Chef Jim Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 If a business fails, it fails. i never said there is no capital loss. i said when a business is operating and profitable, the surplus value will eventually and quickly grow past the cost of capital and interest just like any other loan. this is not a new concept, this is not made up, this has been around for 150 years. its a proven mathematical fact. So a capital loss is a business failure? This was asked before and you didn't answer it then. What do you do for a living? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 So a capital loss is a business failure? This was asked before and you didn't answer it then. What do you do for a living? Chef, just because you know how to stir the pot doesn't mean you need to do it. He's a financial genius, whose CG experiemce has allowed him to figure out what's best for the world. Get with the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 the names are different, not the concept. its called being synonymous.... what a !@#$ing idiot! Uh...no. They are different, and things that are different are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Uh...no. They are different, and things that are different are not the same. The difference brings about the sameness if it's hammers, land, labor or capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 the names are different, not the concept. its called being synonymous.... what a !@#$ing idiot! I'm sure lots of things seem synonymous when you have a tenuous grasp on the concepts, but to the rest of us using those terms interchangeably is to say cat is synonymous to dog which is synonymous to broccoli. So which will it be this time? Are you going to claim that you never said interest and capital gains were synonymous or will I get another unrelated, disjointed rant on how land isn't productive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) I'm sure lots of things seem synonymous when you have a tenuous grasp on the concepts, but to the rest of us using those terms interchangeably is to say cat is synonymous to dog which is synonymous to broccoli. So which will it be this time? Are you going to claim that you never said interest and capital gains were synonymous or will I get another unrelated, disjointed rant on how land isn't productive? I think it's better to say that because capital gains are made up of interest then capital gains and interest are the same is like saying that because pizza contains pepperoni that pepperoni and pizza are the same. Yeah, yeah I know, it's all about food with me. Edited May 31, 2012 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 So a capital loss is a business failure? This was asked before and you didn't answer it then. What do you do for a living? no. are you really this dense? i mean really? when your selling price is constantly less than your purchasing price, you will eventually fail... Uh...no. They are different, and things that are different are not the same. no really they are the same... all economists will tell you this. its a mathematical fact. I'm sure lots of things seem synonymous when you have a tenuous grasp on the concepts, but to the rest of us using those terms interchangeably is to say cat is synonymous to dog which is synonymous to broccoli. So which will it be this time? Are you going to claim that you never said interest and capital gains were synonymous or will I get another unrelated, disjointed rant on how land isn't productive? yes, land is not productive after the surplus value overtakes capital value... its the same as debt. its literally the equivalent of finding new land that nobody has and just sitting there. hey, maybe you can eat the grass?? lol I'm sure lots of things seem synonymous when you have a tenuous grasp on the concepts, but to the rest of us using those terms interchangeably is to say cat is synonymous to dog which is synonymous to broccoli. So which will it be this time? Are you going to claim that you never said interest and capital gains were synonymous or will I get another unrelated, disjointed rant on how land isn't productive? i said indefinite interest and capital gains are the same... Capital gains may refer to "investment income" that arises in relation to real assets, such as property; financial assets, such as shares/stocks or bonds; and intangible assets such as goodwill. --- wiki :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 when your selling price is constantly less than your purchasing price, So is that your definition of a capital loss? Dude you've been busted. No one is this stupid. You win Troll of the Year award. Congrats. I just can't belive Tom has spent this much time with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 what you right wing hacks dont want to admit, either because you know capitalism is really welfare for the rich, or you are too stupid, is that surplus value is exploitation. So is that your definition of a capital loss? Dude you've been busted. No one is this stupid. You win Troll of the Year award. Congrats. I just can't belive Tom has spent this much time with you. you suffer capital losses when you sell things for less than what you bought them for. this can happen for various reasons. now go listen to rush limbaugh you !@#$tard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I think MDP was gnawing on the window sill when Sesame Street was on. "One of these things is not like the other..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) I think MDP was gnawing on the window sill when Sesame Street was on. "One of these things is not like the other..." the very fact that you have brietbart as your pic shows me you are not very bright... i wouldnt look up to these idiots on this board man. they are rejecting facts... like econ 101 facts... Edited May 31, 2012 by MARCELL DAREUS POWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 the very fact that you have brietbart as your pic shows me you are not very bright... i wouldnt look up to these idiots on this board man. they are rejecting facts... like econ 101 facts... Did they ever figure out what keeled him over and made him buy the farm? Never caught the results of the autopsy... Was it smelly hippies that did him in or was it friendly fire, Ann Coulter's "eau de toilette of skank." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Did they ever figure out what keeled him over and made him buy the farm? Never caught the results of the autopsy... Was it smelly hippies that did him in or was it friendly fire, Ann Coulter's "eau de toilette of skank." Heart disease. Had a family background of it and had a few episodes earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Did they ever figure out what keeled him over and made him buy the farm? Never caught the results of the autopsy... Was it smelly hippies that did him in or was it friendly fire, Ann Coulter's "eau de toilette of skank." it was the smell of ann coulter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjamie12 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 what you right wing hacks dont want to admit, either because you know capitalism is really welfare for the rich, or you are too stupid, is that surplus value is exploitation. What you call 'exploitation' is the very engine by which our living standards continue to rise. It is also called 'incentive'. Without the investment incentive or 'exploitation' in your