also, but I cannot stand the apologists who think hes amazing and should not be doubted) . I could care less about draft position but when others and myself talk about drafting qb's like Cousins, Mallett, even Colt Mccoy(i stand alone on this guy) everyone raves about how qb's drafted after the 2nd round are a lottery ticket and most are a terrible waste of time. IMO draft position is irrelevant look at Stevie and Brady for god sakes.

 

For your names I see Charlie Frye, Andrew Walter, Kyle Orton, Dan Levevre etc......Whats the answer to the riddle though? Who are they ? Scrubby Qb's drafted in 2nd 3rd round?

[Orton's Arm]

I was trying to make a logical point and yes i understand I am at the forefront of Fitz doubters which some disagree with(it gets old for me also, but I cannot stand the apologists who think hes amazing and should not be doubted) . I could care less about draft position but when others and myself talk about drafting qb's like Cousins, Mallett, even Colt Mccoy(i stand alone on this guy) everyone raves about how qb's drafted after the 2nd round are a lottery ticket and most are a terrible waste of time. IMO draft position is irrelevant look at Stevie and Brady for god sakes.

 

For your names I see Charlie Frye, Andrew Walter, Kyle Orton, Dan Levevre etc......Whats the answer to the riddle though? Who are they ? Scrubby Qb's drafted in 2nd 3rd round?

I think that you and I may have similar perspectives when it comes to Fitz. Where we may disagree is the part about draft position.

 

Sure, Tom Brady was drafted in the sixth round. But that was more than ten years ago. Since then, how many franchise QBs have been drafted in round 3 or later, or have been signed as UDFAs? I am aware of only one: Matt Schaub. Even if you want to talk about franchise QBs from round 2, you have Drew Brees (drafted more than ten years ago), and not much else. If I'm forgetting someone, let me know.

 

Even if you look at round 1 QBs, those who turned out to be franchise have generally been off the board by the time the Bills have picked.

 

I genuinely think that if the Bills are going to get the QB situation squared away, they're probably going to need to use a first round draft pick. And they're probably going to need to trade up.