John Adams Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Hey! Here's a crazy thought; instead of spending billions of dollars and wasting time on finding a dumb particle, you work on a cure for cancer! If you're a teenager under 18, I forgive the idiocy of this statement. Otherwise, this is stupid on more levels than it's reasonable to explain to you or the 3 people who agreed with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Perhaps you're confused on the teens idea. For most cancers including my very own. Chemo & radiation is no CURE! In Fact far from it dude. Confused? Look it up and learn. My sister performs cancer treatments. I didnt mean to offend anyone with that statement so I apologize if I did. My point was that its not like were sitting on our ass with regards to treating cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Is that sarcasm or did I actually come up with something insightful? Straight up sarcasm. Should we not work on treatments/cures for paralysis until we get cancer cured? Should we not study earthquakes until we get cancer cured? There are a lot of things that need to be studied further across all sciences. What you said is equivalent to "The Sabres shouldn't sign any more players until the Bills win the Super Bowl." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optometric Insight Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 OK, timeout. Everyone has taking my statement way out of context. I realize that cancer isn't the only thing out there that needs to be studied on. The idea of the post I made was to express my opinion on wasting money on minute science. Spending billions, BILLIONS, of dollars on discovering some sort of "God particle" is dumb to me, especially when there more pressing things that need to be invested in: cancer, earlier warning devices for earthquakes, forensics, malaria, human starvation, aid for drought victims, saving jobs for police officers and fire fighters, jobs in general, overpopulation problems, new medicines, the list goes on and on. Cancer was the first thing that popped into my head because of events that are happening around me. Maybe I should have put "diseases" or "other things that could help the problems we have now" but I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 OK, timeout. Everyone has taking my statement way out of context. Welcome to TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 OK, timeout. Everyone has taking my statement way out of context. I realize that cancer isn't the only thing out there that needs to be studied on. The idea of the post I made was to express my opinion on wasting money on minute science. Spending billions, BILLIONS, of dollars on discovering some sort of "God particle" is dumb to me, especially when there more pressing things that need to be invested in: cancer, earlier warning devices for earthquakes, forensics, malaria, human starvation, aid for drought victims, saving jobs for police officers and fire fighters, jobs in general, overpopulation problems, new medicines, the list goes on and on. Cancer was the first thing that popped into my head because of events that are happening around me. Maybe I should have put "diseases" or "other things that could help the problems we have now" but I didn't. Let's briefly put aside the fact that there isn't some big general coffer of money where everybody in the world goes to fix problems (I hope you don't honestly think this has a direct inverse effect on funds available toward malaria prevention). You really believe that burgeoning frontiers of scientific advancement should be ignored so that we can put band-aids on more pressing issues? And what do you mean by "wasting money on minute science"? Sub-atomic particles are unimportant because they're physically small? Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 My sister performs cancer treatments. I didnt mean to offend anyone with that statement so I apologize if I did. My point was that its not like were sitting on our ass with regards to treating cancer. I think we all understood your point Captain. From a technical standpoint, chemotherapy & radiation are treatments not cures, but your main point is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 OK, timeout. Everyone has taking my statement way out of context. I realize that cancer isn't the only thing out there that needs to be studied on. The idea of the post I made was to express my opinion on wasting money on minute science. Spending billions, BILLIONS, of dollars on discovering some sort of "God particle" is dumb to me, especially when there more pressing things that need to be invested in: cancer, earlier warning devices for earthquakes, forensics, malaria, human starvation, aid for drought victims, saving jobs for police officers and fire fighters, jobs in general, overpopulation problems, new medicines, the list goes on and on. Cancer was the first thing that popped into my head because of events that are happening around me. Maybe I should have put "diseases" or "other things that could help the problems we have now" but I didn't. I get what you're saying, but also consider by further understanding the so-called "minute science," there is the possibility of applying what has been learned about quantum physics in other areas. Knowledge is power- you never when it will come in handy. Oh, and maybe someone (ahem, Tom) can help me understand how the HIggs Boson is attracted to other particles. I realize gravity isn't totally understood, but isn't the main tenet that attraction is based on mass? So if there is no mass prior to an interaction, what gives? Feel free to call me an idiotTM for asking a question that you already deferred to Feynman, but I'm just hoping you've got another clever analogy to dumb it down for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) OK, timeout. Everyone has taking my statement way out of context. I realize that cancer isn't the only thing out there that needs to be studied on. The idea of the post I made was to express my opinion on wasting money on minute science. Spending billions, BILLIONS, of dollars on discovering some sort of "God particle" is dumb to me, especially when there more pressing things that need to be invested in: cancer, earlier warning devices for earthquakes, forensics, malaria, human starvation, aid for drought victims, saving jobs for police officers and fire fighters, jobs in general, overpopulation problems, new medicines, the list goes on and on. Cancer was the first thing that popped into my head because of events that are happening around me. Maybe I should have put "diseases" or "other things that could help the problems we have now" but I didn't. Wouldn't it be ironic if someday one of these studies of minute science actually cured cancer, or atleast solved part of the equation Or earthquakes, or malaria or.... Well, you get what I'm saying. Without pushing frontiers, you never discover the unknown and who knows what that unknown holds. Edited July 2, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Sheldon knew it all along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Wouldn't it be ironic if someday one of these studies of minute science actually cured cancer, or atleast solved part of the equation Why did biologists ever waste their time studying viruses? They're so minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optometric Insight Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 You really believe that