terms, rising living standards grind to a halt. Stop quoting books, internet sites or whatever it is you're quoting and THINK about the practical implications of implementing your economic system where employees vote themselves the profits of a company. Just think about it. It may not seem 'fair' to you, but it is, most assuredly, the best way to increase prosperity and living standards for ALL. Without this incentive, Bill Gates doesn't drop out of Harvard and start Microsoft. He goes to work for IBM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 What you call 'exploitation' is the very engine by which our living standards continue to rise. It is also called 'incentive'. Without the investment incentive or 'exploitation' in your terms, rising living standards grind to a halt. Stop quoting books, internet sites or whatever it is you're quoting and THINK about the practical implications of implementing your economic system where employees vote themselves the profits of a company. Just think about it. It may not seem 'fair' to you, but it is, most assuredly, the best way to increase prosperity and living standards for ALL. Without this incentive, Bill Gates doesn't drop out of Harvard and start Microsoft. He goes to work for IBM. No, markets and profit have given incentive and raised living standards, along with the labor wars in the 20 and 30s. the greatest source is modernity and post newton science. literally everything you said had nothing to do with what i was talking about, which is surplus value... and bill gates idea would have come together regardless. he would have sold it for profit. again, you ignore surplus value and cannot differentiate the idea that im for markets and profit, just not people getting a free ride... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 The clearest evidence yet that you're an incurable narcissist is your believe that you can possibly make MDP think. Yes, they are. Before you respond, take half an hour and think about it first: Yes. They are. So....when I attempt to make him think before posting...I'm a narcissist...but...when you do it... Unrecognized, yet blatant, double standards...is indicative of...is it narcissism, or egomania? Perhaps we should ask Chef. Yup. Egomaniacs oftentimes hate themselves. What happens if you don't care enough to hate yourself? Or, what happens if you are just mostly bored with yourself, but don't care enough to do anything about it? no retard, i said 5$ of risk for someone who makes 10$ is more of a risk than someone with 5 million. they have more resources, capital, and info. i never said all loans are risk free, i said some are. and some are less than others... and the amount of risk is independent of profits. the reason you get profits is because of intelligence, skill, labor, innovation, efficiency,wealth, environment, etc. not risk. the reason you win the horse race is because of calculation and a little luck, not because of a risk. people take all kinds of risks everyday, this doesnt create profit or say you have the right to profit. even when labor takes risk on, thats not why they get profits nor is it the reason they have a right to those profits, its because they workded for it! the reason you owe money to someone when they give you a loan is not because of risk, its because they worked for it... my complaint is that capital is not treated as a loan, when in principle its the same thing. you labor for money, and you labor, (in some cases), for capital. this creates indefinite interest, ie, unpaid labor... because of surplus value, ie unpaid labor. its indefinite interest.... what an idiot... :wallbash: This has to be the dumbest post you've had in this thread. Imagine that for a second...given the "body of work" of your idiocy in this thread. If I was your accounting teacher, I'd kick your ass. When do you take accounting? Well, then you will learn this: capital creates equity, lending creates assets(loans). They are NOT the same thing. I am not here to educate you, your ****ty professors are. Perhaps it's time for you to ask them why they are doing such a poor job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 yes, land is not productive after the surplus value overtakes capital value... its the same as debt. its literally the equivalent of finding new land that nobody has and just sitting there. hey, maybe you can eat the grass?? lol i said indefinite interest and capital gains are the same... Capital gains may refer to "investment income" that arises in relation to real assets, such as property; financial assets, such as shares/stocks or bonds; and intangible assets such as goodwill. --- wiki :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash Thank you for defining a term that I'm already familiar with, but capital gains was never a point of confusion. Indefinite interest has caused some problems though. Probably because its not a real financial or economic term. Indefinite interest has yet to appear in any of the finance, accounting or economic books in my collection. Your sacred Wikipedia seems to have missed that term as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 So....when I attempt to make him think before posting...I'm a narcissist...but...when you do it... Unrecognized, yet blatant, double standards...is indicative of...is it narcissism, or egomania? Perhaps we should ask Chef. When I do it, I'm being an abusive prick. I know he's not going to think. I'm just using a rhetorical device to highlight that fact. you suffer capital losses when you sell things for less than what you bought them for. this can happen for various reasons. Like...depreciation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 So....when I attempt to make him think before posting...I'm a narcissist...but...when you do it... Unrecognized, yet blatant, double standards...is indicative of...is it narcissism, or egomania? Perhaps we should ask Chef. What happens if you don't care enough to hate yourself? Or, what happens if you are just mostly bored with yourself, but don't care enough to do anything about it? This has to be the dumbest post you've had in this thread. Imagine that for a second...given the "body of work" of your idiocy in this thread. If I was your accounting teacher, I'd kick your ass. When do you take accounting? Well, then you will learn this: capital creates equity, lending creates assets(loans). They are NOT the same thing. I am not here to educate you, your ****ty professors are. Perhaps it's time for you to ask them why they are doing such a poor job. you are so !@#$ing dumb. labor creates all equity in capital, its called surplus value... otherwise machinery just sits there at market price... there is a difference between market equity in a house and equity in capital for the means of production. also one is created by yourself, the other is collective. again, when capital receives more and more for an undetermined time past what the capital value is worth, you are getting a reward for doing nothing... its simply unjustified hierarchy. its the exact same concept of someone giving you money and never being able to pay off interest, even if your new business is successful, that shareholder will have a 10% interest in all growing income. its a free ride! its how the kennedy family got so rich. they bought all the land in chicago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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