burgeoning frontiers of scientific advancement should be ignored so that we can put band-aids on more pressing issues? Yes, it is my reasoning to take on the more pressing need first. Should you pay the bills or get luxuries? Pay the bills. Same thing here. Should you save people or interest people? And what do you mean by "wasting money on minute science"? Minute-= small, unimportant. Sub-atomic particles are unimportant because they're physically small? Huh? Never said sub-atomic particles are unimportant. They have a strong influence on our lives and we wouldn't have many things if we didn't study on them. This "God Particle" is unimportant; so what if we discovered it? What effect does it have in our lives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Cool. Basically...in modern physics, every physical property can be represented by a "field", that itself consists of "gauge particles" that mediate the effect of the field. Most well-known example is an electric field: two electrically charge particles feel a force from each other that's actually the recoil from a photon exchange (particle one spits out a photon, recoils in the opposite direction. Particle two receives the photon, recoils in the direction it came from. Analogous to you and me standing on skateboards, and I throw a bowling ball at you and you catch it). So the photon mediates the electromagnetic field. (And yes, my explanation isn't perfect - the "gauge" photons are "virtual", not real, and particles can recoil in all sorts of weird directions. But it's close enough, trust me.) The Higgs boson does basically the same thing for whatever field causes "mass". For a particle to have "mass", it has to exchange Higgs bosons with the "mass field" (in this case, it's easier to think of it as the field "reaching out" and grabbing whatever particle has mass. The field "reaches out" with the Higgs boson.) And again, the Higgs boson is "virtual" (i.e. doesn't really exist), until you smash **** together at high enough energies to "make it real". If you want any better an explanation than that...there's some books by Feynman that are decent (search Amazon for "Feynman QED".) But it's a really weird, counter-intuitive field...that makes perfect sense to me, which probably says a lot about why I am who I am. Medical imaging (ANY medical imaging), microsurgery... So all we get out of this crap is a new event at the X games? A mash up of skateboarding and bowling? That is not worth the money and won't pull ratings IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yes, it is my reasoning to take on the more pressing need first. Should you pay the bills or get luxuries? Pay the bills. Same thing here. Should you save people or interest people? Minute-= small, unimportant. Never said sub-atomic particles are unimportant. They have a strong influence on our lives and we wouldn't have many things if we didn't study on them. This "God Particle" is unimportant; so what if we discovered it? What effect does it have in our lives? Sage mentioned earlier virus as a small thing that ended up being a big deal in our lives. We used to think smell was the cause of disease. A little air freshener in a hospital should do the trick. I realize your young, but small doesn't = unimportant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) This "God Particle" is unimportant; so what if we discovered it? What effect does it have in our lives? How would you know now? That's the point. Chemotherapy and Radiation therapy weren't the result of someone looking for cancer treatments. They became common place because of someone thinking outside the box and applying scientific discoveries in a novel way. EDIT: These treatments are the result if someone looking for cancer treatments. But chemotherapy has its roots in chemical warfare, and radiation therapy was a result of an application of x-rays, which were discovered by - you guessed it- a physicist. A poor choice of words before, but my point remains, the more we know about everything, the more we can use that knowledge in unexpected ways. Edited July 2, 2012 by uncle flap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Never said sub-atomic particles are unimportant. They have a strong influence on our lives and we wouldn't have many things if we didn't study on them. This "God Particle" is unimportant; so what if we discovered it? What effect does it have in our lives? We'll never know unless we study it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 OK, timeout. Everyone has taking my statement way out of context. I realize that cancer isn't the only thing out there that needs to be studied on. The idea of the post I made was to express my opinion on wasting money on minute science. Spending billions, BILLIONS, of dollars on discovering some sort of "God particle" is dumb to me, especially when there more pressing things that need to be invested in: cancer, earlier warning devices for earthquakes, forensics, malaria, human starvation, aid for drought victims, saving jobs for police officers and fire fighters, jobs in general, overpopulation problems, new medicines, the list goes on and on. Cancer was the first thing that popped into my head because of events that are happening around me. Maybe I should have put "diseases" or "other things that could help the problems we have now" but I didn't. That is not the only thing the Collider has been built for. There are thousands of different experiments to be performed and discoveries to be made, from such a device. If you are worried about people wasting money, there are much better targets for criticism than Science (like spending Trillions on unjustified wars, for example). What they are doing at CERN very well may apply to (or help advance discoveries for) the rest of your wishlist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Yes, it is my reasoning to take on the more pressing need first. Should you pay the bills or get luxuries? Pay the bills. Same thing here. Should you save people or interest people? Minute-= small, unimportant. Never said sub-atomic particles are unimportant. They have a strong influence on our lives and we wouldn't have many things if we didn't study on them. This "God Particle" is unimportant; so what if we discovered it? What effect does it have in our lives? Lemme guess...you also think the Apollo program was a giant waste of money, because all we got from it was "a few moon rocks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 My sister performs cancer treatments. I didnt mean to offend anyone with that statement so I apologize if I did. My point was that its not like were sitting on our ass with regards to treating cancer. Understood, I'm not offended I have read your posts so I know how you write. Ironically I had just hung up with a oncologist.Also,I am a tad sensitive to the problems of cancer. I do understand all the work going on in the field, I'm sure your sister does great work. A bit off topic but I also have a warranted mistrust in Big Pharmas goals in not only treating cancers but a lot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Hey! Here's a crazy thought; instead of spending billions of dollars and wasting time on finding a dumb particle, you work on a cure for cancer! I'd rather they spend money on solving teen insanity, Of course it will take 10+ years and then the teens will no longer be teens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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